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Atlantic Tropical Action 2011 - Part III


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6z run of GFDL says cold core

6z run of HWRF says warm core

UKie says cold

Is it right that it gets classified sub-tropically if it remains cold core? Looked liked the troff is already picking it up?

@6z it was probably cold core, but organization and tightening these last 12 hours have probably helped warm the core.

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Am I making an apples to appls comparison when I see mention of 63 triangular waves for the Canadian global versus a wave number over 500 for the Euro?

What specifically are you referring to (model resolution), or where are you "seeing mention" of these values? Feel free to PM me if you want.

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What specifically are you referring to (model resolution), or where are you "seeing mention" of these values? Feel free to PM me if you want.

Just checked the 'about' pages at CMC and ECMWF. Wondering if the Canadian is that much lower in resolution based on the number of waves mentioned.

The whole idea of 'spectral models' confuses me, really.

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Just checked the 'about' pages at CMC and ECMWF. Wondering if the Canadian is that much lower in resolution based on the number of waves mentioned.

The whole idea of 'spectral models' confuses me, really.

I'm pretty sure the Canadian Global Model (GGEM) is actually a grid point model, run at 0.3 degree (lat) x 0.25 degree (lon) resolution, roughly corresponding to ~30-35km resolution in the extratropics. The ECMWF model is run at T1279 (triangular spectral truncation); which corresponds to a grid spacing of approximately 15 km (=/-) in the extratropics. I would need to dig some more to verify this is the most recent information (particularly for the canadian), but this should provide a rough idea.

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SLPs had been very low these last few weeks, probably only comparable to 2010 and 2005 since 1950 or so. Other years with low, but not as low, SLPs are 1958, 1969 and 1995... :o

QA6zB.gif

If this means that 2011 will be similar to those five years (2010, 2005, 1995, 1969, and 1958), I wonder if the east coast (north of FL) will see fairly limited activity despite another potential big season in terms of total and strength of storms with strong storms that only either recurve offshore or only barely skirt the coast. In those five years (despite three of them being extremely active with 18+ storms), only three NS in those five seasons (only 0.6/season) could be considered actual center crossings (east coast north of FL) and all of those centers either only barely hit or skirted: Ophelia of 2005 (skirted NC), Gerda of 1969 (barely crossed the NE corner of ME), and Helene of 1958 (skirted NC). So, none of these five years had a hurricane or even a named storm plowing well inland into the U.S. like occurred in 2003 (Isabel), 1996 (Fran), 1989 (Hugo), 1985 (Gloria), 1979 (David), 1971 (Ginger), 1964 (Dora), 1960 (Donna), 1959 (Gracie), 1955 (Connie and Diane), 1954 (Hazel and Carol), 1952 (Able), 1947 (#8), 1944 (#3), 1940 (#3), 1938 (#4), 1933 (#8), 1916 (#4), 1913 (#4 and #5), 1911 (#3), 1906 (#5), 1904 (#2), 1903 (#4), 1899 (#8), 1898 (#2 and #7), 1893 (#4, #6, and #9), 1883 (#3), 1881 (#5), 1878 (#5 and #11), 1876 (#2), 1869 (#6 and #10), 1867 (#1), 1858 (#3), and 1854 (#3).

So, it has been eight years since the last one (2003's Isabel). There have been more than eight years between well inland U.S. east coast (north of FL) hurricane hits only three times since 1851: 17 years (1916-33), 10 years (1883-1893), and nine years (1858-67).

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If this means that 2011 will be similar to those five years (2010, 2005, 1995, 1969, and 1958), I wonder if the east coast (north of FL) will see fairly limited activity despite another potential big season in terms of total and strength of storms with strong storms that only either recurve offshore or only barely skirt the coast. In those five years (despite three of them being extremely active with 18+ storms), only three NS in those five seasons (only 0.6/season) could be considered actual center crossings (east coast north of FL) and all of those centers either only barely hit or skirted: Ophelia of 2005 (skirted NC), Gerda of 1969 (barely crossed the NE corner of ME), and Helene of 1958 (skirted NC). So, none of these five years had a hurricane or even a named storm plowing well inland into the U.S. like occurred in 2003 (Isabel), 1996 (Fran), 1989 (Hugo), 1985 (Gloria), 1979 (David), 1971 (Ginger), 1964 (Dora), 1960 (Donna), 1959 (Gracie), 1955 (Connie and Diane), 1954 (Hazel and Carol), 1952 (Able), 1947 (#8), 1944 (#3), 1940 (#3), 1938 (#4), 1933 (#8), 1916 (#4), 1913 (#4 and #5), 1911 (#3), 1906 (#5), 1904 (#2), 1903 (#4), 1899 (#8), 1898 (#2 and #7), 1893 (#4, #6, and #9), 1883 (#3), 1881 (#5), 1878 (#5 and #11), 1876 (#2), 1869 (#6 and #10), 1867 (#1), 1858 (#3), and 1854 (#3).

So, it has been eight years since the last one (2003's Isabel). There have been more than eight years between well inland U.S. east coast (north of FL) hurricane hits only three times since 1851: 17 years (1916-33), 10 years (1883-1893), and nine years (1858-67).

Well it's July, and we are on the verge of having our third storm... with good signs of a fourth by the end of the month in models. This is not including the BOC storm that was probably borderline TD/TS and will likely be reanalyzed.

I'd say we've had a fairly decent start up. Not as good as 2005 so far, of course, but very 1995ish.

