Aliens may destroy humanity to protect other civilizations

[ArtRosen]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/aug/18/aliens-destroy-humanity-protect-civilisations

It may not rank as the most compelling reason to curb greenhouse gases, but reducing our emissions might just save humanity from a pre-emptive alien attack, scientists claim.Watching from afar, extraterrestrial beings might view changes in Earth's atmosphere as symptomatic of a civilisation growing out of control – and take drastic action to keep us from becoming a more serious threat, the researchers explain.

This highly speculative scenario is one of several described by scientists at Nasa and Pennsylvania State University that, while considered unlikely, they say could play out were humans and alien life to make contact at some point in the future.

Shawn Domagal-Goldman of Nasa's Planetary Science Division and his colleagues compiled a list of plausible outcomes that could unfold in the aftermath of a close encounter, to help humanity "prepare for actual contact".

In their report, Would Contact with Extraterrestrials Benefit or Harm Humanity? A Scenario Analysis, the researchers divide alien contacts into three broad categories: beneficial, neutral or harmful.

Beneficial encounters ranged from the mere detection of extraterrestrial intelligence (ETI), for example through the interception of alien broadcasts, to contact with cooperative organisms that help us advance our knowledge and solve global problems such as hunger, poverty and disease.

[superjames1992]

[WeatherRusty]

http://www.guardian....t-civilisations

It may not rank as the most compelling reason to curb greenhouse gases, but reducing our emissions might just save humanity from a pre-emptive alien attack, scientists claim.Watching from afar, extraterrestrial beings might view changes in Earth's atmosphere as symptomatic of a civilisation growing out of control – and take drastic action to keep us from becoming a more serious threat, the researchers explain.

This highly speculative scenario is one of several described by scientists at Nasa and Pennsylvania State University that, while considered unlikely, they say could play out were humans and alien life to make contact at some point in the future.

Shawn Domagal-Goldman of Nasa's Planetary Science Division and his colleagues compiled a list of plausible outcomes that could unfold in the aftermath of a close encounter, to help humanity "prepare for actual contact".

In their report, Would Contact with Extraterrestrials Benefit or Harm Humanity? A Scenario Analysis, the researchers divide alien contacts into three broad categories: beneficial, neutral or harmful.

Beneficial encounters ranged from the mere detection of extraterrestrial intelligence (ETI), for example through the interception of alien broadcasts, to contact with cooperative organisms that help us advance our knowledge and solve global problems such as hunger, poverty and disease.

Scientists are rapidly developing the ability to determine the chemical make up of new found exo-planets circling distant stars. Finding O2 in an alien atmosphere would be a signature of possible life on those planets. If aliens are gazing at Earth who knows what they may think of the changing signature of our planet's atmosphere?

[BethesdaWX]

Scientists are rapidly developing the ability to determine the chemical make up of new found exo-planets circling distant stars. Finding O2 in an alien atmosphere would be a signature of possible life on those planets. If aliens are gazing at Earth who knows what they may think of the changing signature of our planet's atmosphere?

Do you expect to be taken seriously now? Clouds can't cause climate change, yet because CO2 has increased from 0.028% to 0.038% aliens are going to destroy us?

[Clifford]

Aliens watching from afar? How far away? 100 light years? 10,000 light years? They would most likely be seeing a view of Earth from before the 20^th century, if not before humanity was crawling out of the caves at the beginning of the Holocene.

Would they be able to discern the difference between the natural variation in CO₂ at the beginning of the Holocene vs the the variation caused by humanity?

They would more likely be able to eventually detect synthetic fluorocarbons in the atmosphere, or some other compound that is not normally found in the planet's atmosphere.

[BethesdaWX]

Aliens watching from afar? How far away? 100 light years? 10,000 light years? They would most likely be seeing a view of Earth from before the 20^th century, if not before humanity was crawling out of the caves at the beginning of the Holocene.

Would they be able to discern the difference between the natural variation in CO₂ at the beginning of the Holocene vs the the variation caused by humanity?

They would more likely be able to eventually detect synthetic fluorocarbons in the atmosphere, or some other compound that is not normally found in the planet's atmosphere.

Or how about the Dinosaurs...did Aliens wipe them out because of the high CO2 levels then? Or how about the snowball earth periods?

[skierinvermont]

Or how about the Dinosaurs...did Aliens wipe them out because of the high CO2 levels then? Or how about the snowball earth periods?

I think the argument is more that our CO2 emissions indicate we are a reckless and dangerous species.

This is just one of many many scenarios discussed.. so it seems kind of silly to make such a big deal out of it. Who knows what aliens will be like or what they will think of us so it seems reasonable to list any possible outcomes. I don't think anybody is arguing this is the most probable alien reaction.. since we have no idea what aliens will be like or what their purpose will be ... we have no idea what to expect.. this is just a range of hypothetical scenarios.

[ORH_wxman]

Aliens have no idea what we are doing unless they have come close to our solar system. As mentioned before, anything they see from their own solar (star) systems are from way back in the past.

[BethesdaWX]

I think the argument is more that our CO2 emissions indicate we are a reckless and dangerous species.

