huronicane Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 The three biggies are now rated at least EF4. "THE THREE TORNADOES RATED AT LEAST EF-4 BELOW MAY BE RATED HIGHER... PENDING FURTHER INVESTIGATION." http://www.srh.noaa....s-20110524-pns1 From Rick Smith's (Norman WCM) Facebook: We've upgraded three of the May 24th tornadoes - including the one that was headed toward my house and the one headed toward the office - to high-end EF4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewxmann Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 The three biggies are now rated at least EF4. "THE THREE TORNADOES RATED AT LEAST EF-4 BELOW MAY BE RATED HIGHER... PENDING FURTHER INVESTIGATION." http://www.srh.noaa....s-20110524-pns1 Over/under: 1.5 EF5s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornadotony Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Over/under: 1.5 EF5s? I'll take the over. It is more often than not (though obviously not always) that if an upgrade is mentioned that the upgrade is made. Safe bet is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Over/under: 1.5 EF5s? Over, I'll say 2, El Reno and Goldsby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornadotony Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 941 NOUS44 KTSA 272321 PNSTSA PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE TULSA OK 621 PM CDT FRI MAY 27 2011 ARZ001-002-010-011-019-020-029-OKZ049-053>076-280130- BENTON-CARROLL-WASHINGTON AR-MADISON-CRAWFORD-FRANKLIN-SEBASTIAN- PUSHMATAHA-CHOCTAW-OSAGE-WASHINGTON OK-NOWATA-CRAIG-OTTAWA-PAWNEE- TULSA-ROGERS-MAYES-DELAWARE-CREEK-OKFUSKEE-OKMULGEE-WAGONER- CHEROKEE-ADAIR-MUSKOGEE-MCINTOSH-SEQUOYAH-PITTSBURG-HASKELL- LATIMER-LE FLORE- 621 PM CDT FRI MAY 27 2011 ..UPDATED RATING FOR THE MAY 24TH ETNA/DENNING TORNADO AFTER REVIEWING THE SURVEY INFORMATION GATHERED THE PAST TWO DAYS...THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN TULSA HAS UPGRADED THE RATING OF THE ETNA/DENNING TORNADO FROM HIGH-END EF-3 TO LOW-END EF-4 WITH MAXIMUM ESTIMATED WINDS AROUND 170 MPH. THIS RATING IS BASED PRIMARILY ON THE DEGREE OF DAMAGE TO A WELL- BUILT...WOOD-FRAMED HOUSE IN ETNA THAT WAS DESTROYED TO THE FOUNDATION. THIS HOME...AS WELL AS SEVERAL OTHERS IN THIS PORTION OF THE TORNADO PATH...WERE CONSTRUCTED WITH STEEL BOLTS ATTACHING THE SILL PLATE TO THE FOUNDATION AND NAILING OF THE FRAME TO THE SILL PLATE. SOME OF THE TREES IN THE AREA WERE DEBARKED AND THE GROUND WAS SCOURED WITH THE EXTENSIVE DEBRIS THAT WAS GENERATED IN THIS AREA. A VERY WELL CONSTRUCTED STEEL-FRAMED...TWO-STORY HOME BETWEEN ETNA AND THE ARKANSAS RIVER WAS ALSO CONSIDERED TO HAVE RECEIVED DAMAGE IN THE LOW-END EF-4 RANGE. THIS HOME WAS CONSTRUCTED WITH ONE- QUARTER INCH STEEL I-BEAMS WELDED TO STEEL PLATES HELD INTO THE FOUNDATION WITH FOUR...FOUR-INCH STEEL J-BOLTS EACH. THE TORNADO DESTROYED THIS HOUSE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF PORTIONS OF TWO SMALL INTERIOR ROOMS THAT WERE INTENTIONALLY REINFORCED WITH EXTRA STEEL BEAMS IN THE WALLS AND ROOF ABOVE THEM. INFORMATION CONCERNING THIS TORNADO OUTBREAK CONTINUES TO BE REVIEWED AND GATHERED. OTHER TORNADOES THAT HAVE BEEN CONFIRMED THUS FAR INCLUDE... WAGONER/WAGONER COUNTY BEGIN...SOUTHEAST SIDE OF WAGONER END...4 MILES EAST OF WAGONER PATH LENGTH...4.4 MILES MAX PATH WIDTH...450 YARDS EF RATING...EF-2 WITH MAX WIND ABOUT 115 MPH HEAVENER/LE FLORE COUNTY BEGIN...5.3 MILES WEST OF HODGEN END...2.2 MILES NORTHEAST OF HOWE PATH LENGTH...12 MILES MAX PATH WIDTH...1 MILE EF RATING...EF-2 WITH MAX WIND ABOUT 115 MPH HASKELL/MUSKOGEE COUNTY BEGIN...2 MILES SOUTHWEST OF HASKELL END...1 MILE SOUTHWEST OF REDBIRD PATH LENGTH...TO BE DETERMINED MAX PATH WIDTH...TO BE DETERMINED EF RATING...EF-2 WITH MAX WIND ABOUT 125 MPH DORA/SEQUOYAH THROUGH CRAWFORD COUNTIES BEGIN...3.4 EAST NORTHEAST OF ROLAND END...1.5 MILES SOUTHWEST OF RENA PATH LENGTH...5.25 MILES MAX PATH WIDTH...800 YARDS EF RATING...EF-1 WITH MAX WIND ABOUT 105 MPH PAWHUSKA/OSAGE COUNTY BEGIN...10.6 MILES NORTHWEST OF HOMINY END...4.7 MILES WEST NORTHWEST OF PAWHUSKA PATH LENGTH...17 MILES MAX PATH WIDTH...750 YARDS EF RATING...EF-2 WITH MAX WIND ABOUT 115 MPH HOMINY/OSAGE COUNTY BEGIN...10 MILES WEST OF HOMINY END...9 MILES WEST NORTHWEST OF HOMINY PATH LENGTH...2.8 MILES MAX PATH WIDTH...440 YARDS EF RATING...EF-1 WITH MAX WIND ABOUT 95 MPH EJC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArkieOkie Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 