JoMo Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 And article about the report in todays paper: http://www.joplinglobe.com/tornadomay2011/x480209133/NWS-team-to-seek-more-effective-storm-warning-means *Richard Wagenmaker, a National Weather Service meteorologist in Detroit and leader of the assessment team that came to Joplin after the tornado, in a telephone interview Tuesday, said, “We are putting together a team this week that will look at ideas to make our warnings more effective. We want to issue warnings that are in proportion to the threat. “Tornadoes come in all shapes and sizes, but we issue one warning. It’s our job to look into that.’’ *“At the same time, 162 people died and more than 1,000 suffered injuries,” he said. “We need to be looking for ways to be less vulnerable. Despite the fact it was a warned event, we need to be looking for ways to make it more effective. We want people to respond immediately.” *Bill Davis, head of the weather station in Springfield, said, “It’s like a football team who keeps doing it the same way, and it’s not working as well as they would like. We need to try another play.’’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyhb Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Seems to me based on the service assessment that there may be a push to make "tornado emergency" a separate warning per recommendation 2. They clearly state they want to maintain the existing POD but want to "provide a non-routine warning mechanism that prompts people to take immediate life saving action in extreme events like strong to violent tornadoes" Also to modify the warning structure to be more impact based than phenomenon based. All of the above would be great I think. I remember several of the original warning texts during the Apr. 27th Outbreak reading something like this: BULLETIN - EAS ACTIVATION REQUESTEDTORNADO WARNING NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE HUNTSVILLE AL 325 PM CDT WED APR 27 2011 THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN HUNTSVILLE HAS ISSUED A * TORNADO EMERGENCY FOR... SOUTHEASTERN MADISON COUNTY IN NORTH CENTRAL ALABAMA... SOUTHWESTERN JACKSON COUNTY IN NORTHEAST ALABAMA... NORTHERN MARSHALL COUNTY IN NORTHEAST ALABAMA... * UNTIL 415 PM CDT * AT 319 PM CDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR WAS TRACKING A LARGE AND EXTREMELY DANGEROUS TORNADO ABOUT NEAR ARAB...MOVING NORTHEAST AT 45 MPH. * LOCATIONS NEAR THE PATH OF THIS TORNADO INCLUDE... HEBRON. COLUMBUS CITY. GRANT. WOODVILLE. LIM ROCK. LARKINSVILLE. I kind of thought that might be a good idea in the future, except to create the separate TORE category as mentioned above, perhaps with red text or something like in a PDS watch to highlight the threat of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Zo Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 And article about the report in todays paper: http://www.joplinglo...m-warning-means The report was to be combined with another assessment report about the tornado that struck Tuscaloosa, Ala., in April. But the National Weather Service, Wagenmaker said, decided to roll out the Joplin report separately from the larger national assessment report that is yet to be completed. Just to note -- the big outbreak assessment is still in the works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*IndyMeso* Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 It's not really that people didn't know what they meant as far as thinking about a severe weather situation. The only time the tornado sirens go off is if we are under a tornado warning. Prior to May 22nd, I don't ever remember them going off for a severe T-storm warning, if they did it was few and far between for the 75+ MPH winds. I know the policy is for 75+ MPH winds or a tornado spotted or a tornado warning. But, I've heard it a million times. It was sunny when the first tornado sirens went off so people thought the threat wasn't for their area so they didn't take proper precautions and went on with their daily lives. I think a lot of people suffer from hearing them too often where 'nothing happens'. I've always thought that it is bad policy to sound the sirens once a week (10 AM Monday) to test them if the weather is clear. I think that adds to the public perception that the 'sirens go off all the time'. I think people get used to hearing them be tested and 'learn' to tune them out. Another point I've heard is that the radio stations were incorrectly reporting a tornado at 7th and Rangeline, based on I don't know what.... This caused at least one person with their two children to try to flee to the south on Rangeline putting them into the direct path of the actual tornado, one that unfortunately took their lives. This is something that has been brought up as well. Do counties start testing the sirens only once a month instead of every week? I personally think it would help cut down the idea that sirens happen all time however, it would be an adjustment for people who are accustomed to hearing them go off once a week. It will be exciting to learn more about these issue in the upcoming future thats