dan11295 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Obviously we do know yet if any one location had a high number of fatalities. Though from other forums I had read there were 4 at the hospital and 7 at a nursing home. Note that a nursing home was hit in Tuscaloosa also I believe, but IIRC that had been evacuated/taken some other shelter beforehand. There is no question that the combination of time (Sunday afternoon) how fast it developed and the fact it was rain-wrapped were all contributing factors. From reviewing the warnings it was obviously warned, but none of the warnings indicated a large/violent tornado was possible until it was already mostly through the city.Only the last warning as it was entering the city included on-the-ground confirmation. Only so much you can do to warn when it spins up that fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I wouldn't be surprised if it was a little higher than 50%, but I'd be surprised if it was that high. think about all the tornado warnings we see compared to the number of tornadoes...much more warnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 http://www.nws.noaa.gov/cfo/program_planning/doc/FY-2009%20NOAA's%20NWS%20National%20Performance%20Measures%20-%20Graph%20Update.pdf FAR for tornadoes in 2008 was 75%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettjrob Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I wouldn't be surprised if it was a little higher than 50%, but I'd be surprised if it was that high. It is somewhere in the neighborhood of 75%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radtechwxman Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Does anyone know if a tornado emergency was issued for Joplin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallow Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 think about all the tornado warnings we see compared to the number of tornadoes...much more warnings. http://www.nws.noaa.gov/cfo/program_planning/doc/FY-2009%20NOAA's%20NWS%20National%20Performance%20Measures%20-%20Graph%20Update.pdf FAR for tornadoes in 2008 was 75%. It is somewhere in the neighborhood of 75%. That's higher than I expected (I wonder if a decent percentage of those are just tornadoes that were never reported 'cause they happened in sparsely populated areas?)... but not so high that you should say "oh it's just another tornado warning". Even one in four is pretty scary odds for a tornado. Obviously you all know this, but it's a matter of getting this notion to the general public. Just because you've been tornado warned before and didn't personally see anything doesn't mean you shouldn't take the next one seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 We've been incredibly unlucky this year with major tornadoes hitting large population centers. As far as fatalities, you really have to go back to 1953 (Waco, Flint/Worcester) to find something like this less than a month apart. Unfortunately, this type of thing may become less rare in the future with all the population growth and expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Was this storm particularly fast moving? I have only so far seen one "on the ground" video from a chaser and it seemed to be tracking rather quickly. Would this contribute to more fatalities somehow? 90 fatalities so far, tying Worcester 1953... possibly many more to be found. Very sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Another report I read had a quote from the governor saying that the storm was so loud that people could not likely hear the sirens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Another report I read had a quote from the governor saying that the storm was so loud that people could not likely hear the sirens. By the time it's that loud, it's too late for sirens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Was this storm particularly fast moving? I have only so far seen one "on the ground" video from a chaser and it seemed to be tracking rather quickly. Would this contribute to more fatalities somehow? 90 fatalities so far, tying Worcester 1953... possibly many more to be found. Very sad Forward motion wasn't extremely fast but it wasn't a slow mover either. I think it was somewhere around 40 mph give or take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I made a mistake on one of those posts... Worcester had 94 fatalities... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Does anyone know if a tornado emergency was issued for Joplin? I think just the warning posted on the previous page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on_wx Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Does anyone know if a tornado emergency was issued for Joplin? SEVERE WEATHER STATEMENT NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE SPRINGFIELD MO 542 PM CDT SUN MAY 22 2011 MOC097-222300- /O.CON.KSGF.TO.W.0030.000000T0000Z-110522T2300Z/ JASPER MO- 542 PM CDT SUN MAY 22 2011 ...A TORNADO WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 600 PM CDT FOR CENTRAL JASPER COUNTY... ...A TORNADO WARNING ALSO REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL FOR NORTHERN NEWTON...SOUTHEAST CHEROKEE COUNTY...AND SOUTHERN JASPER COUNTIES... AT 538 PM CDT...TRAINED WEATHER SPOTTERS REPORTED A TORNADO NEAR JOPLIN...OR 6 MILES NORTHEAST OF GALENA...MOVING NORTHEAST AT 45 MPH. LOCATIONS IMPACTED INCLUDE AIRPORT DRIVE...ALBA...ATLAS...BROOKLYN HEIGHTS...CARL JUNCTION...CARTERVILLE...LAKESIDE...NECK