Arnold214 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 JoeD was on the survey? Oh, very cool!! I didn't know that. Both JoeD and Turtle were. I believe there were 2 teams for a total of 7 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Both JoeD and Turtle were. I believe there were 2 teams for a total of 7 people. Were you working Weds afternoon/evening? That must have been insane at the NWS New England stations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold214 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Were you working Weds afternoon/evening? That must have been insane at the NWS New England stations... I was at home watching it all unfold with GRlevel 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Both JoeD and Turtle were. I believe there were 2 teams for a total of 7 people. Oh, cool. I didn't realize Eleanor had physically been on the survey as well. How great that we have access to these folks here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Thanks for the link-- it's very interesting video, to see it all from the P.O.V. of someone as they're coming out from under the wreckage. You really get a good understanding of how completely stunned they must have felt. An engineer would be best to determine the quality of those buildings-- and stripped/debarked trees, as others have pointed out, can occur in EF3 winds. All of this having been said, it's extreme damage, for sure, and I would be interested in hearing some remarks or analysis of this particular location from one of the surveyors. Perhaps Arnold214 can ask his friend? Yeah from seeing the damage personally it was a relatively easy call for EF-3. Above that I didn't see any solid evidence though there were certainly some candidates for EF-4 damage that would have to be judged by someone with more expertise than I. Props to BOX for taking the time and getting the survey done thoroughly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrials Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Extremely helpful to know that its not just local nws staff but also additional experts who come in on these things. Since we are talking about historical records and a historic event, I'm sure they looked at all the damage either on the ground or from the air to make their assessment, espcially since Turtle seemed to indicate her boss did a second survey yesterday, unless I am reading her earlier comments incorrectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Zo Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 It's a standard procedure that when a tornado is expected to be rated an EF3 or higher, additional expert(s) are brought in (called a Quick Response Team, or QRT). Aside from just the sheer scope of the damage taking two days to survey, that's another reason why the full results couldn't be published immediately -- since time is usually needed to bring someone in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 After seeing footage and pics of what a long track SNE EF3 looks like, I can't believe there was one within a half mile of my house in 1981. Of course my house was not built yet,... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjack123 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 That video where the very excited young man climbs out of the rubble is incredible, to live through that and shoot vid as the tornado pulls away, wow, anyway you stack it 3 or 4 it was and is amazing. Based on that damage this tornado was at the very least an EF3. Now being a surveyor how do you tell the difference between a high-end EF3 and a low-end EF4. With flattened homes and tree debarking a low-end EF4 looks possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Based on that damage this tornado was at the very least an EF3. Now being a surveyor how do you tell the difference between a high-end EF3 and a low-end EF4. With flattened homes and tree debarking a low-end EF4 looks possible. As Mike already posted the NWS consulted with a wind damage expert who was on scene with them. Just like we were I'm sure they saw some potential areas of EF-4 damage but after consulting with the experts they determined the damage to be EF-3. Seems settled to me that it was high end EF-3 damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 With flattened homes and tree debarking a low-end EF4 looks possible. Both of these things happen in EF3s. It really depends on the quality of construction and types of trees. That's why there are just limits to what we can tell looking at photos/video over the Internet. A lot of us can look at the damage and ballpark it, but in borderline cases like these, you need the real experts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Both of these things happen in EF3s. It really depends on the quality of construction and types of trees. That's why there are just limits to what we can tell looking at photos/video over the Internet. A lot of us can look at the damage and ballpark it, but in borderline cases like these, you need the real experts. One possible example in Monson I saw a house with no interior or exterior walls left standing. Totally demolished. Next door there was a pretty shoddy looking (and probably poorly anchored garage) that was swept directly into the house that was flattened. I imagine that had that garage not been there the damage to the house wouldn't have been as severe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tornado Girl Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Based on that damage this tornado was at the very least an EF3. Now being a surveyor how do you tell the difference between a high-end EF3 and a low-end EF4. With flattened homes and tree debarking a low-end EF4 looks possible. I've seen trees debarked in EF3's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocoAko Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Thanks for the link-- it's very interesting video, to see it all from the P.O.V. of someone as they're coming out from under the wreckage. You really get a good understanding of how completely stunned they must have felt. An engineer would be best to determine the quality of those buildings-- and stripped/debarked trees, as others have pointed out, can occur in EF3 winds. All of this having been said, it's extreme damage, for sure, and I would be interested in hearing some remarks or analysis of this particular location from one of the surveyors. Perhaps Arnold214 can ask his friend? I was lucky enough (is that the right word?) to participate in a damage survey in Oklahoma after our last outbreak. The tornado I was on was given an EF2 rating, and I saw snapped trees (near the base, too) and some debarking (mostly of softwood trees). People sitting in their armchairs insisting that the rating is wrong are obnoxious, to be honest. But everyone's an expert these days, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrials Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I was lucky enough (is that the right word?) to participate in a damage survey in Oklahoma after our last outbreak. The tornado I was on was given an EF3 rating, and I saw plenty of snapped trees (near the base, too) and some debarking. People sitting in their armchairs insisting that the rating is wrong are obnoxious, to be honest. But everyone's an expert these days, right? Must have been an experience with conflicting emotions I would imagine. Good for you for getting the field experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocoAko Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Must have been an experience with conflicting emotions I would imagine. Good for you for getting the field experience. It was interesting. (I just edited my post - my tornado was actually an EF2 but it just proves my point even more about debarking, etc.). Even though it was "only" an EF2 it did change my perspective of tornadoes. I found the resilience of the people to be so refreshing and optimistic. I think a lot of people tend to overestimate the rating of the tornado based on the damage. Even an EF2 can do quite a number on an area..