for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radarman Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 One thing I found interesting was the recommendations to radar operators to be more active changing PRFs during storm events to avoid range-folding at constant distances from the individual radars, and VCPs to reduce time between the lowest scans. In the event of a singular discrete supercell this may be feasible, but when all hell is breaking loose, with multiple TORs and developing cells (a la 4/27, 5/24, or even to a lesser extent 6/1) expecting the radar guys to execute these changes quickly for multiple radars is a lot to ask. It seems an ideal candidate task for an end-to-end optimized system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*IndyMeso* Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Other people have mentioned point A, regarding perhaps separating out tornado emergency as a new product. I wonder if this proposal could encompass a bigger paradigm shift than that. Somehow, there simply has to be a higher level of warning that doesn't simultaneously render a typical tornado warning (or whatever its future analog may be) into the realm of public indifference. I am more interested, however, in point B -- impact-based rather than phenomenon-based. Something that may blur the lines between types of wind, and focuses more on the potential strength and impact instead. This was a very interesting, and very well-presented assessment. If nothing else, it expertly summarizes and spreads the word about many of the socio-meteorological issues that have arisen during 2011. Absolutely agree. I see you are from Wilmington... do you work for the NWS Office? To further add on to your Point A idea, I do think it was a brilliant move on the emergency manager's decision to sound the siren a second time. However, I found it interesting that the sirens were only set off for 3 minutes and then were shut off the first time. The assessment stated that this caused people to become confused over the siren alert time period and thought that the threat had ended. In regards to activating the siren a second time, people had indicated that this raised their level of awareness, confirmed the alert, and then sought shelter. I honestly hope this is an action that is not taken lightly for I believe that if emergency managers start sounding the sirens a second time during a tornado warning, people will become complacent with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 This is something that has been brought up as well. Do counties start testing the sirens only once a month instead of every week? I personally think it would help cut down the idea that sirens happen all time however, it would be an adjustment for people who are accustomed to hearing them go off once a week. It will be exciting to learn more about these issue in the upcoming future thats for sure. I think it would be better personally. I've noticed that I've learned to tune them out on Monday at 10 AM. I've had to ask several people if they heard them because I did not hear them and they actually had been set off. I'm in favor of not setting them off for testing every week because I think that people get used to them and when there is a threat, they may not actually hear the sirens because they have tuned them out from hearing them every week. You can take it a step further and only test them once a month and/or test them a few days before a severe weather event is expected if it is sunny out. This could be a sort of early warning that there may be severe storms in a couple of days. To further add on to your Point A idea, I do think it was a brilliant move on the emergency manager's decision to sound the siren a second time. However, I found it interesting that the sirens were only set off for 3 minutes and then were shut off the first time. The assessment stated that this caused people to become confused over the siren alert time period and thought that the threat had ended. In regards to activating the siren a second time, people had indicated that this raised their level of awareness, confirmed the alert, and then sought shelter. I honestly hope this is an action that is not taken lightly for I believe that if emergency managers start sounding the sirens a second time during a tornado warning, people will become complacent with that. I don't really have a problem with the sirens sounding for 3 minutes. It's typically long enough to get peoples attention and to seek shelter or tune to the TV/radio. I don't think they should sound for the length of the warning if there is no confirmed tornado though as that would cause more 'siren fatigue'. I would have thought that with a confirmed tornado on the ground, the sirens would have been sounded the entire time the tornado was on the ground. How long do you think they should sound? It was a good decision to sound the sirens the second time, and when I heard them the second time, I knew a tornado was on the ground but I just didn't know where. I had suspected that based on radar it would either pass right over me or to the north of me so I took shelter in a closet on the SW side since there really is no safe place when you are on a slab