CITY... NORTHEASTERN JOPLIN...OAKLAND PARK...ORONOGO...PURCELL AND WEBB CITY. INTERSTATE 44 BETWEEN MILE MARKERS 13 AND 18 WILL ALSO BE IMPACTED BY THIS TORNADO. IN ADDITION TO A TORNADO...THIS STORM IS CAPABLE OF PRODUCING LARGE DAMAGING HAIL UP TO BASEBALL SIZE. PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS... A TORNADO WATCH REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 900 PM CDT SUNDAY EVENING FOR SOUTHEAST KANSAS AND SOUTHERN MISSOURI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radtechwxman Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 SEVERE WEATHER STATEMENT NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE SPRINGFIELD MO 542 PM CDT SUN MAY 22 2011 MOC097-222300- /O.CON.KSGF.TO.W.0030.000000T0000Z-110522T2300Z/ JASPER MO- 542 PM CDT SUN MAY 22 2011 ...A TORNADO WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 600 PM CDT FOR CENTRAL JASPER COUNTY... ...A TORNADO WARNING ALSO REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL FOR NORTHERN NEWTON...SOUTHEAST CHEROKEE COUNTY...AND SOUTHERN JASPER COUNTIES... AT 538 PM CDT...TRAINED WEATHER SPOTTERS REPORTED A TORNADO NEAR JOPLIN...OR 6 MILES NORTHEAST OF GALENA...MOVING NORTHEAST AT 45 MPH. LOCATIONS IMPACTED INCLUDE AIRPORT DRIVE...ALBA...ATLAS...BROOKLYN HEIGHTS...CARL JUNCTION...CARTERVILLE...LAKESIDE...NECK CITY... NORTHEASTERN JOPLIN...OAKLAND PARK...ORONOGO...PURCELL AND WEBB CITY. INTERSTATE 44 BETWEEN MILE MARKERS 13 AND 18 WILL ALSO BE IMPACTED BY THIS TORNADO. IN ADDITION TO A TORNADO...THIS STORM IS CAPABLE OF PRODUCING LARGE DAMAGING HAIL UP TO BASEBALL SIZE. PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS... A TORNADO WATCH REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 900 PM CDT SUNDAY EVENING FOR SOUTHEAST KANSAS AND SOUTHERN MISSOURI. that isn't strong enough wording. the warning should have said large and extremely dangerous tornado. and there should have been a tornado emergency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Whether it's a tornado warning or emergency...people should take cover. I don't see how you can justify not needing to take cover..just because it's not a tornado emergency. That decision logic is flawed...just take cover.....period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srain Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Whether it's a tornado warning or emergency...people should take cover. I don't see how you can justify not needing to take cover..just because it's not a tornado emergency. That decision logic is flawed...just take cover.....period. Bingo! We beat this same issue to death with the April events. Warnings are warnings, period! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radtechwxman Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Whether it's a tornado warning or emergency...people should take cover. I don't see how you can justify not needing to take cover..just because it's not a tornado emergency. That decision logic is flawed...just take cover.....period. i totally agree. all warnings should be treated the same. take shelter. but i was just shocked there wasn't a tornado emergency when multiple spotters reported a large wedge doin damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJW155 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Whether it's a tornado warning or emergency...people should take cover. I don't see how you can justify not needing to take cover..just because it's not a tornado emergency. That decision logic is flawed...just take cover.....period. A bit off topic but did you see the program last night about the Alabama tornadoes? A guy 60 miles NE of Birmingham was watching on 2 different TVs the tornado that went throught Tuscaloosa/Birmingham and headed his way. He didn't seek shelter because he didn't think it would go near him. He ended up filming the inside of the tornado from his 3rd floor apartment. The tornado must have taken 2 hours to get there, he was watching it on TV, saw it outside and STILL didn't seek shelter. I doubt it ever occurred to him to seek shelter. Point is, there are people that just refuse to listen to warnings and there's not a thing you can do about it. BTW-I completely agree with you. A warning is a warning and seek shelter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 The hurricane parallel to this event is something like Charley in 2004. Everyone knows about the potential (or they should), warnings are in effect, but the rapid ramp up into a beast catches people off guard. I really can't think of a worse set of circumstances for Joplin unless it would've hit at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewxmann Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 A bit off topic but did you see the program last night about the Alabama tornadoes? A guy 60 miles NE of Birmingham was watching on 2 different TVs the tornado that went throught Tuscaloosa/Birmingham and headed his way. He didn't seek shelter because he didn't think it would go near him. He ended up filming the inside of the tornado from his 3rd floor apartment. The tornado must have taken 2 hours to get there, he was watching it on TV, saw it outside and STILL didn't seek shelter. Point is, there are people that just refuse to listen to warnings and there's not a thing you can do about it. BTW-I completely agree with you. A warning is a warning and seek shelter. Kinda off topic even more, but what is with television networks airing specials coinciding with big tornado events? TWC was planning to air a special about the April 14-16 outbreak on April 27... Discovery airs a special about April 27 on the day of the Joplin tornado... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkrangers Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 The hurricane parallel to this event is something like Charley in 2004. Everyone knows about the potential (or they should), warnings are in effect, but the rapid ramp up into a beast catches people off guard. I really can't think of a worse set of circumstances for Joplin unless it would've hit at night. Yep, it dropped and maxed right across the city. Probably little time for them to enhance the wording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 that isn't strong enough wording. the warning should have said large and extremely dangerous tornado. and there should have been a tornado emergency. For all you know there wasn't enough time to put out a new warning with the dangerous part in it. That tornado dropped and grew in size VERY quickly, not to mentioned moved at 45mph. It's easy for people to make judgements on what the NWS should have done when its over and done with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 The hurricane parallel to this event is something like Charley in 2004. Everyone knows about the potential (or they should), warnings are in effect, but the rapid ramp up into a beast catches people off guard. I really can't think of a worse set of circumstances for Joplin unless it would've hit at night. I was thinking that a weekday would have been worse. Considering how many schools were completely destroyed, I can't imagine how bad it would have been if they were filled with students Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 I was thinking that a weekday would have been worse. Considering how many schools were completely destroyed, I can't imagine how bad it would have been if they were filled with students Yeah, good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxeyeNH Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Hey guys, maybe you can answer a question for me about tornadoes. You probably have seen/heard the Utube video/audio with the group of people huddled in a store as the tornado passes overhead. The tornado hits, the glass blows out and then there is a definate lull. One of the guys says over and over We are good, meaning the storm has passed. Then it hits again even with more fury. Do you think that there was an area of relative calm in the middle? Almost like an eye of a hurricane? It could also just be a multi vorticity tornado with multi centers hitting the store. The audio is probably the best audio segment that has ever been recorded as a tornado passed overhead, just chilling! Gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 According to MSNBC, the death toll is now at 90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 ariel shots,,the first builing is/was a walmart supercenter http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110523/us_yblog_thelookout/terrifying-videos-of-missouri-twister-aftermath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaoPos Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Hey guys, maybe you can answer a question for me about tornadoes. You probably have seen/heard the Utube video/audio with the group of people huddled in a store as the tornado passes overhead. The tornado hits, the glass blows out and then there is a definate lull. One of the guys says over and over We are good, meaning the storm has passed. Then it hits again even with more fury. Do you think that there was an area of relative calm in the middle? Almost like an eye of a hurricane? It could also just be a multi vorticity tornado with multi centers hitting the store. The audio is probably the best audio segment that has ever been recorded as a tornado passed overhead, just chilling! Gene it could have been the inflow, then the tornado, and then the RFD. but your assesment could be right as well. tough to say. not sure what exactly goes on in the middle of these multi vortex tornado/large wedge tornados Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Hey guys, maybe you can answer a question for me about tornadoes. You probably have seen/heard the Utube video/audio with the group of people huddled in a store as the tornado passes overhead. The tornado hits, the glass blows out and then there is a definate lull. One of the guys says over and over We are good, meaning the storm has passed. Then it hits again even with more fury. Do you think that there was an area of relative calm in the middle? Almost like an eye of a hurricane? It could also just be a multi vorticity tornado with multi centers hitting the store. The audio is probably the best audio segment that has ever been recorded as a tornado passed overhead, just chilling! Gene I'm sure there are people on this board more qualified to speak on the subject than I am, but listening to the recording, my impression is that the first blast was likely the leading edge (gust front, if you will). You can then hear what sounds like hail hitting the building followed by the actual tornado. Even though it was a monster storm, there is no way (IMO) that it was directly over them and it had an eye of any kind. The lull was likely just the time between the gust front and the tornado hitting the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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