Hurricane Belle remains the #1 Tropical system for ENJ/NYC/Nassau County LI

[CAT5ANDREW]

Although I was 2 months shy of my 10th birthday,I remember this storm like it happened yesterday.65-70MPH gusts with rainfall rates of well over an inch per hour made this the most intense tropical system I have ever experienced in my life.For those of you who cant imagine it,just think March 13 2010 with heavier rainfall rates and tropical dewpoints with the fully leafed trees adding decibels to the roar of the wind.Queens County actually was able to get into the inner eyewall of Belle for a 3-4 hour period IIRC.There was no Lightning or Thunder here just intense rain and wind and many uprooted trees as well as massive flooding.

I have experienced Hurricane Force winds several times in my lifetime from 2 Noreasters (DEC 1974 DEC 1992),cold fronts (SEPT 1981,DEC 1988,DEC 1989) The Labor Day Derecho in 1998 and of course last years macroburst.Oddly enough though,I have never experienced Hurricane force winds with an actual hurricane.Belle did come the closest though.

Some have called Belle a pathetic storm not even noteworthy of mentioning,but for those of us who were in that eyewall receiving the brunt of what she gave,it was the among the highlights of our lifetime.

[Ed Lizard]

First exposure to cable TV was at the Harkin's place in North Massapequa after evacuations ordered for our part of Nassau Shores. Pretty lame for a storm, and I was gone before Gloria.

Did uproot a lot of willow trees.

[Guest Pamela]

I had heard they tracked her eye right up the Seaford-Oyster Bay Expressway (next to the Nassau / Suffolk line and blocks from where I lived at the time....)

[A-L-E-X]

I had heard they tracked her eye right up the Seaford-Oyster Bay Expressway (next to the Nassau / Suffolk line and blocks from where I lived at the time....)

I heard it made landfall on Jones Beach, similar to where Floyd did as a 65mph tropical storm.

For strength plus landfall location (furthest west is best)-- Belle is the hurricane of the century. I doubt 1938 or 1944 or Carol or Donna had that kind of impact this far west. The only other storm I've seen take a semicoastal track and make landfall further west was Bertha in 1996, which made landfall as a 65 mph tropical storm up here, near JFK.

But for the entire recorded period-- that prize goes to the great hurricane of August 1893-- it made landfall near present-day JFK as a Cat 2 and destroyed Hogs Island.

[Guest Pamela]

I had heard they tracked her eye right up the Seaford-Oyster Bay Expressway (next to the Nassau / Suffolk line and blocks from where I lived at the time....)

I heard it made landfall on Jones Beach, similar to where Floyd did as a 65mph tropical storm.

Jones Beach is directly south of the SOB Expressway....

[A-L-E-X]

Jones Beach is directly south of the SOB Expressway....

Yep I know, I'm just recalling all the direct landfall points in our general area that I've witnessed-- and those were the only ones I can recall that happened in Queens or Nassau County.

[HurricaneJosh]

I heard it made landfall on Jones Beach, similar to where Floyd did as a 65mph tropical storm.

For strength plus landfall location (furthest west is best)-- Belle is the hurricane of the century. I doubt 1938 or 1944 or Carol or Donna had that kind of impact this far west. The only other storm I've seen take a semicoastal track and make landfall further west was Bertha in 1996, which made landfall as a 65 mph tropical storm up here, near JFK.

But for the entire recorded period-- that prize goes to the great hurricane of August 1893-- it made landfall near present-day JFK as a Cat 2 and destroyed Hogs Island.

Correct-- the landfall point was Jones Beach, which is the furthest-W of all hurricane landfalls in this region in the last century-- and, as you point out, that's why the impact was so decent in Queens and Nassau. LGA and JFK recorded pretty decent winds-- with LGA having a sustained 52 kt. Gusts of 80 kt were estimated at Jones Beach. The official landfall intensity was 980 mb/65 kt.

Another thing about Belle: it was moving on the slow side for hurricanes in this region (<25 kt). This slower-than-normal motion allowed it to lose more punch before landfall, but on the other hand, I wonder if that relatively slow motion allowed the wind field to be less asymmetric than is normally seen in this region-- thus allowing the left side of the cyclone to pack a decent punch over Queens.

[A-L-E-X]

Correct-- the landfall point was Jones Beach, which is the furthest-W of all hurricane landfalls in this region in the last century-- and, as you point out, that's why the impact was so decent in Queens and Nassau. LGA and JFK recorded pretty decent winds-- with LGA having a sustained 52 kt. Gusts of 80 kt were estimated at Jones Beach.

Another thing about Belle: it was moving on the slow side for hurricanes in this region (<25 kt). This slower-than-normal motion allowed it to lose more punch before landfall, but on the other hand, I wonder if that relatively slow motion allowed the wind field to be less asymmetric than is normally seen in this region-- therefore allowing the left side of the cyclone to pack more punch.

