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May 24 Plains/MW Severe Threat


Helicity

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The three biggies are now rated at least EF4.

"THE THREE TORNADOES RATED AT LEAST EF-4 BELOW MAY BE RATED HIGHER... PENDING FURTHER

INVESTIGATION."

http://www.srh.noaa....s-20110524-pns1

From Rick Smith's (Norman WCM) Facebook:

We've upgraded three of the May 24th tornadoes - including the one that was headed toward my house and the one headed toward the office - to high-end EF4.

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941

NOUS44 KTSA 272321

PNSTSA

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE TULSA OK

621 PM CDT FRI MAY 27 2011

ARZ001-002-010-011-019-020-029-OKZ049-053>076-280130-

BENTON-CARROLL-WASHINGTON AR-MADISON-CRAWFORD-FRANKLIN-SEBASTIAN-

PUSHMATAHA-CHOCTAW-OSAGE-WASHINGTON OK-NOWATA-CRAIG-OTTAWA-PAWNEE-

TULSA-ROGERS-MAYES-DELAWARE-CREEK-OKFUSKEE-OKMULGEE-WAGONER-

CHEROKEE-ADAIR-MUSKOGEE-MCINTOSH-SEQUOYAH-PITTSBURG-HASKELL-

LATIMER-LE FLORE-

621 PM CDT FRI MAY 27 2011

..UPDATED RATING FOR THE MAY 24TH ETNA/DENNING TORNADO

AFTER REVIEWING THE SURVEY INFORMATION GATHERED THE PAST TWO

DAYS...THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN TULSA HAS UPGRADED THE

RATING OF THE ETNA/DENNING TORNADO FROM HIGH-END EF-3 TO LOW-END

EF-4 WITH MAXIMUM ESTIMATED WINDS AROUND 170 MPH.

THIS RATING IS BASED PRIMARILY ON THE DEGREE OF DAMAGE TO A WELL-

BUILT...WOOD-FRAMED HOUSE IN ETNA THAT WAS DESTROYED TO THE

FOUNDATION. THIS HOME...AS WELL AS SEVERAL OTHERS IN THIS PORTION

OF THE TORNADO PATH...WERE CONSTRUCTED WITH STEEL BOLTS ATTACHING

THE SILL PLATE TO THE FOUNDATION AND NAILING OF THE FRAME TO THE

SILL PLATE. SOME OF THE TREES IN THE AREA WERE DEBARKED AND THE

GROUND WAS SCOURED WITH THE EXTENSIVE DEBRIS THAT WAS GENERATED IN

THIS AREA.

A VERY WELL CONSTRUCTED STEEL-FRAMED...TWO-STORY HOME BETWEEN ETNA

AND THE ARKANSAS RIVER WAS ALSO CONSIDERED TO HAVE RECEIVED DAMAGE

IN THE LOW-END EF-4 RANGE. THIS HOME WAS CONSTRUCTED WITH ONE-

QUARTER INCH STEEL I-BEAMS WELDED TO STEEL PLATES HELD INTO THE

FOUNDATION WITH FOUR...FOUR-INCH STEEL J-BOLTS EACH. THE TORNADO

DESTROYED THIS HOUSE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF PORTIONS OF TWO SMALL

INTERIOR ROOMS THAT WERE INTENTIONALLY REINFORCED WITH EXTRA STEEL

BEAMS IN THE WALLS AND ROOF ABOVE THEM.

INFORMATION CONCERNING THIS TORNADO OUTBREAK CONTINUES TO BE

REVIEWED AND GATHERED.

OTHER TORNADOES THAT HAVE BEEN CONFIRMED THUS FAR INCLUDE...