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TROPICAL STORM CINDY DISCUSSION NUMBER 1

NWS NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL032011

500 PM AST WED JUL 20 2011

THE AREA OF LOW PRESSURE THAT FORMED NORTH OF BERMUDA YESTERDAY HAS

DEVELOPED ENOUGH ORGANIZED CONVECTION AND A WELL-DEFINED

CIRCULATION TO BE CONSIDERED A SUBTROPICAL OR TROPICAL CYCLONE. AN

UPPER-LEVEL TROUGH JUST WEST OF THE SYSTEM SUGGESTS SUBTROPICAL

CYCLONE CHARACTERISTICS. HOWEVER...PERSISTENT CONVECTION JUST

NORTH AND NORTHEAST OF THE CENTER SUGGESTS TROPICAL CYCLONE

CHARACTERISTICS...AND THUS THE SYSTEM IS DESIGNATED TROPICAL STORM

CINDY. THE INITIAL INTENSITY OF 35 KT IS BASED ON A 35-KT

INTENSITY ESTIMATE FROM TAFB AND A RECENT CIRA AMSU ESTIMATE OF

41 KT.

THE INITIAL MOTION IS 050/22. CINDY IS EMBEDDED IN MODERATE TO

STRONG SOUTHWESTERLY FLOW BETWEEN THE SUBTROPICAL RIDGE AND THE

WESTERLIES TO THE NORTH...AND THE CYCLONE SHOULD MOVE QUICKLY

NORTHEASTWARD THROUGH ITS LIFETIME. THE TRACK FORECAST IS NEAR THE

CENTER OF THE TRACK GUIDANCE ENVELOPE.

ON THE FORECAST TRACK...CINDY WILL PASS OVER SEA SURFACE

TEMPERATURES OF 24-26C FOR THE NEXT 12-24 HOURS...WHICH COULD ALLOW

SOME MODEST STRENGTHENING AS SHOWN IN THE INTENSITY FORECAST.

AFTER THAT...THE CYCLONE SHOULD ENCOUNTER MUCH COLDER WATER AND

INCREASING BAROCLINICITY IN THE WESTERLIES...WHICH SHOULD LEAD TO

EXTRATROPICAL TRANSITION. CINDY IS FORECAST TO DISSIPATE

COMPLETELY BY 96 HR...AND THE GLOBAL MODELS SUGGEST THIS COULD

OCCUR EARLIER THAN CURRENTLY FORECAST.

FORECAST POSITIONS AND MAX WINDS

INIT 20/2100Z 35.2N 53.8W 35 KT 40 MPH

12H 21/0600Z 37.1N 50.9W 35 KT 40 MPH

24H 21/1800Z 39.9N 46.9W 40 KT 45 MPH

36H 22/0600Z 42.4N 42.2W 40 KT 45 MPH...POST-TROP/EXTRATROP

48H 22/1800Z 45.4N 37.0W 35 KT 40 MPH...POST-TROP/EXTRATROP

72H 23/1800Z 52.5N 25.0W 30 KT 35 MPH...POST-TROP/EXTRATROP

96H 24/1800Z...DISSIPATED

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Here are my thoughts on Bret, What is now Tropical Storm Cindy, and the tropical wave out in the Atlantic. I believe Adam mentioned earlier there is a forecasted Kelvin wave that will be moving though the Western Atlantic during the time frame a lot of the models are showing genesis, so this wave certainly bears watching.

http://philstropicalweatherblog.wordpress.com/2011/07/20/bret-continues-to-fight-invest-99l-forms-other-threats-looming/

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lol three named storms, and ACE won't even be up to 5

which is why any comparison to pre-satellite era storm history is meaningless. Cindy would be extremely unlikely to be named in the past unless a ship was unlucky enough to be in the core path for the 18-24 hours she was alive. You could even make the case that the first two storms this year would have been problematic being classified 100 years ago.

That is not to say that I disagree at all with the NHC. I am just making the comparison among eras.

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which is why any comparison to pre-satellite era storm history is meaningless. Cindy would be extremely unlikely to be named in the past unless a ship was unlucky enough to be in the core path for the 18-24 hours she was alive. You could even make the case that the first two storms this year would have been problematic being classified 100 years ago.

That is not to say that I disagree at all with the NHC. I am just making the comparison among eras.

Dr. Neil Frank, former NHC head and retired chief met at our local CBS affiliate, KHOU-TV 11 (he did come out of retirement for Ike to help the new chief met, maybe he'd come back for the next big Texas threat, although he isn't a young man anymore and that could be decades away) suggested that the NHC in his day would not have classified some of the storms currently being classified, IIRC. I think he was talking exactly about the hybrid-ish short lived storms of non-tropical origin. Like Cindy.

Not talking Bret. It started non-tropical, but the VDM 21Z on the 17th had 6º delta between the center and outside at 178 meters, which is definitely a tropical system.

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Dr. Neil Frank, former NHC head and retired chief met at our local CBS affiliate, KHOU-TV 11 (he did come out of retirement for Ike to help the new chief met, maybe he'd come back for the next big Texas threat, although he isn't a young man anymore and that could be decades away) suggested that the NHC in his day would not have classified some of the storms currently being classified, IIRC. I think he was talking exactly about the hybrid-ish short lived storms of non-tropical origin. Like Cindy.

Not talking Bret. It started non-tropical, but the VDM 21Z on the 17th had 6º delta between the center and outside at 178 meters, which is definitely a tropical system.

The Frank era was totally silly. 8 storms a year but 29 tropical depressions....yay!

Give me the way we do it now over the way they did it then 24/7/365.

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