That's a really good point, Josh-- it makes me wonder, because Belle was a rare bird indeed to be moving so slow at this latitude-- Edouard did that in 1996, but despite all the warnings, it never made landfall.... at one point we thought it was going to bisect Long Island (a Gloria-like track.)

How strong do you think Belle could have been had it been moving at the normal speed for this latitude (let's say 40-50 mph)? The other thing the slower movement may have been responsible for are higher rainfall totals-- though those typically occur about 100 miles west of the track.... for example, with Floyd, they happened over NJ and Eastern PA (10-12 inches of rain), with Bertha they happened in the Poconos (7" of rain where I was at the time), with Gloria they happened right over the city, and with Bob, which just barely grazed Montauk Point, the heaviest rains were over my area

[HurricaneJosh]

That's a really good point, Josh-- it makes me wonder, because Belle was a rare bird indeed to be moving so slow at this latitude-- Edouard did that in 1996, but despite all the warnings, it never made landfall.... at one point we thought it was going to bisect Long Island (a Gloria-like track.)

How strong do you think Belle could have been had it been moving at the normal speed for this latitude (let's say 40-50 mph)? The other thing the slower movement may have been responsible for are higher rainfall totals-- though those typically occur about 100 miles west of the track.... for example, with Floyd, they happened over NJ and Eastern PA (10-12 inches of rain), with Bertha they happened in the Poconos (7" of rain where I was at the time), with Gloria they happened right over the city, and with Bob, which just barely grazed Montauk Point, the heaviest rains were over my area

If it had moved faster, it could have been a stronger Cat 1 (75-80 kt) or maybe even a low-end Cat 2 (85 kt)-- but not much stronger. I say this because the cyclone peaked as a 105-kt Cat 3-- so it was never really that strong in the first place. The few true majors that have hit the Northeast over the last century were very powerful cyclones offshore-- for example, the 1938 storm was a Cat 5 and it moved really fast, thus allowing it to reach Long Island as a solid Cat 3.

[A-L-E-X]

Bob was such a tease for us-- it actually happened right when the waters are warmest (in late August instead of late September like Gloria) and on top of all that, 1991 was one of the hottest summers on record! The trough was just tilted a bit too much or else it could have slammed right into central Long Island-- we were so lucky. All the other factors were just right (or wrong, depending on how you look at it), except the trough, which is why it was just a graze for us.

[A-L-E-X]

If it had moved faster, it could have been a stronger Cat 1 (75-80 kt) or maybe even a low-end Cat 2 (85 kt)-- but not much stronger. I say this because the cyclone peaked as a 105-kt Cat 3-- so it was never really that strong in the first place. The few true majors that have hit the Northeast over the last century were very powerful cyclones offshore-- for example, the 1938 storm was a Cat 5 and it moved really fast, thus allowing it to reach Long Island as a solid Cat 3.

Thanks Josh-- so at worst it would have been something like August 1893, just somewhat further east.

[bkviking]

I remember Belle in Smithtown as my first memorable storm --period. My sis has told me the ice storm the year or so before was unreal (I think '74), but Belle really for me into it. Just branches down in Smithtown everywhere after the storm. Whereas the much derided Gloria did fell many more trees and cause social impacts (like school) far more than any storm since I remembered. Since Gloria, it's been the great ear of blizzards that have wreacjed havoc...BUT nothing comapres to Belle and Gloria--maybe I'm biased like Josh, but I just love the raw power of the tropical systems...and maybe I'm a bit spoiled the past decade with more than my share of KU storms, including some of the top blizzards of all time. In all this time NOTHING has compared with the onslaught of a tropical storm. I pray our luck at least returned

[CAT5ANDREW]

We were dam lucky with Isabel in 2003.Even though she made landfall down in VA,the winds here were SE at over 50MPH and were much stronger than I had anticipated.The Worst case scenario would be to have a High end CAT 2/low 3 make landfall in Monmouth County.If that ever happened God help anyone living near the ocean on the coast.The Belt Parkway would be under 15 feet of water.The Rockaways would be destroyed.There would be an evacuation unlike anything we have ever seen.Thankfully the setup to allow this to happen is extremly hard,to get.THe 1893 Storm wont happn in our lifetime.......at least I Hope not.

