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Heavy Rain Threat Part Zwei


wisconsinwx

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Yeah, I'm thinking from Clinton IA to Plymouth IN should be about the peak corridor based off of current convective trends and trends with the front.

I've been without computer and using a phone all morning and just now looking at the meso page and visible loops. I'm thinking the best chance of training will be almost the same area as yesterday, northeast iowa, far southern wisconsin into northwest illinois, maybe a little south but not much.

Seeing a nice surge north on visible and it looks like the wf has made it to around I80 with a few more hours left to keep shooting north.

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So basically every model's wrong then, b/c the NMM and HRW both bring an MCS from SW Wisconsin and W Illinois across S Wisconsin and N Illinois, with decent amounts throughout the terrain. I highly doubt every single model, including the short term, high resolution ones, are wrong in painting moderate to heavy rains across much of the southern part of the state.

if you just want people to tell you what you want to hear, maybe this type of discussion isn't for you.

FWIW MKX

MODELS CONTINUE

TO SHOW MAXIMUM QPF AXIS OVER CENTRAL AND SRN WI FOR THE PERIOD BUT

THEY HAVE BEEN CONSISTENTLY TOO FAR NORTH WITH THE FRONT AND PCPN.

WITH THE LACK OF ANY CYCLOGENESIS TO MOVE THE STATIONARY FRONT

NWD...EXPECT THE FRONT TO REMAIN IN NRN IL. HEAVIEST RAIN TO FALL

ALONG AND JUST NORTH OF THE FRONT...AFFECTING FAR SRN WI.

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So basically every model's wrong then, b/c the NMM and HRW both bring an MCS from SW Wisconsin and W Illinois across S Wisconsin and N Illinois, with decent amounts throughout the terrain. I highly doubt every single model, including the short term, high resolution ones, are wrong in painting moderate to heavy rains across much of the southern part of the state.

I've seen it happen. This isn't like predicting whether or not it's going to be sunny. At this point, I'd agree with Tony in limiting the northern extent of the heavy rain too far into Wisconsin, but trends are important to watch as always.

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if you just want people to tell you what you want to hear, maybe this type of discussion isn't for you.

FWIW MKX

That's what I was referring to when I explained why I thought at least the southern row of counties would be affected by the heavy convection. We are likely right on the edge, again, so we'll have to see, but given we had some sun today (until this drizzle and cloud crap came in) I'm more optimistic than yesterday.

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Another red flag to me: ORD stated in its Mesoscale Update that the latest NAM, RUC and HRRR were projecting the boundary to lay from the border of WI/IL to the south suburbs of Chicago. If that's the case, sounds that the NAM has the right idea at least logistically. Wouldn't that information enable it to get the zones of greatest convection correct?

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I don't think there's going to be much in N Illinois or S Wisconsin at all this evening. Area of convection in C Wisconsin, but even in the storms in Iowa don't look to be moving fast or in a favorable direction to make it towards the Southern Great Lakes.

Yeah it's looking like tonight won't be as active as it appeared earlier. Now there's some big storms firing in Missouri which may help focus heavier rains even further south. Too many leftover clouds and lack of forcing over Iowa and northern Illinois.

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Yeah it's looking like tonight won't be as active as it appeared earlier. Now there's some big storms firing in Missouri which may help focus heavier rains even further south. Too many leftover clouds and lack of forcing over Iowa and northern Illinois.

With mlcape sitting at 4000 over northern illinois, a front approaching and a slug of 2"+ pwats coming in from iowa, i'll be surprised if we don't see an MCS move east out of Iowa tonight. The llj won't hurt either.

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With mlcape sitting at 4000 over northern illinois, a front approaching and a slug of 2"+ pwats coming in from iowa, i'll be surprised if we don't see an MCS move east out of Iowa tonight. The llj won't hurt either.

This...

From GRR which touches on a bit of what alek said..

.SHORT TERM...(335 PM EDT THU JUL 28 2011)

(TONIGHT THROUGH FRIDAY NIGHT)

THE FLASH FLOOD WATCH STILL LOOKS ON TRACK...AS WE EXPECT EPISODES

OF HEAVY RAIN TONIGHT...PARTICULARLY BEFORE 2 AM FRIDAY. SPC HAS

PLACED AREAS SOUTH OF I-96 IN A SLIGHT RISK FOR SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS

TONIGHT...BUT CURRENT THINKING IS THAT THE PRIMARY THREATS WILL BE

FLOODING FROM LOCALLY HEAVY RAIN. MAIN CHANGES TO THE FORECAST WERE

TO INCREASE POPS TONIGHT.

WATER VAPOR IMAGES SHOW A WELL DEFINED UPPER PV MAX CROSSING THE

IA/MN BORDER THIS AFTERNOON. AN ADDITIONAL PV MAX WAS CROSSING THE

UPPER MIDWEST NEAR THE CANADIAN BORDER. AN MCS DRIVEN BY THE FIRST

PV MAX APPEARS TO BE WEAKENING AND LIMITING DOWNSTREAM INSOLATION.