with an open interior room. I'll have a shelter by next Spring though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*IndyMeso* Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I think it would be better personally. I've noticed that I've learned to tune them out on Monday at 10 AM. I've had to ask several people if they heard them because I did not hear them and they actually had been set off. I'm in favor of not setting them off for testing every week because I think that people get used to them and when there is a threat, they may not actually hear the sirens because they have tuned them out from hearing them every week. You can take it a step further and only test them once a month and/or test them a few days before a severe weather event is expected if it is sunny out. This could be a sort of early warning that there may be severe storms in a couple of days. I don't really have a problem with the sirens sounding for 3 minutes. It's typically long enough to get peoples attention and to seek shelter or tune to the TV/radio. I don't think they should sound for the length of the warning if there is no confirmed tornado though as that would cause more 'siren fatigue'. I would have thought that with a confirmed tornado on the ground, the sirens would have been sounded the entire time the tornado was on the ground. How long do you think they should sound? It was a good decision to sound the sirens the second time, and when I heard them the second time, I knew a tornado was on the ground but I just didn't know where. I had suspected that based on radar it would either pass right over me or to the north of me so I took shelter in a closet on the SW side since there really is no safe place when you are on a slab with an open interior room. I'll have a shelter by next Spring though. That's what I would have thought too. But, I guess in his defense, as stated in the assessment, the first siren was set off at 5:11 CDT for 3 minutes. Then at 5:34 CDT, the tornado touched down and at 5:38 the second 3 minute siren was sounded by the emergency manager once he heard reported that a tornado was moving into Joplin. So, essentially he did not know there was a tornado on the ground until much later after the initial warning. It's a toss-up when it comes to how long they should sound. Maybe when there is a legit threat (like a history of producing a confirmed tornado or something to that effect) maybe sound them for 4-5 minutes instead of 3. This might make people aware that this is a legitimate threat. I don't know just kinda thinking outloud on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 That's what I would have thought too. But, I guess in his defense, as stated in the assessment, the first siren was set off at 5:11 CDT for 3 minutes. Then at 5:34 CDT, the tornado touched down and at 5:38 the second 3 minute siren was sounded by the emergency manager once he heard reported that a tornado was moving into Joplin. So, essentially he did not know there was a tornado on the ground until much later after the initial warning. It's a toss-up when it comes to how long they should sound. Maybe when there is a legit threat (like a history of producing a confirmed tornado or something to that effect) maybe sound them for 4-5 minutes instead of 3. This might make people aware that this is a legitimate threat. I don't know just kinda thinking outloud on that one. Yeah, when the first siren had sounded, there was no tornado on the ground. The second siren had a confirmed tornado on the ground. I would think that a confirmed tornado on the ground moving into Joplin would warrant the sirens being constantly ran until the tornado had passed. At least, that's how I would do it. Do the 3 minute siren for the warning or possibility of a tornado. Constant siren for a tornado on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*IndyMeso* Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Yeah, when the first siren had sounded, there was no tornado on the ground. The second siren had a confirmed tornado on the ground. I would think that a confirmed tornado on the ground moving into Joplin would warrant the sirens being constantly ran until the tornado had passed. At least, that's how I would do it. Do the 3 minute siren for the warning or possibility of a tornado. Constant siren for a tornado on the ground. I think that could work. I mean obviously it helped people when the siren sounded the second time so maybe if the siren is constantly sounding, people may (and hopefully) take it very seriously. You know what it kind reminds me of is "Night of the Twisters". I think in some point in the book and/or movie someone says "no the sirens are going off again, there's a tornado coming" or something to that effect. Haha I know I am a geek but it was the perfect movie when I got in my weather nerd phase when I was little. But nonetheless, they took the siren seriously and went to the basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Remember the video of the people in the cooler? Here's some of their stories: http://www.esquire.c...do-stories-1011 If you can't make it through the whole thing, you should at least read the last page: http://www.esquire.c...