DORA/SEQUOYAH THROUGH CRAWFORD COUNTIES BEGIN...3.4 EAST NORTHEAST OF ROLAND END...1.5 MILES SOUTHWEST OF RENA PATH LENGTH...5.25 MILES MAX PATH WIDTH...800 YARDS EF RATING...EF-1 WITH MAX WIND ABOUT 105 MPH That was close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natecast Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Michael Armstrong, a local meterologist here at KWTV in OKC, just went on air at 10:00 stating there are "whispers" of radar data collected of the El Reno/Piedmont tornado that indicate max winds stronger than what was recorded during the Bridge Creek/Moore tornado of May 3, 1999. I don't know what his sources are, but I trust him. That would be absolutely incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Michael Armstrong, a local meterologist here at KWTV in OKC, just went on air at 10:00 stating there are "whispers" of radar data collected of the El Reno/Piedmont tornado that indicate max winds stronger than what was recorded during the Bridge Creek/Moore tornado of May 3, 1999. I don't know what his sources are, but I trust him. That would be absolutely incredible. If this is true then OKC/Edmund dodged a massive bullet with that tornado. EF-4 is one thing but when we are talking >250 mph winds that is just extraordinary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclone77 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Michael Armstrong, a local meterologist here at KWTV in OKC, just went on air at 10:00 stating there are "whispers" of radar data collected of the El Reno/Piedmont tornado that indicate max winds stronger than what was recorded during the Bridge Creek/Moore tornado of May 3, 1999. I don't know what his sources are, but I trust him. That would be absolutely incredible. Wow, that's incredible. Wasn't the Bridge Creek/Moore tornado measured by one of the DOWs at over 290mph off the surface? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundersnow12 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Wow, that's incredible. Wasn't the Bridge Creek/Moore tornado measured by one of the DOWs at over 290mph off the surface? It was 318mph and I thought we would never see that number again. It's hard to believe that a wind speed was recorded that high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 It was 318mph and I thought we would never see that number again. It's hard to believe that a wind speed was recorded that high. Yeah I have to believe it wasn't higher than that, because if it was that is just unfathomable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huronicane Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 It was 318mph and I thought we would never see that number again. It's hard to believe that a wind speed was recorded that high. 301 ± 20 mph from the DOW Source: http://cswr.org/dow/DOW.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natecast Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Yeah I have to believe it wasn't higher than that, because if it was that is just unfathomable. I agree. It's hard for me to believe that a wind speed such as that was obtained. Of course, I also find it hard to believe the El Reno Mesonet site recorded a wind gust of 150 MPH, and it didn't even take a direct hit from the tornado, supposedly. It was on the outer ring. It also makes me wonder what wind speeds have been attained in other tornadoes not sampled by Doppler on Wheels. It also still gives me chills that this beast passed about 7 miles from my house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Yeah I have to believe it wasn't higher than that, because if it was that is just unfathomable. Do we really know though? Yeah, it's probably safe to assume that tornadoes don't produce 500 mph winds, but is something like 330 mph that far-fetched? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natecast Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 One thing I forgot to mention about this tornado. A group of us went to a friend's house that evening that had an underground shelter. After the wives and 4 kids squeezed inside, I went outside to take a look at the storm as it was passing north. I heard what I thought was a continuous low thunder, lasting a couple of minutes at least. However, after talking to other people in the area, I believe I was actually hearing the tornado itself. The house we were at was at least 5 miles from the tornado. Very flat, few trees or structures between that house and the tornado. Do people here think it's possible to hear a tornado of that magnitude from 5 miles away? I felt like a tiny speck on the ground seeing the inflow going into that storm. The entire atmosphere above me was flowing into that thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjack123 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Yeah I have to believe it wasn't higher than that, because if it was that is just unfathomable. I know winds arent everything when determining the EF-rating. I think it is just an estimate to what type of damage may be expected in association with that wind speed. If you are talking windspeeds being estimated on radar of 280-320mph that is almost out of this world crazy. Do you know if any windspeeds were estimated on radar for the Tusacaloosa, Hackleburg, Smithville/Shotsville, Philadelphia, or Joplin tornadoes? I know that radar may clock higher windspeeds inside tornadoes even though they may not be required to cause that associated type of damage. Here was the estimated windspeed for each of them in association to the damage Tuscalossa(190mph), Hackleburg(210mph), Smithville/Shotsville(205mph), Philadelphia(205 mph), and Joplin(220-250mph). Also I will include the Greensburg and Parkesburg tornadoes which had estimated winds of about 205mph. Even if a few of them tornadoes in OK get upgraded to EF5 they will most likely have winds estimated between (200-220mph) in respect to the damage, although winds clocked may have been much higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Michael Armstrong, a local meterologist here at KWTV in OKC, just went on air at 10:00 stating there are "whispers" of radar data collected of the El Reno/Piedmont tornado that indicate max winds stronger than what was recorded during the Bridge Creek/Moore tornado of May 3, 1999. I don't know what his sources are, but I trust him. That would be absolutely incredible. This is not accurate, that's all I can say at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 One thing I forgot to mention about this tornado. A group of us went to a friend's house that evening that had an underground shelter. After the wives and 4 kids squeezed inside, I went outside to take a look at the storm as it was passing north. I heard what I thought was a continuous low thunder, lasting a couple of minutes at least. However, after talking to other people in the area, I believe I was actually hearing the tornado itself. The house we were at was at least 5 miles from the tornado. Very flat, few trees or structures between that house and the tornado. Do people here think it's possible to hear a tornado of that magnitude from 5 miles away? I felt like a tiny speck on the ground seeing the inflow going into that storm. The entire atmosphere above me was flowing into that thing. During the March 1984 carolina outbreak we had an F4 pass within 4-5 miles of my house. I was 9 at the time and I remember my parents freaking out when they went outside and could hear the tornado. So yes I believe it is certainly plausible that a tornadoes of such strong wind speeds can be heard for longer distances. I also experienced this when I went through the eye of hurricane Bertha in 1996. As the eye was moving overhead we could start to hear the rumble of the winds coming on the back side for a solid 5+ minutes as the hurricane force winds were coming closer. It was just an ever growing loud rumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I was under the impression that it's rare to hear tornadoes at that distance. I guess there are multiple factors that go into it. Years ago I remember hearing the wind 2-3 minutes before an intense bow echo (trees were not moving at my location), but that would've only been a couple miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpeters3 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I know winds arent everything when determining the EF-rating. I think it is just an estimate to what type of damage may be expected in association with that wind speed. If you are talking windspeeds being estimated on radar of 280-320mph that is almost out of this world crazy. Do you know if any windspeeds were estimated on radar for the Tusacaloosa, Hackleburg, Smithville/Shotsville, Philadelphia, or Joplin tornadoes? I know that radar may clock higher windspeeds inside tornadoes even