OSUmetstud Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Eric Fisher on TWC was saying how the Taunton office couldn't reach a decision on EF rating today partly because of their uncertainty when dealing with such old buildings. Apparently, they are going to be consulting with other "experts" in home construction/engineering. I know people in this thread were saying that the older houses would be sturdier construction... I wonder if it might be the opposite in some specific types of older houses. some of those houses in the subdivision to the east of the towncenter looked new...Monson center itself was very old...we saw square headed nails in some of the damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guvna Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Fair enough...guess I was just in a bad spot. The clouds were rotating very broadly from what I could see and the winds were all straight-line NW to SE where I was. Interesting I was in West Sturbridge at the time it hit and the circulation was much more intense from what my photos indicate. Maybe because I was right on the outskirts. My photos are from East of 84 and the 2nd is looking North on 49. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamrivers Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Eric Fisher on TWC was saying how the Taunton office couldn't reach a decision on EF rating today partly because of their uncertainty when dealing with such old buildings. Apparently, they are going to be consulting with other "experts" in home construction/engineering. I know people in this thread were saying that the older houses would be sturdier construction... I wonder if it might be the opposite in some specific types of older houses. From where I was today.... where the worst visible damage was in the Bethany Road area....the houses that were still standing were generally newer (although plenty of older houses were still standing, there was just more structural damage) and it appeared most of the debris was consistent with older houses from the houses that were gone (the one overturned, etc.). What is interesting about where the tornado tracked here is that it went through a relatively old neighborhood (Bethany Road itself) and then as it climbed the mountain to the east, it ran into many newer homes as it went up the mountain which were towards the top of Stewart Avenue and then on the street that goes south (Google Maps has no name, but if you look in sat view you can see it is a relatively new neighborhood, up one street from Wayne Road on the opposite side). The worst damage I saw on any of the newer homes was the one on the corner of Stewart Avenue and the unnamed road, which was relatively new construction, had the exterior walls on one side ripped off, showing the living room on the first level and another room on the second level - there is a picture of this in the pictures I posted earlier. The rest of the newer construction houses had shingle damage, a couple blown out windows, significant tree damage, but not much visible structural damage. To put things in perspective, the widely circulated photo of the house that flipped over was, I believe 3 houses west of the said house on the corner that was newer construction. That's not to say that the older houses were poorly constructed, but the ones that had the most visible damage, appeared to me at least, to be the older ones. The houses in this area that were stripped down to their foundations also seemed to have older foundations. I walked around this neighborhood for about an hour. People were generally in decent spirits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 Living in the woods is great, I do, but when this happens. Monson Hill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 that one house in there is absolutely demolished...could be low-end EF4 damage...the one next to it is basically untouched...just a couple shingles missing from the roof...bizzare Amazing pictures Nick. Any idea what was fried under the power line? That poor town Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Amazing pictures Nick. Any idea what was fried under the power line? That poor town I assumed it was burnt grass...but could have been something else...don't know. All the pics I posted were from Monson...we went through Sturbridge but the damage we saw was just trees down etc. They closed route 20 from Sturbridge to route 67 so we had to find an alternate way to get to Monson...bypassing all the damage in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Was this posted (from Sturbridge) Also, I am still having trouble not seeing videos that are posted on my Windows 7 desktop. Works fine on the old iPod... Any clues? I installed a new flash player yesterday and since then it seems sketchy. I can watch youtube no problem though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guvna Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Was this posted (from Sturbridge) That's exactly the track that the 1st tornado took...over the hill and across 84, just missing Sturbridge Village. I hope more videos keep coming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 That's exactly the track that the 1st tornado took...over the hill and across 84, just missing Sturbridge Village. I hope more videos keep coming out. WBUR pics from Brimfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Chronicle tonight had a nice thing about the '53 ORH tornado. Coincidentally, Discovery had a segment about the 4/27 tornadoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Chronicle tonight had a nice thing about the '53 ORH tornado. Coincidentally, Discovery had a segment about the 4/27 tornadoes. Seriously! Damn, I wish I had watched. It might be in the On-demand part of my cable. So many awesome tornado videos lately. What is this tapatalk crap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 Seriously! Damn, I wish I had watched. It might be in the On-demand part of my cable. So many awesome tornado videos lately. What is this tapatalk crap? iPhone, iPad app for forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 WBUR pics from Brimfield Debarked