[CAT5ANDREW]

Correct-- the landfall point was Jones Beach, which is the furthest-W of all hurricane landfalls in this region in the last century-- and, as you point out, that's why the impact was so decent in Queens and Nassau.  LGA and JFK recorded pretty decent winds-- with LGA having a sustained 52 kt.  Gusts of 80 kt were estimated at Jones Beach.  The official landfall intensity was 980 mb/65 kt.Another thing about Belle:  it was moving on the slow side for hurricanes in this region (<25 kt).  This slower-than-normal motion allowed it to lose more punch before landfall, but on the other hand, I wonder if that relatively slow motion allowed the wind field to be less asymmetric than is normally seen in this region-- thus allowing the left side of the cyclone to pack a decent punch over Queens.

Excellent point Josh,I never thought of that.I was out on my porch with my neighbors experiencing the eyewall and I am thankful I was able to do that.

Wasn't there 2 Hurricanes to hit NYC within 3 days of each other in the 1950s? I believe one storm dropped 13 inches of rain on LGA and 10 at JFK?

[A-L-E-X]

We were dam lucky with Isabel in 2003.Even though she made landfall down in VA,the winds here were SE at over 50MPH and were much stronger than I had anticipated.The Worst case scenario would be to have a High end CAT 2/low 3 make landfall in Monmouth County.If that ever happened God help anyone living near the ocean on the coast.The Belt Parkway would be under 15 feet of water.The Rockaways would be destroyed.There would be an evacuation unlike anything we have ever seen.Thankfully the setup to allow this to happen is extremly hard,to get.THe 1893 Storm wont happn in our lifetime.......at least I Hope not.

I can tell you with ease that Dec 1992 had more of an impact on us than any tropical system ever could-- unless a major slams right into the city lol. Three days of hurricane force winds, Long Beach cut off from the mainland, trees and fences down everywhere, Coney Island and the FDR inundated with water, all the way up to roof tops-- all we needed was snow, but even without it, that had more of an impact than any other storm I have ever witnessed.

[A-L-E-X]

Excellent point Josh,I never thought of that.I was out on my porch with my neighbors experiencing the eyewall and I am thankful I was able to do that.

Wasn't there 2 Hurricanes to hit NYC within 3 days of each other in the 1950s? I believe one storm dropped 13 inches of rain on LGA and 10 at JFK?

Hazel probably had stronger winds for us than any coastal hurricane-- 113 mph in NYC I believe. I think there was also some kind of tropical system in the early part of the 20th century that dropped close to a foot of rain in Central Park.

[CAT5ANDREW]

I can tell you with ease that Dec 1992 had more of an impact on us than any tropical system ever could-- unless a major slams right into the city lol.  Three days of hurricane force winds, Long Beach cut off from the mainland, trees and fences down everywhere, Coney Island and the FDR inundated with water, all the way up to roof tops-- all we needed was snow, but even without it, that had more of an impact than any other storm I have ever witnessed.

DEC 1992 was the Biggest storm in my lifetime bar none.I experienced 25 foot waves at the coaast on Friday and Blizzard Conditions in Orange County on Saturday.

BTW,Nathans Hot Dogs in Coney island had 3-4 feet of water in it during that storm.

[A-L-E-X]

DEC 1992 was the Biggest storm in my lifetime bar none.I experienced 25 foot waves at the coaast on Friday and Blizzard Conditions in Orange County on Saturday.

BTW,Nathans Hot Dogs in Coney island had 3-4 feet of water in it during that storm.

Wow, I wish I could have seen all that snow-- did you go up there just to see the snow? How close did the heavy snow get to us? I remember we were around 35 degrees and raining-- changed to an inch or two of snow at the very end-- ahhhh what could have been! Wasn't the track just right for snow? There just wasn't much cold air around lol. Maybe if that had happened in January or February...

[CAT5ANDREW]

<b></b>Wow, I wish I could have seen all that snow-- did you go up there just to see the snow?  How close did the heavy snow get to us?  I remember we were around 35 degrees and raining-- changed to an inch or two of snow at the very end-- ahhhh what could have been!  Wasn't the track just right for snow?  There just wasn't much cold air around lol.  Maybe if that had happened in January or February...<b></b><b></b><b></b><b></b><b></b><b></b><b></b>

<b></b><b></b><b></b><b></b><b></b>I was in Monticello that day and it was snowing but got real bad at sunset as I drove South on Route 17.By the time I got SOuth of I-84,the snow was falling at nearly 3 inches per hour with nearly a foot on the ground.I stopped off at Supermarket before I got to I-87 in harriman. and it was just terrible.I ended up getting stuck off the side of the road as I slid into a ditch avoiding an oncoming car that veered into my lane by a drunk driver.After getting towed out I then drove down 87 and when I got south of ramapo,the conditions slackened off greatly and snow amounts from there lowered dramatically.By the Tappan Zee bridge,there was maybe 4 slushy inches,by the time I got to the bronx,there was an inch at most.

And Yes I did drive up there specifically to see the snow.A Nice appetizer before the Main course began in 1993-94 after starving during the snow drought during the mid/late 80s and early 90s.