though they may not be required to cause that associated type of damage. Here was the estimated windspeed for each of them in association to the damage Tuscalossa(190mph), Hackleburg(210mph), Smithville/Shotsville(205mph), Philadelphia(205 mph), and Joplin(220-250mph). Also I will include the Greensburg and Parkesburg tornadoes which had estimated winds of about 205mph. Even if a few of them tornadoes in OK get upgraded to EF5 they will most likely have winds estimated between (200-220mph) in respect to the damage, although winds clocked may have been much higher. where on earth are you coming up with half of these wind speed estimates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpeters3 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 This is not accurate, that's all I can say at this point. There were no direct 10-m wind speeds from the may 3 tornado - the only measurement I am aware of is the 301+-17 by DOW, which was much higher within the funnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hm8 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Forbes on the wind speeds... Dr. Greg Forbes Somebody asked yesterday about the wind speed in the Joplin, MO tornado that was rated EF5. NWS now estimates 225-250 mph. I believe that this is the fastest estimate since the EF-Scale was introduced in 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huronicane Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 There were no direct 10-m wind speeds from the may 3 tornado - the only measurement I am aware of is the 301+-17 by DOW, which was much higher within the funnel. I think he was saying that in response to recorded Doppler winds in the El Reno tornado being in excess of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gymengineer Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 where on earth are you coming up with half of these wind speed estimates? They're all from the NWS survey reports themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Do we really know though? Yeah, it's probably safe to assume that tornadoes don't produce 500 mph winds, but is something like 330 mph that far-fetched? No of course not. Its more unbelievable that it could happen than that it did happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpeters3 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I think he was saying that in response to recorded Doppler winds in the El Reno tornado being in excess of that. Ahhh, I see - well regardless, the 150 mph mesonet gust is pretty amazing. They're all from the NWS survey reports themselves. I think I misread the original post a bit. I don't think Springfield WFO mentioned a specific range like that though for Joplin... right now it's just listed as 200+. Where did you hear those numbers? Edit: I just read the post about Forbes. My forum reading skills have clearly taken a dive over the past few days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjack123 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 where on earth are you coming up with half of these wind speed estimates? That is what NWS rated the tornadoes based on the damage. Those were the assigned wind speeds given from NWS offices for them tornadoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornadotony Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Some random trivia as we await ratings from Norman. IF all three potentially EF5 tornadoes receive EF5 designation, then Oklahoma will join Indiana as the only state to be struck by 3 EF5 tornadoes on the same day, which occurred in Indiana on 4/3/74. Additionally, 5/24/11 would go down as only the third date in recorded history with three tornadoes receiving EF5 designation, the other two being 4/3/74 and 4/27/11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkrangers Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 This is not accurate, that's all I can say at this point. Why so secretive? We're talking tornadoes, not national security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpeters3 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 That is what NWS rated the tornadoes based on the damage. Those were the assigned wind speeds given from NWS offices for them tornadoes. yeah, that post was a product of me failing to read thoroughly, not you posting misinformation. My apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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