WAGONER/WAGONER COUNTY

BEGIN...SOUTHEAST SIDE OF WAGONER

END...4 MILES EAST OF WAGONER

PATH LENGTH...4.4 MILES

MAX PATH WIDTH...450 YARDS

EF RATING...EF-2 WITH MAX WIND ABOUT 115 MPH

HEAVENER/LE FLORE COUNTY

BEGIN...5.3 MILES WEST OF HODGEN

END...2.2 MILES NORTHEAST OF HOWE

PATH LENGTH...12 MILES

MAX PATH WIDTH...1 MILE

EF RATING...EF-2 WITH MAX WIND ABOUT 115 MPH

HASKELL/MUSKOGEE COUNTY

BEGIN...2 MILES SOUTHWEST OF HASKELL

END...1 MILE SOUTHWEST OF REDBIRD

PATH LENGTH...TO BE DETERMINED

MAX PATH WIDTH...TO BE DETERMINED

EF RATING...EF-2 WITH MAX WIND ABOUT 125 MPH

DORA/SEQUOYAH THROUGH CRAWFORD COUNTIES

BEGIN...3.4 EAST NORTHEAST OF ROLAND

END...1.5 MILES SOUTHWEST OF RENA

PATH LENGTH...5.25 MILES

MAX PATH WIDTH...800 YARDS

EF RATING...EF-1 WITH MAX WIND ABOUT 105 MPH

PAWHUSKA/OSAGE COUNTY

BEGIN...10.6 MILES NORTHWEST OF HOMINY

END...4.7 MILES WEST NORTHWEST OF PAWHUSKA

PATH LENGTH...17 MILES

MAX PATH WIDTH...750 YARDS

EF RATING...EF-2 WITH MAX WIND ABOUT 115 MPH

HOMINY/OSAGE COUNTY

BEGIN...10 MILES WEST OF HOMINY

END...9 MILES WEST NORTHWEST OF HOMINY

PATH LENGTH...2.8 MILES

MAX PATH WIDTH...440 YARDS

EF RATING...EF-1 WITH MAX WIND ABOUT 95 MPH

EJC

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Michael Armstrong, a local meterologist here at KWTV in OKC, just went on air at 10:00 stating there are "whispers" of radar data collected of the El Reno/Piedmont tornado that indicate max winds stronger than what was recorded during the Bridge Creek/Moore tornado of May 3, 1999. I don't know what his sources are, but I trust him. That would be absolutely incredible.

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Michael Armstrong, a local meterologist here at KWTV in OKC, just went on air at 10:00 stating there are "whispers" of radar data collected of the El Reno/Piedmont tornado that indicate max winds stronger than what was recorded during the Bridge Creek/Moore tornado of May 3, 1999. I don't know what his sources are, but I trust him. That would be absolutely incredible.

If this is true then OKC/Edmund dodged a massive bullet with that tornado. EF-4 is one thing but when we are talking >250 mph winds that is just extraordinary.

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Michael Armstrong, a local meterologist here at KWTV in OKC, just went on air at 10:00 stating there are "whispers" of radar data collected of the El Reno/Piedmont tornado that indicate max winds stronger than what was recorded during the Bridge Creek/Moore tornado of May 3, 1999. I don't know what his sources are, but I trust him. That would be absolutely incredible.

Wow, that's incredible. Wasn't the Bridge Creek/Moore tornado measured by one of the DOWs at over 290mph off the surface?

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Yeah I have to believe it wasn't higher than that, because if it was that is just unfathomable.

I agree. It's hard for me to believe that a wind speed such as that was obtained. Of course, I also find it hard to believe the El Reno Mesonet site recorded a wind gust of 150 MPH, and it didn't even take a direct hit from the tornado, supposedly. It was on the outer ring.

It also makes me wonder what wind speeds have been attained in other tornadoes not sampled by Doppler on Wheels.

It also still gives me chills that this beast passed about 7 miles from my house.

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Yeah I have to believe it wasn't higher than that, because if it was that is just unfathomable.

Do we really know though? Yeah, it's probably safe to assume that tornadoes don't produce 500 mph winds, but is something like 330 mph that far-fetched?

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One thing I forgot to mention about this tornado. A group of us went to a friend's house that evening that had an underground shelter. After the wives and 4 kids squeezed inside, I went outside to take a look at the storm as it was passing north. I heard what I thought was a continuous low thunder, lasting a couple of minutes at least. However, after talking to other people in the area, I believe I was actually hearing the tornado itself. The house we were at was at least 5 miles from the tornado. Very flat, few trees or structures between that house and the tornado. Do people here think it's possible to hear a tornado of that magnitude from 5 miles away?

I felt like a tiny speck on the ground seeing the inflow going into that storm. The entire atmosphere above me was flowing into that thing.

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Yeah I have to believe it wasn't higher than that, because if it was that is just unfathomable.

I know winds arent everything when determining the EF-rating. I think it is just an estimate to what type of damage may be expected in association with that wind speed. If you are talking windspeeds being estimated on radar of 280-320mph that is almost out of this world crazy. Do you know if any windspeeds were estimated on radar for the Tusacaloosa, Hackleburg, Smithville/Shotsville, Philadelphia, or Joplin tornadoes? I know that radar may clock higher windspeeds inside tornadoes even though they may not be required to cause that associated type of damage. Here was the estimated windspeed for each of them in association to the damage Tuscalossa(190mph), Hackleburg(210mph), Smithville/Shotsville(205mph), Philadelphia(205 mph), and Joplin(220-250mph). Also I will include the Greensburg and Parkesburg tornadoes which had estimated winds of about 205mph. Even if a few of them tornadoes in OK get upgraded to EF5 they will most likely have winds estimated between (200-220mph) in respect to the damage, although winds clocked may have been much higher.