-stories-1011-5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanB Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Jomo, Truly an amazing and heartfelt story from those that survived the tornado. Definitely a emotional connection I am sure they will never lose with one another. Bryan Remember the video of the people in the cooler? Here's some of their stories:<a href='http://www.esquire.com/features/joplin-tornado-stories-1011' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'>http://www.esquire.c...do-stories-1011</a>If you can't make it through the whole thing, you should at least read the last page:<a href='http://www.esquire.com/features/joplin-tornado-stories-1011-5' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'>http://www.esquire.c...-stories-1011-5</a> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 It was announced earlier tonight that the school district hopes to have 2 elementary schools and East Middle School rebuilt by Dec 2013. Irving elementary will be built by the old St. Johns hospital location since they didn't like the parking and traffic situation at the old school location. Joplin High School and Franklin Tech will be rebuilt by Aug 2014. They will be taking demolition bids soon for the schools. Apparently, if you rebuild your home on the existing lot that you own, the insurance will pay you extra to do so. The school board hopes to acquire 80 residential lots around Franklin Tech and Joplin High School. The reason being, the high school sits in a flood plain and they need to move it if they want FEMA to pay 75% of the cost to rebuild the school. Some people had already started rebuilding on their lots and now the school district is attempting to buy those lots for 'fair market value' not taking into account those that want to rebuild and the insurance money they would acquire by doing so. They have started Eminent Domain proceedings against several people. Here's a pic of what they have or want as far as lots: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Coca-Cola announced the winners of the Livepostively favorite park contest. http://www.thecoca-c...-grants-to.html 1. Oak Park (Minot, ND)- $100,000 2. Soudan Underground Park (Ely, MN) - $50,000 3. Cunningham Park (Joplin, MO)- $25,000 Oak Park is owned and operated by the Minot Park District. Before it was damaged by a flood in 2011, it served as a gathering place for families, with a splash park, picnic shelters, walking trails, an accessible playground (Magic Smiles Playground), sand volleyball court and other amenities. The park plans to use the $100,000 recreation grant to help restore the park so families can be active together again. Soudan Underground Mine State Park near Ely is home to Minnesota's oldest iron ore mine, which operated from 1882 until 1962. In recent years, approximately 30,000 visitors annually have donned hard hats and descended a half-mile underground in a cage to take part in the interpretive programs within the historic mine. The park also offers tours of an underground physics lab, where scientists from around the world are studying how the universe works. Underground tours are not available at this time due to ongoing repair work from a fire in March 2011, but above-ground opportunities include interpretive programs, hiking and geocaching. Cunningham Park is Joplin's first city park, located in the southwest section of the city. On May 22, 2011, Cunningham was completely destroyed by a tornado that left the community without the tennis and basketball courts, playground and pool that made the park so popular. The park plans to use the $25,000 recreation grant to rebuild the playground and picnic shelters, plant trees and build a memorial dedicated to tornado victims and the many volunteers that aided in rescue and recovery. EDIT: If Irving is rebuilt where St. Johns was. This park is pretty much right across the street and will probably be really busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel975 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 That is awesome that the park is going to get a grant to rebuild!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel975 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Thank you for sharing this! These are some of the most detailed and moving stories I have read. My thoughts and prayers are still with everyone in Joplin! Remember the video of the people in the cooler? Here's some of their stories: http://www.esquire.c...do-stories-1011 If you can't make it through the whole thing, you should at least read the last page: http://www.esquire.c...