trees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamrivers Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Kevin was wondering... I drove across East Longmeadow the whole length of 83 on my way home tonite....the only power was generated at fire/police and a couple businesses (Big Y, 99 Restaurant)....however I saw no damage until Allen Street in Springfield. Unless it clipped the northeastern part of East Longmeadow - and it would have been just clipping - I don't think it ever was in East Longmeadow....although the whole town is without power and it came on right at the Springfield line, closer to where visible damage actually is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amped Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Death toll lowered to 3. Apparently one person was already dead from a heart attack when the tornado hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hailstoned Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Below is a panoramic shot I took today looking East down to the catastrophically damaged Bethany Road area in downtown Monson. To put this in perspective, the steeple toppled First Church is just out of the picture to the left of the damaged structures in the foreground. Note the scoured out hillside just above the shattered homes. It appears to my amateur eyes anyway, that the local dynamics of the tornado descending into the valley and encountering the eastern slope MAY have caused some localized F4 damage in this area. (Note also the distant shaded ridge showing the disheveled trees as the tornado extended on towards Brimfield. I also noted countless examples of very large diameter snapped off trees, testifying to the strength of this tornado. It was an eery experience to take a ride up normally tree shaded Upper Hampden Road, west of downtown Monson-- to suddenly emerge into this sunlit desolation of shattered forest extending as far as one could see on both sides of the road. The width of the tornado path in this area I clocked on my odometer to be just under a half mile wide. attachment=29583:P1040111.jpeg] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Eric Fisher on TWC was saying how the Taunton office couldn't reach a decision on EF rating today partly because of their uncertainty when dealing with such old buildings. Apparently, they are going to be consulting with other "experts" in home construction/engineering. I know people in this thread were saying that the older houses would be sturdier construction... I wonder if it might be the opposite in some specific types of older houses. i dont get as heavily invested in the ef3 v ef4 debate etc as some.. not sure why, but damage is damage to me.. especially once it gets to a certain level. but i think it at least highlights (again) the process.. and that it was ludicrous for people to be announcing what it was as it was ongoing. but such is these boards these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamrivers Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Debarked trees Unreal.....from the little I saw in Brimfield it seemed worse (more flattening, instead of mangling) than Monson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green tube Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Death toll lowered to 3. Apparently one person was already dead from a heart attack when the tornado hit. that's like the guy who was looking for a spot to jump off a cliff and commit suicide, when he accidentally slipped and fell to his death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornadotony Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 i dont get as heavily invested in the ef3 v ef4 debate etc as some.. not sure why, but damage is damage to me.. especially once it gets to a certain level. but i think it at least highlights (again) the process.. and that it was ludicrous for people to be announcing what it was as it was ongoing. but such is these boards these days. There was nothing ludicrous about it. The point I was making yesterday is that it takes a tremendously damaging tornado to produce the debris signature everyone saw (and not everyone paying attention to what was going on knew that simply because of the rarity of this sort of event in SNE). I used easily understood terms (EF4/EF5) to relay what I meant by that (with, of course, the unfortunate typo of leaving out the oh-so-important "probably" which I'm sure I'll never live down). Whether this gets an EF2, an EF3, or an EF4 rating is moot at this point. And from what I've seen, that analysis was spot-on. There are areas of tremendous devastation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikehobbyst Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Massahoma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 There was nothing ludicrous about it. The point I was making yesterday is that it takes a tremendously damaging tornado to produce the debris signature everyone saw (and not everyone paying attention to what was going on knew that simply because of the rarity of this sort of event in SNE). I used easily understood terms (EF4/EF5) to relay what I meant by that (with, of course, the unfortunate typo of leaving out the oh-so-important "probably" which I'm sure I'll never live down). Whether this gets an EF2, an EF3, or an EF4 rating is moot at this point. And from what I've seen, that analysis was spot-on. There are areas of tremendous devastation. You're right, that kind of signature is almost always something you associated with significant amounts of damage (i.e. EF3+). This is the reason why debarked trees is on the EF scale as an indicator of EF3 damage. The amount of debris in the air (hence being able to see a debris ball on radar) takes the bark off trees through collisions. So to me right away, seeing sections of debarked trees is a good sign for at least an EF3. Plus you have some houses that stayed on their foundations but lost outer walls (which can be rated up to an EF3). Along with parts of Springfield that look like some of the brick buildings sustained EF3 damage to walls and upper floors. I will urge caution some of the piles of debris pictures though. I know I saw at least one house on WHDH that was