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Michael Armstrong, a local meterologist here at KWTV in OKC, just went on air at 10:00 stating there are "whispers" of radar data collected of the El Reno/Piedmont tornado that indicate max winds stronger than what was recorded during the Bridge Creek/Moore tornado of May 3, 1999. I don't know what his sources are, but I trust him. That would be absolutely incredible.

This is not accurate, that's all I can say at this point.

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One thing I forgot to mention about this tornado. A group of us went to a friend's house that evening that had an underground shelter. After the wives and 4 kids squeezed inside, I went outside to take a look at the storm as it was passing north. I heard what I thought was a continuous low thunder, lasting a couple of minutes at least. However, after talking to other people in the area, I believe I was actually hearing the tornado itself. The house we were at was at least 5 miles from the tornado. Very flat, few trees or structures between that house and the tornado. Do people here think it's possible to hear a tornado of that magnitude from 5 miles away?

I felt like a tiny speck on the ground seeing the inflow going into that storm. The entire atmosphere above me was flowing into that thing.

During the March 1984 carolina outbreak we had an F4 pass within 4-5 miles of my house. I was 9 at the time and I remember my parents freaking out when they went outside and could hear the tornado. So yes I believe it is certainly plausible that a tornadoes of such strong wind speeds can be heard for longer distances.

I also experienced this when I went through the eye of hurricane Bertha in 1996. As the eye was moving overhead we could start to hear the rumble of the winds coming on the back side for a solid 5+ minutes as the hurricane force winds were coming closer. It was just an ever growing loud rumble.

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I was under the impression that it's rare to hear tornadoes at that distance. I guess there are multiple factors that go into it. Years ago I remember hearing the wind 2-3 minutes before an intense bow echo (trees were not moving at my location), but that would've only been a couple miles.

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I know winds arent everything when determining the EF-rating. I think it is just an estimate to what type of damage may be expected in association with that wind speed. If you are talking windspeeds being estimated on radar of 280-320mph that is almost out of this world crazy. Do you know if any windspeeds were estimated on radar for the Tusacaloosa, Hackleburg, Smithville/Shotsville, Philadelphia, or Joplin tornadoes? I know that radar may clock higher windspeeds inside tornadoes even though they may not be required to cause that associated type of damage. Here was the estimated windspeed for each of them in association to the damage Tuscalossa(190mph), Hackleburg(210mph), Smithville/Shotsville(205mph), Philadelphia(205 mph), and Joplin(220-250mph). Also I will include the Greensburg and Parkesburg tornadoes which had estimated winds of about 205mph. Even if a few of them tornadoes in OK get upgraded to EF5 they will most likely have winds estimated between (200-220mph) in respect to the damage, although winds clocked may have been much higher.

where on earth are you coming up with half of these wind speed estimates?

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This is not accurate, that's all I can say at this point.

There were no direct 10-m wind speeds from the may 3 tornado - the only measurement I am aware of is the 301+-17 by DOW, which was much higher within the funnel.

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There were no direct 10-m wind speeds from the may 3 tornado - the only measurement I am aware of is the 301+-17 by DOW, which was much higher within the funnel.

I think he was saying that in response to recorded Doppler winds in the El Reno tornado being in excess of that.

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Do we really know though? Yeah, it's probably safe to assume that tornadoes don't produce 500 mph winds, but is something like 330 mph that far-fetched?

No of course not. Its more unbelievable that it could happen than that it did happen.

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I think he was saying that in response to recorded Doppler winds in the El Reno tornado being in excess of that.

Ahhh, I see - well regardless, the 150 mph mesonet gust is pretty amazing.

They're all from the NWS survey reports themselves.

I think I misread the original post a bit. I don't think Springfield WFO mentioned a specific range like that though for Joplin... right now it's just listed as 200+. Where did you hear those numbers?

Edit: I just read the post about Forbes. My forum reading skills have clearly taken a dive over the past few days unsure.gif

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Some random trivia as we await ratings from Norman. IF all three potentially EF5 tornadoes receive EF5 designation, then Oklahoma will join Indiana as the only state to be struck by 3 EF5 tornadoes on the same day, which occurred in Indiana on 4/3/74. Additionally, 5/24/11 would go down as only the third date in recorded history with three tornadoes receiving EF5 designation, the other two being 4/3/74 and 4/27/11.

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That is what NWS rated the tornadoes based on the damage. Those were the assigned wind speeds given from NWS offices for them tornadoes.

yeah, that post was a product of me failing to read thoroughly, not you posting misinformation. My apologies.

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