ALTHOUGH THE SECOND PV MAX SHOULD PASS NORTH OF THE AREA...WE EXPECT

IT TO HELP THE LOW-LEVEL JET TONIGHT. CURRENT PROFILER/VWP DATA

SUGGEST THAT THE SHORT RANGE MODELS ALREADY ARE UNDER-REPRESENTING

LOW-LEVEL FLOW. AN EXTREMELY MOIST ATMOSPHERE /PRECIPITABLE WATER

GREATER THAN 2 INCHES/ COMBINED WITH A FAVORABLE ENVIRONMENT FOR

TRAINING/BACK-BUILDING CELLS NORTH OF A STATIONARY BOUNDARY ALL

POINT TOWARDS A VERY GOOD SETUP FOR ADDITIONAL VERY HEAVY RAIN

TONIGHT.

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Part of the problem now is 700mb temps of 10-12*C.

It'll be mighty difficult to get any significant convection with that type of warm air aloft.

That said, the LLJ isn't expected to really ramp up until around/after midnight, and with the amount of moisture/instability/forcing in place it's hard to say any area will miss out on precipitation or should be dropped from the flood watch.

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The atmosphere over the Heartland this evening is like a pot of boiling water. You can do your best to figure out where the next bubble will appear but it is hard to really pinpoint. Nevertheless, as has been mentioned, with a front approaching, high pwats, and a llj scheduled to increase I cast my lot that someone tonight will get a deluge.

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PRELIMINARY LOCAL STORM REPORT

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE QUAD CITIES IA IL

735 PM CDT THU JUL 28 2011

..TIME... ...EVENT... ...CITY LOCATION... ...LAT.LON...

..DATE... ....MAG.... ..COUNTY LOCATION..ST.. ...SOURCE....

..REMARKS..

0712 PM FLASH FLOOD SAVANNA 42.09N 90.14W

07/28/2011 CARROLL IL LAW ENFORCEMENT

LARGE BREACH IN PORTLAND AVENUE LEVEE CAUSING FLOODING IN

SAVANNA.

This is on the Plum River bringing water down from Jo Daviess County.

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The atmosphere over the Heartland this evening is like a pot of boiling water. You can do your best to figure out where the next bubble will appear but it is hard to really pinpoint. Nevertheless, as has been mentioned, with a front approaching, high pwats, and a llj scheduled to increase I cast my lot that someone tonight will get a deluge.

I wouldn't say a boiling pot of water, more like how the bathroom feels like taking a long hot shower.

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When I emptied my rain gauge this morning i was shocked at how much overflow (the SRG holds 2" in the tube and the rest flows into the can). Cant remember measuring this much at one time, and it was certainly not expected, at least by me, to see such widespread heavy rain throught SE MI. Rainfall total imby was 3.20". Puts me at 7.97" for the month of July (since I got my rain gauge in Aug 2000, my only wetter month to date is May 2004 with 8.38").

My 2011 year-to-date precipitation is 31.05". Just crazy to think that anyone in SE MI was talking drought concerns (even for those areas that had been screwed with next to nothing since late June, your still talking a very snowy winter and rainy spring). But after last night rains the word drought is insane, as we are flirting with one of the wettest July's on record.

Some of the official totals from the July 27-28 rain event, some widespread HEAVY rainfall. Its rare to see such widespread heavy totals like this.

SE MICHIGAN

MBY: 3.20"

Pontiac: 3.45"

Detroit: 3.51"

White Lake: 3.57"

Ypsilanti: 4.04"

Flint: 5.05"

*note, numerous reports near Ann Arbor of 6-7"!!!

SW MICHIGAN

Kalamazoo: 1.51"

Battle Creek: 1.57"

Lansing: 2.39"

Muskegan: 2.45"

Grand Rapids: 4.21"

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Looks like on the DVN sounding we have a very minor layer of warm air aloft around 850mb and I wonder if that might just keep things in check tonight more than last night with no strong trigger. More of a convergence zone/lift present from say around the Western burbs of Chicago down into Northeast Missouri so that might be the eruption zone into Northern Indiana/Southern Michigan for very heavy rains tonight around/after midnight if anything can get going. I'm kinda withholding judgement if we'll see anything widespread or as organized as last night, just don't have the same feeling about tonight as I did last night.

Sounds like Davenport is going to be scrambling to get up sandbags along the mississippi to prepare for the quick rises on the river with Ragbrai ending here this weekend and the Bix here this weekend too. Gonna be fun to watch all this going on.

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And right after that post there appears to be some organized storm growth now going on from Southeast Wisconsin back to Northeast Missouri/Western Illinois right along that weak boundary where the dewpoints have pooled the best. This is definitely the risk zone tonight to me. And as others have said, once the LLJ kicks in that will allow for some backbuilding to the SW and run up over these same areas for a while so some impressive rain totals in excess of 5" cannot be ruled out.

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Northeast Ogle County down to about Mid Cook County could be a little zone that see's some training and heavy rainfall. Can start to see that possibly shaping up on the radar. Little quasi-stationary boundary in that zone with a dew point pooling area feed right up into the storms forming in this area as well. The LLJ may allow some back building to the South and East of Sterling IL to continue to feed into this area later tonight for at least a period of time as well. This is definitely going to be the zone of flash flood potential. And of course the zone across Southern Michigan is getting pounded with a W-E band of very heavy/tropical rains as well...

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