This is just one of many many scenarios discussed.. so it seems kind of silly to make such a big deal out of it. Who knows what aliens will be like or what they will think of us so it seems reasonable to list any possible outcomes. I don't think anybody is arguing this is the most probable alien reaction.. since we have no idea what aliens will be like or what their purpose will be ... we have no idea what to expect.. this is just a range of hypothetical scenarios.

Why do you think that? We need Fossil fuels to survivie as a society...and we'll need to transition sooner rather than later, probably Nuclear is the way to go now since we're running out of time to make a SUCCESSFUL transition from fossil fuels to renewable/efficient energy sources...such as Nuclear.

This article was written thru/by NASA...do they know that whatever they're seeing is from the timeframe of millions of millenia in the past??? How can they be so stupid/careless as to not know this/take this into account?

[cheetah440]

Do you expect to be taken seriously now? Clouds can't cause climate change, yet because CO2 has increased from 0.028% to 0.038% aliens are going to destroy us?

They jumped the shark years ago, but this is simply awesome to see.

[Amped]

Global warming means more alien attacks

[Sunny and Warm]

I think the argument is more that our CO2 emissions indicate we are a reckless and dangerous species.

This is just one of many many scenarios discussed.. so it seems kind of silly to make such a big deal out of it. Who knows what aliens will be like or what they will think of us so it seems reasonable to list any possible outcomes. I don't think anybody is arguing this is the most probable alien reaction.. since we have no idea what aliens will be like or what their purpose will be ... we have no idea what to expect.. this is just a range of hypothetical scenarios.

The problem is that NASA is spending taxpayer money on such farfetched ideas when we have precious few funds as it is. It's an insult to all USA taxpayers that this was even published considering our economy. NASA has certainly lost its way. It may be time to pull the plug on that agency and start anew. And I'm serious about that.

[ArtRosen]

Scientists are rapidly developing the ability to determine the chemical make up of new found exo-planets circling distant stars. Finding O2 in an alien atmosphere would be a signature of possible life on those planets. If aliens are gazing at Earth who knows what they may think of the changing signature of our planet's atmosphere?

That we're an evolving species? If aliens can travel faster than the speed of light, then I assume they went through some kind of "Industrial Revolution" which most likely caused pollution on their planet.

I think that there has to be a scale of what stage of development a species is at. Being around only about 10,000 years old, we're probably considered to be in our infancy and haven't even journeyed beyond our own planet yet. If an alien species can travel light years in an instant, I very much doubt they'd view a race of people that still uses gun powder and bullets and believes that our species just magically appeared one day because some supernatural being decided to create us 5,000 years ago, a threat. I think they would laugh at us at how limited we are and write us off as a lost cause.

[WxUSAF]

This article was written thru/by NASA...do they know that whatever they're seeing is from the timeframe of millions of millenia in the past??? How can they be so stupid/careless as to not know this/take this into account?

FALSE

From one of the co-authors of this: http://paleblueblog.org/post/9110304050/some-important-points-of-clarification?2b94a330

So here’s the thing. This isn’t a “NASA report.” It’s not work funded by NASA, nor is it work supported by NASA in other ways. It was just a fun paper written by a few friends, one of whom happens to have a NASA affiliation.

[WxUSAF]

The problem is that NASA is spending taxpayer money on such farfetched ideas when we have precious few funds as it is. It's an insult to all USA taxpayers that this was even published considering our economy. NASA has certainly lost its way.

The problem is you didn't take a couple minutes to find that this article WAS NOT funded in anyway by taxpayer dollars.

It may be time to pull the plug on that agency and start anew. And I'm serious about that.

Screw off

[Sunny and Warm]

The problem is you didn't take a couple minutes to find that this article WAS NOT funded in anyway by taxpayer dollars.

[/b]

Screw off

What is your problem? NASA is a wayward agency with no clear mandate regardless of this article. They dabble in Earth-related science repeatedly, which was not the original mandate. We have other agencies that can do that, and likely better than NASA.

[BethesdaWX]

FALSE

From one of the co-authors of this: http://paleblueblog....cation?2b94a330

Pardon me, report "TO" NASA, at least that is what the news article said. If they have it wrong its not my problem.

[BethesdaWX]

Doesn't change the fact this is a laughable paper considering aliens would just now be seeing the prehistoric age...

[WxUSAF]

NASA is a wayward agency with no clear mandate regardless of this article.

False

They dabble in Earth-related science repeatedly, which was not the original mandate.