clearly "pushed" off the foundation because it wasn't anchored properly. It would not take anymore than EF1 winds to slide a house like that. This can create a pile of debris if the house happens to then collapse on the spot. This is why BOX is taking the extra time to do a thorough survey of the damage, with help from engineering experts from region. Another red flag was a few piles of debris next to untouched houses. All that being said, I'm comfortable saying EF3. Either way, we know there is enough damage to warrant a close look to make sure it wasn't EF4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Amy, Rombalski, and I went to Monson and Sturbridge today to check out the damage, here are some pics: Great pics, Nick! It's really helpful to see clear, up-close documentation like this. Thanks for sharing these. That last picture is really interesting-- that super-sharp "damage gradient", with one house demolished and the other right next to it not even missing roof shingles. It suggests the circulation was very, very tight. Nice work, dude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 You're right, that kind of signature is almost always something you associated with significant amounts of damage (i.e. EF3+). This is the reason why debarked trees is on the EF scale as an indicator of EF3 damage. The amount of debris in the air (hence being able to see a debris ball on radar) takes the bark off trees through collisions. So to me right away, seeing sections of debarked trees is a good sign for at least an EF3. Plus you have some houses that stayed on their foundations but lost outer walls (which can be rated up to an EF3). Along with parts of Springfield that look like some of the brick buildings sustained EF3 damage to walls and upper floors. I will urge caution some of the piles of debris pictures though. I know I saw at least one house on WHDH that was clearly "pushed" off the foundation because it wasn't anchored properly. It would not take anymore than EF1 winds to slide a house like that. This can create a pile of debris if the house happens to then collapse on the spot. This is why BOX is taking the extra time to do a thorough survey of the damage, with help from engineering experts from region. Another red flag was a few piles of debris next to untouched houses. All that being said, I'm comfortable saying EF3. Either way, we know there is enough damage to warrant a close look to make sure it wasn't EF4. Some great pointers in this post-- reminders why you can't just look at a photo of a collapsed house and say, "A-ha! EF4!" As you point out, houses can collapse for different reasons, and it's not always because of 166-mph+ winds. I also agree with your basic assessment: my gut tells me solid EF3, but if they decide EF4, that wouldn't shock me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Kevin was wondering... I drove across East Longmeadow the whole length of 83 on my way home tonite....the only power was generated at fire/police and a couple businesses (Big Y, 99 Restaurant)....however I saw no damage until Allen Street in Springfield. Unless it clipped the northeastern part of East Longmeadow - and it would have been just clipping - I don't think it ever was in East Longmeadow....although the whole town is without power and it came on right at the Springfield line, closer to where visible damage actually is Thanks dude..Weird how there's no damage yet the whole town is withou power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherMA Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Well to be honest I went outside to watch that FIT cell roll in...but I know what to look for and if I saw tight rotation/funnel I obviously would have went inside. It was fairly exciting even though it didn't amount to much. Well, I'm not really talking about that. I mean if your smart and you know when to go inside if the storm becomes dangerous....then that's fine. I'm more talking about the people who complain that "the tornado warning was unnecessary" or "I knew that they were (the news) exaggerating the situation" who have no clue what their talking about. I think its mostly due to to them never seeing a tornado or the damage from it. Until it happens to them, some people will just believe they are immune to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Well, I'm not really talking about that. I mean if your smart and you know when to go inside if the storm becomes dangerous....then that's fine. I'm more talking about the people who complain that "the tornado warning was unnecessary" or "I knew that they were (the news) exaggerating the situation" who have no clue what their talking about. I think its mostly due to to them never seeing a tornado or the damage from it. Until it happens to them, some people will just believe they are immune to it. People will always be complacent to warnings. It happens all the time. I've heard stories of people calling up dispatchers in the Plains when sirens go off. "Well I don't see anything..." is the response they get when the sirens go off. The same people who complain about warnings, will probably be the same ones that say.."We never knew it was coming...it came without warning". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 Great pics, Nick! It's really helpful to see clear, up-close documentation like this. Thanks for sharing these. That last picture is really interesting-- that super-sharp "damage gradient", with one house demolished and the other right next to it not even missing roof shingles. It suggests the circulation was very, very tight. Nice work, dude! Some of the video suggests it even roped, also some flyover and vids suggest multiple vortex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewbeer Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Here is the video I shot from downtown Springfield as it went by my office to the south: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Here is the video I shot from downtown Springfield as it went by my office to the south: Wow-- great catch, dude! Really cool footage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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