-stories-1011-5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Interesting AP article written about St. Johns hospital again. It goes back to the night of the tornado and how things are going now. Destroyed Joplin Hospital - Workers Find a Way Back I've uploaded what St. Johns looked like in 1968 as it opened, and what it looked like a few weeks after the tornado: In other news, Extreme Makeover Home Edition will be working on Cunningham Park as well as building 7 homes in 7 Days. http://www.joplinglo...Cunningham-Park "Cotten did divulge one facet of the plan that has stoked his excitement over what’s to come for the park. “We do plan on resurrecting a fountain built there,” Cotten said. “When we were cleaning up the park after the tornado, we found a historic fountain” built in 1909. Old postcards of the park show the fountain at the bottom of a slope near a covered pavilion nestled in a grove of trees. Cotten also said the park plan calls for replacing the trees that were destroyed. “There were 116 trees destroyed by the storm,” he said. “Our plan is to replant all the trees and more.” And a little history about the park: The site of Cunningham Park was known in its early days for its stand of trees. Part of settler Thomas Cunningham’s 80-acre farm was known as Cunningham’s Grove. Cunningham eventually divided up his farm to sell lots to miners to build houses. In 1898, he served as mayor and donated a seven-acre tract of his grove to be Joplin’s first park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grothar Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Yeah, when the first siren had sounded, there was no tornado on the ground. The second siren had a confirmed tornado on the ground. I would think that a confirmed tornado on the ground moving into Joplin would warrant the sirens being constantly ran until the tornado had passed. At least, that's how I would do it. Do the 3 minute siren for the warning or possibility of a tornado. Constant siren for a tornado on the ground. Better yet, just sound a different type of siren horn pulse the second time, indicating the seriousness of the tornado warning (tornado sighted on the ground, or within in a certain distance). The cure would be these type of sirens as seen in this link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIDXV0e3uLI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 The area that the Huffman's live in is doing really well. It's not too far from me. I make note that it's building up fairly quickly over there when I take my monthly camera shots of the area. Some areas are slower moving of course, and there's still a lot of lots for sale by owner. http://www.whnt.com/sns-rt-us-tornado-joplintre791168-20111002,0,2804113.story JOPLIN, Mo (Reuters) - Four months ago, a tornado swept Rick and Jolene Huffman out of their house and dumped them unconscious into a clearing more than a block away. A harrowing way to lose their home and nearly their lives but the Huffmans are rebuilding on the same spot, undaunted by memories of the tornado or devastation of their neighborhood. *Construction contractor John Adams said houses in many neighborhoods destroyed by the tornado were 70 or more years old. People with patience and foresight will be rewarded for rebuilding, he said."Sooner or later they will be surrounded by new homes," Adams said. "It will probably be much nicer than it ever was." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on_wx Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 The area that the Huffman's live in is doing really well. It's not too far from me. I make note that it's building up fairly quickly over there when I take my monthly camera shots of the area. Some areas are slower moving of course, and there's still a lot of lots for sale by owner. http://www.whnt.com/...0,2804113.story JOPLIN, Mo (Reuters) - Four months ago, a tornado swept Rick and Jolene Huffman out of their house and dumped them unconscious into a clearing more than a block away. A harrowing way to lose their home and nearly their lives but the Huffmans are rebuilding on the same spot, undaunted by memories of the tornado or devastation of their neighborhood. *Construction contractor John Adams said houses in many neighborhoods destroyed by the tornado were 70 or more years old. People with patience and foresight will be rewarded for rebuilding, he said."Sooner or later they will be surrounded by new homes," Adams said. "It will probably be much nicer than it ever was." A couple questions about rebuilding. Are they expecting something like a post-Katrina landscape with a couple houses amidst a sea of empty lots? If so, any plans to buy out lots and fill them with perhaps trees or just try to sell them off over time(which seems more logical)? Also, how about tornado shelters? With everyone rebuilding how many shelters are we talking? Or are there plans for large community shelters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 A couple questions about rebuilding. Are they expecting something like a post-Katrina landscape with a couple houses amidst a sea of empty lots? If so, any plans to buy out lots and fill them with perhaps trees or just try to sell them off over time(which seems more logical)? Also, how about tornado shelters? With everyone rebuilding how many shelters are we talking? Or are there plans for large community shelters? I think the city is expecting all housing to be replaced, however I don't know if that's realistic considering how many lots are still for sale. The general thought is that once an area starts rebuilding, it will gradually 'fill in'. I've witnessed that over in my area with more homes being built around each other as time goes on. Some people are buying