Antarctic Sea Ice

[Alpha5]

With all the attention being given to the Arctic, I figured it was time to look to the southern ice. While the Arctic has become the poster child for AGW, the antarctic has slowly been making gains in recent years. Not enough to counter the tremendous losses in the north, but one's that are certainly worth mentioning.

The AAO seems to be one of the key drivers of climate down there, I havent had the time to delve into researching it enough, but if anyone has some good info on it, post it here.

Just to give you an idea what the antarctic max's and min's look like

Poles trending in opposite directions.......

[Clifford]

Antarctica, due to a different shape than the Arctic region has always lost virtually all of its sea ice during the summer, and regained the ice during the winter. The Antarctic Peninsula has on occasion had significant positive temperature anomalies, otherwise the Antarctic temperatures seem to be tending much more neutral than the Northern Hemisphere.

Southern Hemisphere Sea Surface Temperatures lately have been trending more negative than the Northern Hemisphere Temperatures, leading support to the idea the the +AMO may be related to the decline in Northern Sea Ice over the last decade or two.

There have been some breakups of large Ice Shelves, especially along the Antarctic Peninsula over the last decade or so. But, I would assume the collapse and reformation of Ice Shelves are a periodic event that occurs as stresses and snow loads affect the ability of the ice to float. Certainly icebergs are calved from the ice shelves on a regular basis, and while they make for spectacular videos, they are unrelated to global warming. Time will tell what the overall balance of ice shelves will be.

[Alpha5]

Also interesting to note is that 2007 was a record year for the antarctic.

Ice hit a record high (satellite era) while the arctic hit a record low.

Just think thats an interesting coincidence

[skierinvermont]

One thing to keep in mind is that while the Arctic was experiencing a bit of a peak in sea ice in the 1970s and 1980s, Antarctic sea ice was experiencing a minimum. Which is why during the satellite era the decline in the arctic has been rapid while the Antarctic has been fairly constant. Over the long-term, both poles have experienced a decline in sea ice. Antarctica experienced much of its decline in the 50s and 60s.

As you suggested, the internal fluctuations within this long term decline, are related to the AAO, also known as the SAM. The declining SAM in the 50s ans 60s helped to rapidly melt the ice, while the rising SAM since the 60s has helped to stabilize the ice. The long term positive tendency in the SAM is believed to be related primarily to stratospheric ozone depletion (the infamous ozone hole over the antarctic).

[tacoman25]

One thing to keep in mind is that while the Arctic was experiencing a bit of a peak in sea ice in the 1970s and 1980s, Antarctic sea ice was experiencing a minimum. Which is why during the satellite era the decline in the arctic has been rapid while the Antarctic has been fairly constant. Over the long-term, both poles have experienced a decline in sea ice. Antarctica experienced much of its decline in the 50s and 60s.As you suggested, the internal fluctuations within this long term decline, are related to the AAO, also known as the SAM. The declining SAM in the 50s ans 60s helped to rapidly melt the ice, while the rising SAM since the 60s has helped to stabilize the ice. The long term positive tendency in the SAM is believed to be related primarily to stratospheric ozone depletion (the infamous ozone hole over the antarctic).

By some.

It's just a theory and has not been proven. And there is not a strong correlation between the ozone hole expansion and Antarctic ice trends.

But for those that believe humans are responsible for anything and everything, it fits nicely into place.

[nzucker]

One thing to keep in mind is that while the Arctic was experiencing a bit of a peak in sea ice in the 1970s and 1980s, Antarctic sea ice was experiencing a minimum. Which is why during the satellite era the decline in the arctic has been rapid while the Antarctic has been fairly constant. Over the long-term, both poles have experienced a decline in sea ice. Antarctica experienced much of its decline in the 50s and 60s.

As you suggested, the internal fluctuations within this long term decline, are related to the AAO, also known as the SAM. The declining SAM in the 50s ans 60s helped to rapidly melt the ice, while the rising SAM since the 60s has helped to stabilize the ice. The long term positive tendency in the SAM is believed to be related primarily to stratospheric ozone depletion (the infamous ozone hole over the antarctic).

The AMO is probably a bigger factor than you realize. +AMO means low arctic sea ice/high antarctic sea ice...-AMO the opposite. Could be interesting if we get the -AMO to cooperate with a strong, entrenched -PDO along with an anomalous solar cycle. That could finally get the Arctic back in business, though who knows how great the damage from anthropogenic warming has been to structures like the Beaufort Gyre,

[BethesdaWX]

The AMO is probably a bigger factor than you realize. +AMO means low arctic sea ice/high antarctic sea ice...-AMO the opposite. Could be interesting if we get the -AMO to cooperate with a strong, entrenched -PDO along with an anomalous solar cycle. That could finally get the Arctic back in business, though who knows how great the damage from anthropogenic warming has been to structures like the Beaufort Gyre,

The Beaufort Gyre is a Wind Driven Ocean Current, so if there is any connection to AGW, it cannot be established at this time. Sea ice that forms/moves into the Beaufort Gyre circulates clockwise around the Arctic for several years, even decades. Because of this, sea ice in the Beaufort Gyre has an ample timeframe to grow and thicken significantly. Its weakening, and in some cases, complete absence, in recent decades (espcially since 1990) has been responsible for some big time Ice decreases in the Arctic, predominately Multi-year Ice, Temperature changes have proven to be more minimal in affecting the ice.....although since this is an Antarctic Thread, I'll stfu regarding the Arctic from now on

The +AMO does indeed correlate to Higher Antarctic Ice, but even More-So a Decrease in Arctic Ice Extent and, yes, the Dipole Anomaly. The +AMO even renders the QBO a non-factor on many occasions in the indifference between the SST's & the layering of atmospheric profiles.....the PDO does none of that. So the +AMO could be Huge in tying all of this together maybe.

The Fact that the LT over the Antarctic has been cooling for 30 years, and the Sea Ice Extent has been increasing at the same time, gives some merit to the +AMO idea, but the problem is the fact that the Ice Extent was already Increasing since 1979 when the best data became available thru satellite, and temps have been cooling the whole way through as well. Since the Antarctic is surrounded by Water, while the Arctic is surrounded by land, obviously will imply larger changes over the Arctic rather than the Antarctic. Differing synoptical patterns also play large in differing the trends between the two. The Antarctic Always loses almost all of its sea ice during the summer.