[A-L-E-X]

I was in Monticello that day and it was snowing but got real bad at sunset as I drove South on Route 17.By the time I got SOuth of I-84,the snow was falling at nearly 3 inches per hour with nearly a foot on the ground.I stopped off at Supermarket before I got to I-87 in harriman. and it was just terrible.I then drove down 87 and when I got south of ramapo,the conditions slackened off greatly and snow amounts from there lowered dramatically.By the Tappan Zee bridge,there was maybe 4 slushy inches,by the time I got to the bronx,there was an inch at most.

So close yet so far-- I've heard that the North Shore of the Island may have gotten 6 inches or so.... I know around here it was 1-2 inches when the storm stalled out (yet again) near Cape Cod. It was such a slow moving storm-- that's the one thing I wish we had gotten last winter. A slow moving snowstorm over several days.

[uncle W]

tropical storm Doria in 1971 was as bad as any other tropical storm/hurricane outside of Donna in my lifetime...It was one of a few direct hits for the city over the years...There was another storm from the early 1960's that had winds strong enough to blow spalding rubber balls off a school roof and stick to the cyclone fence surrounding the school...I must have picked 20 spaldings off the fence that day...It could have been 1961 or 62...I'm not sure...

[JBG]

I can tell you with ease that Dec 1992 had more of an impact on us than any tropical system ever could-- unless a major slams right into the city lol. Three days of hurricane force winds, Long Beach cut off from the mainland, trees and fences down everywhere, Coney Island and the FDR inundated with water, all the way up to roof tops-- all we needed was snow, but even without it, that had more of an impact than any other storm I have ever witnessed.

I remember I was in Calgary during that storm. My wife and I had disagreed about routing our trip back to LGA through Toronto or Dallas. I picked Dallas. She told me that night we were lucky since Toronto was snowed out and we couldn't connect through there. I said "that can't be good for New York". Of course, the rest is history.

I found 6" of sloppy snow on our car at LGA when we came home.

[A-L-E-X]

tropical storm Doria in 1971 was as bad as any other tropical storm/hurricane outside of Donna in my lifetime...It was one of a few direct hits for the city over the years...There was another storm from the early 1960's that had winds strong enough to blow spalding rubber balls off a school roof and stick to the cyclone fence surrounding the school...I must have picked 20 spaldings off the fence that day...It could have been 1961 or 62...I'm not sure...

What kind of a track did this have, Unc? Did it have an ocean track and slammed into the area near JFK, or did it track just inland? Also, didn't Donna track over Suffolk County? I know its eye was huge-- like 100 miles wide and covered all of Long Island.

[A-L-E-X]

I remember I was in Calgary during that storm. My wife and I had disagreed about routing our trip back to LGA through Toronto or Dallas. I picked Dallas. She told me that night we were lucky since Toronto was snowed out and we couldn't connect through there. I said "that can't be good for New York". Of course, the rest is history.

I found 6" of sloppy snow on our car at LGA when we came home.

Wow, so the north shore did get a pretty heavy snowfall out of it! Weird, NYC only got 0.7" lol.

[uncle W]

What kind of a track did this have, Unc? Did it have an ocean track and slammed into the area near JFK, or did it track just inland? Also, didn't Donna track over Suffolk County? I know its eye was huge-- like 100 miles wide and covered all of Long Island.

[A-L-E-X]

LOL it looks like the track of the Norfolk and Long Island Hurricane. Superimpose them-- it's interesting. That one supposedly struck as a Cat 2 or 3?

[Diego]

Excellent point Josh,I never thought of that.I was out on my porch with my neighbors experiencing the eyewall and I am thankful I was able to do that.

Wasn't there 2 Hurricanes to hit NYC within 3 days of each other in the 1950s? I believe one storm dropped 13 inches of rain on LGA and 10 at JFK?

Connie and Diane in Aug., 1955?

[CAT5ANDREW]

Connie and Diane in Aug., 1955?

I believe so.Incredible when you consider we have not had a true Hurricane here in over 50 years yet 2 in 3 days hit then.

[RutgersWx92]

I believe so.Incredible when you consider we have not had a true Hurricane here in over 50 years yet 2 in 3 days hit then.

They were only minimal hurricanes when they hit the Outer Banks of NC, and then they immediately moved inland over the Mid Atlantic and Northeast as tropical storms. This area didn't experience hurricane force conditions; what these storms are much more remembered for here is the incredible rain and flooding they produced in the Mid Alantic and New England. The Delaware River had its worst flooding in recorded history because of two prolific rain producers hitting back-to-back.

Connie's track:

Diane:

[nzucker]

NYC had 5.32" rainfall from Connie in a 24-hour span, devastating.