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Does anyone know what software/websites are able to show these storms in 3 dimensions? Basically pay sites or internal media ones? Dr. Forbes and several other media outlets had impressive 3D images showing the structure of the June 1 storms GR Analyst Edition, but it costs $250 for a license, so you better really want those 3D images. http://www.grlevelx.com/gr2analyst/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I was lucky enough (is that the right word?) to participate in a damage survey in Oklahoma after our last outbreak. The tornado I was on was given an EF2 rating, and I saw snapped trees (near the base, too) and some debarking (mostly of softwood trees). People sitting in their armchairs insisting that the rating is wrong are obnoxious, to be honest. But everyone's an expert these days, right? Yeah, it's dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 GR Analyst Edition, but it costs $250 for a license, so you better really want those 3D images. http://www.grlevelx.com/gr2analyst/ lol... I'll just watch TWC instead. Eventhen I don't understand much of it. Better than watching the Sox blow another one, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I was lucky enough (is that the right word?) to participate in a damage survey in Oklahoma after our last outbreak. The tornado I was on was given an EF2 rating, and I saw snapped trees (near the base, too) and some debarking (mostly of softwood trees). People sitting in their armchairs insisting that the rating is wrong are obnoxious, to be honest. But everyone's an expert these days, right? lol... just a hobby site. Just like few people can hit a 96mph fastball or catch a pass in the NFL... no harm done. Not like we are wasting anyones resources. Gotta learn this somehow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocoAko Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 lol... just a hobby site. Just like few people can hit a 96mph fastball or catch a pass in the NFL... no harm done. Not like we are wasting anyones resources. Gotta learn this somehow Perhaps, but with posts like It was def an Ef4..and we'll see that upped as it should be..Just like Joplin was it implies that the people who did the survey didn't do it sufficiently, and some of these surveyors actually post here and see these comments. Its a bit arrogant and insulting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Perhaps, but with posts like it implies that the people who did the survey didn't do it sufficiently, and some of these surveyors actually post here and see these comments. Its a bit arrogant and insulting. You're talking to CTBlizz here...he's a troll. His goal is to get you guys riled up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Perhaps, but with posts like it implies that the people who did the survey didn't do it sufficiently, and some of these surveyors actually post here and see these comments. Its a bit arrogant and insulting. lol... it is Blizz... he is arrogant and insulting by nature... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocoAko Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 lol... it is Blizz... he is arrogant and insulting by nature... Well, yes, I've posted long enough to know that, but that doesn't mean it isn't obnoxious and rude to the BOX people who post here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPPYVALLEY Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Spoke with a friend from Kansas City today and he brought up a good point. He said the damage looked as bad up here as some of the worst damage he has ever seen living his life in tornado alley. Given that it was an EF-3 that is not surprising but he thinks the devastation looks even worse up here because we have so many more mature trees/forests here than they have in a lot of the mid-western areas that get hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Yeah, it's dumb. Perhaps, but with posts like it implies that the people who did the survey didn't do it sufficiently, and some of these surveyors actually post here and see these comments. Its a bit arrogant and insulting. Well, yes, I've posted long enough to know that, but that doesn't mean it isn't obnoxious and rude to the BOX people who post here. Holy blown out of proportion, if the folks that post here get insulted from us discussing damage degrees and questioning why, how, what and where then they are pretty thin skinned. Debate spurns knowledge, questioning authority and norms brings change. Sure some posts are silly, guys and gals like JD and El are so intune with board dynamics they know when to laugh off comments. The holier than thou comments are pretty strange, as if we do not appreciate the Mets , surveyors, and assessors. Keep one thing in mind though, history has been rewritten many times, reclassing of hurricanes, tornados has taken place because of somebody questioning authority. Think ORH 53 being a 4 not a 5 is not significant, check the PPT on BOX's own web site that states it should have be classed a 5. All I am saying is we debate, we question, we learn, have an issue with that bookmark www.boringagreementwitheverything.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Kevin is in Brimfield right now, texted me, actually has a camera with him. Guys he has a huge heart and knows most of the Mets who did the survey, relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Torchey Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Kevin is in Brimfield right now, texted me, actually has a camera with him. Guys he has a huge heart and knows most of the Mets who did the survey, relax. Well said Steve, and I agree with you 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeatherX Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Kevin is in Brimfield right now, texted me, actually has a camera with him. Guys he has a huge heart and knows most of the Mets who did the survey, relax. Kevin might want to take back some words. Nice to see him concerned....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 As Mike already posted the NWS consulted with a wind damage expert who was on scene with them. Just like we were I'm sure they saw some potential areas of EF-4 damage but after consulting with the experts they determined the damage to be EF-3. Seems settled to me that it was high end EF-3 damage. This. I'm not sure why so many armchair quarterbacks in an area that sees a major tornado once a decade feel they are qualified enough to rate it a 4 instead of a 3. That's what I find funny. Also, I feel like I've read that there have been some tornadoes in the northeast that were rated "too high" mostly due to lack of experience in judging those things. I like that BOX brought in outside help to avoid possibly over-rating the storm. I remember seeing the damage from the F3 that struck Mechanicville, NY in the Albany suburbs and to me that might as well looked like a 5. If you've never seen major tornado damage before and then walk into damage from a large F3.... its extremely impressive and makes you want to have them rate it a 4 or 5 to jive with what you perceive as Armageddon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.