their neighbors lots in order to build a bigger house. There are some smaller lots that the city is not allowing rebuilding on. These are left over from the mining days and you couldn't really put a modern house on them. I'm unsure if the city is buying these or not though. Storm shelters are left up to the people rebuilding to decide. I've seen a few inner concrete shelters poured and I've talked to people that are planning doing the same thing. It adds a few thousand dollars to the rebuilding cost but I would put one in. There are houses that have rebuilt without them though. The city has applied for a FEMA grant to subsidize tornado shelters for those that want to get them, but the chances of getting that are fairly small. I have not heard about community shelters. I know there's a citizens planning committee that is looking at a variety of options on how to rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on_wx Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I think the city is expecting all housing to be replaced, however I don't know if that's realistic considering how many lots are still for sale. The general thought is that once an area starts rebuilding, it will gradually 'fill in'. I've witnessed that over in my area with more homes being built around each other as time goes on. Some people are buying their neighbors lots in order to build a bigger house. There are some smaller lots that the city is not allowing rebuilding on. These are left over from the mining days and you couldn't really put a modern house on them. I'm unsure if the city is buying these or not though. Storm shelters are left up to the people rebuilding to decide. I've seen a few inner concrete shelters poured and I've talked to people that are planning doing the same thing. It adds a few thousand dollars to the rebuilding cost but I would put one in. There are houses that have rebuilt without them though. The city has applied for a FEMA grant to subsidize tornado shelters for those that want to get them, but the chances of getting that are fairly small. I have not heard about community shelters. I know there's a citizens planning committee that is looking at a variety of options on how to rebuild. Seems a bit silly that people are rebuilding without using some of that insurance money to build a cellar. I think everyone here knows many won't build one. It happens time and again in tornado rebuilds, but man when an EF5 tears up half the city and kills hundreds, how can people just assume it wont happen again? How more apparent can it get... It reminds me off the TV show 'Greensburg' where that one family barely survived the tornado strike in their basement then rebuilt their lives in a modular home without a shelter. Just happy to have a home again. Tornado victim psychology 101 for another day. And for community shelters, surely some plazas or churches are going to be designates. Frankly sad to hear you haven't heard of any going up. There is a mall I frequent in Port Huron, Michigan and all around the shops are signs that say 'TORNADO SHELTER --->", if you follow the signs you go to a set of stairs to an underground area with two entrances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Seems a bit silly that people are rebuilding without using some of that insurance money to build a cellar. I think everyone here knows many won't build one. It happens time and again in tornado rebuilds, but man when an EF5 tears up half the city and kills hundreds, how can people just assume it wont happen again? How more apparent can it get... It reminds me off the TV show 'Greensburg' where that one family barely survived the tornado strike in their basement then rebuilt their lives in a modular home without a shelter. Just happy to have a home again. Tornado victim psychology 101 for another day. And for community shelters, surely some plazas or churches are going to be designates. Frankly sad to hear you haven't heard of any going up. There is a mall I frequent in Port Huron, Michigan and all around the shops are signs that say 'TORNADO SHELTER --->", if you follow the signs you go to a set of stairs to an underground area with two entrances. I guess people figure, what's the chance of it happening again? For many, it was a once in a lifetime event. Those old houses that were destroyed were 80+ years old. The water works filter building was closer to 100+ years old. Here's a postcard pic from 1906 showing the Filter station. It was completely destroyed by the tornado despite being removed from the actual track by several blocks. The Blendville station in the bottom left was damaged but can be repaired for historical purposes. http://cdm.sos.mo.gov/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/jplnpstcrds&CISOPTR=675&CISOBOX=1&REC=9 And since I'm already there, this was Joplin High School in 1961. Looks like the pic is taken about where the "Hope" High School sign would be. http://cdm.sos.mo.gov/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/jplnpstcrds&CISOPTR=703&CISOBOX=1&REC=11 It would be nice if some of the churches that built back would build underground storm shelters, but it's up to them. The mall has 10 indoor