Actually it was task #1 from NASA's founding.

http://www.nasa.gov/...y_We_29_prt.htm

It is instructive to recall the objectives for NASA that emerged in section 102 of the final Space Act:

1. The expansion of human knowledge of phenomena in the atmosphere and space;
2. The improvement of the usefulness, performance, speed, safety, and efficiency of aeronautical and space vehicles;
3. The development and operation of vehicles capable of carrying instruments, equipment, supplies, and living organisms through space;
4. The establishment of long-range studies of the potential benefits to be gained from, the opportunities for, and the problems involved in the utilization of aeronautical and space activities for peaceful and scientific purposes;
5. The preservation of the role of the United States as a leader in aeronautical and space science and technology and in the application thereof to the conduct of peaceful activities within and outside the atmosphere;
6. The making available to agencies directly concerned with national defense of discoveries that have military value or significance, and the furnishing by such agencies, to the civilian agency established to direct and control nonmilitary aeronautical and space activities, of information as to discoveries which have value or significance to that agency;
7. Cooperation by the United States with other nations and groups of nations in work done pursuant to this Act and in the peaceful application of the results thereof;
8. The most effective utilization of the scientific and engineering resources of the United States, with close cooperation among all interested agencies of the United States in order to avoid unnecessary duplication of effort, facilities and equipment

The Space Act has been amended many times since 1958 (see online reference below for details), but these goals have been little changed. In NASA’s Authorization Act for 1985 the expansion of human knowledge “of the Earth” was added to goal 1, reflecting increased concern about Earth resources and global climate change.

We have other agencies that can do that, and likely better than NASA.

Other agencies do it, but most of the pivotal discoveries have come from NASA. NASA launches and operates all the satellites. NASA gathers the data. And NASA funded grants do most of the research.

[WxUSAF]

Pardon me, report "TO" NASA, at least that is what the news article said. If they have it wrong its not my problem.

News agencies, especially borderline tabloids like The Guardian, get things wrong all the time, particularly about science. You take no personal responsibility to improve your understanding by checking a more reputable source?

Good to know.

Doesn't change the fact this is a laughable paper considering aliens would just now be seeing the prehistoric age...

You make an awful lot of assumptions there. There is no reason to doubt Earth like planets or even intelligent life within a few tens of light years of Earth. As a matter of fact, a paper was just accepted that found several "Super-Earth" sized planets around Sun-like stars close to us. One is in the habitable zone of it's star.

http://fr.arxiv.org/abs/1108.3447

[BethesdaWX]

News agencies, especially borderline tabloids like The Guardian, get things wrong all the time, particularly about science. You take no personal responsibility to improve your understanding by checking a more reputable source?

Good to know.

Oh so you're going to hold me to a higher standard than proffessional reporters? Look I read the PDF document in full, all I care about is the science. What more "reputable source"should I have looked at that also had this Paper? I presumed they got it right..silly mefor assuming the media actually knows how to do it's Job

You make an awful lot of assumptions there. There is no reason to doubt Earth like planets or even intelligent life within a few tens of light years of Earth. As a matter of fact, a paper was just accepted that found several "Super-Earth" sized planets around Sun-like stars close to us. One is in the habitable zone of it's star.

http://fr.arxiv.org/abs/1108.3447

Are there any signs of aliens on that planet who want to wipe us out?

[mappy]

Can we move this to OT where more people can comment?

[BethesdaWX]

Can we move this to OT where more people can comment?

I'm sure you'd like that, but it isn't an OT thread, it is a CC thread for obvious reasons. Invite your BFFs to the CC forum. Anyone can comment anywhere on the board.

Please don't start with me today I'm not in the mood.

[WxUSAF]

Oh so you're going to hold me to a higher standard than proffessional reporters? Look I read the PDF document in full, all I care about is the science. What more "reputable source"should I have looked at that also had this Paper? I presumed they got it right..silly mefor assuming the media actually knows how to do it's Job

I think calling The Guardian "professional reporters" is generous, but that's neither here nor there.

Glad you read it in full. Does it in any way credit a NASA grant or NASA funding for this? The answer is no. The only place NASA appears is in the 3rd author's affiliation.

Are there any signs of aliens on that planet who want to wipe us out?

What's your point?

[mappy]

I'm sure you'd like that, but it isn't an OT thread, it is a CC thread for obvious reasons. Invite your BFFs to the CC forum. Anyone can comment anywhere on the board.

Please don't start with me today I'm not in the mood.

Okay Grouchy McGrouchy

It just seems to be a lot more OT than Climate talk... carry on. I will spread the word so more people can chime in

[BethesdaWX]

I think calling The Guardian "professional reporters" is generous, but that's neither here nor there.

Glad you read it in full. Does it in any way credit a NASA grant or NASA funding for this? The answer is no. The only place NASA appears is in the 3rd author's affiliation.

Again, silly me for assuming reporters will give reasonably accurate information...really, my bad there, how stupid of me to even consider. So can you tell me of any other source that has this paper in their news feed so I know where to look? You gave me advice..I have a question.

Ever thought that maybe I did look and found nothing?

What's your point?

Maybe my point is what I just asked...Are Aliens going come from these planets 10 light yrs away and wipe us out or not? I want to learn. Are there any signs of Aliens with big bazooka bombs?

[Isopycnic]

I'm sure you'd like that, but it isn't an OT thread, it is a CC thread for obvious reasons. Invite your BFFs to the CC forum. Anyone can comment anywhere on the board.

Please don't start with me today I'm not in the mood.

Hi.

[Isopycnic]

HITF are aliens and HICC related? Next it will be that aliens are controlling the economy.

[cheetah440]

Everyone knows space aliens can see into the future so they would have already done us in a long time ago.

[BethesdaWX]

Hi.

Hi, wanna grab a beer later?