storm shelters but there aren't any labels in the mall pointing to where they are. The back parking lot has 37 storm shelters but those are for Joplin High School @ the Mall only, meaning they will be locked on the weekend. The problem with community shelters is the liability issue. You have to have someone that goes to the shelter to open the door. People may actually put themselves in harms way trying to get to the shelter when they would be safer at home. Also, the shelter is only secure if you lock the door, which means you may have to leave people out in the storm to die if they don't make it to the shelter in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 There are 44 guests here now. This must be linked somewhere... I am eagerly awaiting my pre-order video from Jeff and Kathryn Piotrowski. I saw a private clip they took that has not been seen before and it was a very big wedge as it was in my area. I was either in the edge of it or in the inflow jet. I've been needing to know what it looked like when it was here for some reason and that provided some closure. Paper did a story on the video: http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/x1190859094/Storm-chasers-video-of-Joplin-tornado-to-go-on-sale-locally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 I guess people figure, what's the chance of it happening again? For many, it was a once in a lifetime event. Those old houses that were destroyed were 80+ years old. The water works filter building was closer to 100+ years old. Here's a postcard pic from 1906 showing the Filter station. It was completely destroyed by the tornado despite being removed from the actual track by several blocks. The Blendville station in the bottom left was damaged but can be repaired for historical purposes. http://cdm.sos.mo.gov/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/jplnpstcrds&CISOPTR=675&CISOBOX=1&REC=9 And since I'm already there, this was Joplin High School in 1961. Looks like the pic is taken about where the "Hope" High School sign would be. http://cdm.sos.mo.gov/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/jplnpstcrds&CISOPTR=703&CISOBOX=1&REC=11 It would be nice if some of the churches that built back would build underground storm shelters, but it's up to them. The mall has 10 indoor storm shelters but there aren't any labels in the mall pointing to where they are. The back parking lot has 37 storm shelters but those are for Joplin High School @ the Mall only, meaning they will be locked on the weekend. The problem with community shelters is the liability issue. You have to have someone that goes to the shelter to open the door. People may actually put themselves in harms way trying to get to the shelter when they would be safer at home. Also, the shelter is only secure if you lock the door, which means you may have to leave people out in the storm to die if they don't make it to the shelter in time. Statistically unlikely of course, but for anyone who thinks it can't happen again in their lifetimes, look no further back than Moore, OK which was struck by violent tornadoes 4 years apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyhb Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Statistically unlikely of course, but for anyone who thinks it can't happen again in their lifetimes, look no further back than Moore, OK which was struck by violent tornadoes 4 years apart. Or Jackson, TN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 Or Jackson, TN. Yeah, I bet there are even more examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Statistically unlikely of course, but for anyone who thinks it can't happen again in their lifetimes, look no further back than Moore, OK which was struck by violent tornadoes 4 years apart. I usually say while it's unlikely, you can never say it won't happen again. Then I bring up the fact that Codell, KS was struck by a tornado on May 20 three years in a row: 1916, 1917, and 1918. Joplin is a very small urban area, which makes it a small target, but also makes it a big bullseye if a tornado strikes, meaning that even a small tornado cutting through the city will damage a lot of homes/businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyhb Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Tuscaloosa, AL/Yazoo City, MS/etc. Not to mention towns have been hit by multiple violent tornadoes in the same outbreaks (Tanner, AL - Super Outbreak, Elkhart, IN - Palm Sunday '65, Fridley, MN - May 6th, '65). Then I bring up the fact that Codell, KS was struck by a tornado on May 20 three years in a row: 1916, 1917, and 1918. Forgot about this one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 In today's episode........ Storm shelters. I keep forgetting to take the camera with me so I missed a few, but here's a couple I've seen. This looks like your standard inground shelter, but it's in kind of a weird place, maybe in the garage?: View from the back: Believe this is a concrete indoor shelter poured inside the house, missing the top still: And believe this is one being poured: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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