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NE OK/ NW AR/ SE KS/ SW MO Winter 2010


JoMo

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Yep it looks to definately get colder by turkey day! Beginning of the week and my b-day looks to be really warm....maybe ill start hanging outside xmas decorations on the warmer days

All I know is I need some actual weather, or something other than showers or sunshine.

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All I know is I need some actual weather, or something other than showers or sunshine.

I hear ya man Im tired of this boring warmth. Yea i know its only november but Im tired of cutting grass or seeing rain. I really hope it turns cold like they are saying and stays that way now. Will probly get cold for a few days then right back to warm again haha

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Just found this place! I didn't post at the other board often, and when I did it was usually on this thread. I'm lovin' the fall weather and hoping for a fun winter. By the way...the snow we got here on Christmas was my very first white Christmas. How sad is that?

Glad you found it here as well....welcome aboard! Last winters xmas eve/xmas day was my first white xmas as well! It was so awesome but whats the chance of it ever happening again especially down this way lol

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AREA FORECAST DISCUSSIONNATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE SPRINGFIELD MO255 PM CST SUN NOV 21 2010

THE COLD AIR MAY INFILTRATE THE REGION QUICK ENOUGH TO RESULT IN BRIEF WINTRY MIX BEFORE THE PRECIPITATION ENDS LATE WEDNESDAY NIGHT AND EARLY THURSDAY MORNING. AT THIS TIME...SIGNIFICANT WINTER PRECIPITATION IS NOT EXPECTED DURING THE THANKSGIVING HOLIDAY.

Also 18z GFS with snowmegeddon for OK/AR in the long range. lolol

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AREA FORECAST DISCUSSIONNATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE SPRINGFIELD MO255 PM CST SUN NOV 21 2010

THE COLD AIR MAY INFILTRATE THE REGION QUICK ENOUGH TO RESULT IN BRIEF WINTRY MIX BEFORE THE PRECIPITATION ENDS LATE WEDNESDAY NIGHT AND EARLY THURSDAY MORNING. AT THIS TIME...SIGNIFICANT WINTER PRECIPITATION IS NOT EXPECTED DURING THE THANKSGIVING HOLIDAY.

Also 18z GFS with snowmegeddon for OK/AR in the long range. lolol

Noticed that (the 18Z lolng-range) too. Shows a low of 3F for KTUL on 12/7 (between 372h and 384h). Snow depth for KTUL is around 9"; large >16" area in the heart of AR into the TN-MS border area. That looks like a southern stream storm... I thought this was a La Niña with no southern stream. While the 18Z may not be correct, I do expect this to be no ordinary La Niña. After all, who (of the "This is Niña and nothing else matters!" people) could have guessed the "ultra-strong" PV was going to split in late November, sending the NAO to around -3 (with some ensemble members showing an all-time record -3.4) and the AO to around -4 (a far cry from the record of around -7.5, but still super-low)?

Here is the snow depth map:

gfs32010112118f384snowi.png

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Noticed that (the 18Z lolng-range) too. Shows a low of 3F for KTUL on 12/7 (between 372h and 384h). Snow depth for KTUL is around 9"; large >16" area in the heart of AR into the TN-MS border area. That looks like a southern stream storm... I thought this was a La Niña with no southern stream. While the 18Z may not be correct, I do expect this to be no ordinary La Niña. After all, who (of the "This is Niña and nothing else matters!" people) could have guessed the "ultra-strong" PV was going to split in late November, sending the NAO to around -3 (with some ensemble members showing an all-time record -3.4) and the AO to around -4 (a far cry from the record of around -7.5, but still super-low)?

Here is the snow depth map:

gfs32010112118f384snowi.png

A lot of Nina years have above average precip in DJF in the OV/TN Valley region but not really from a strong STJ. This Nina could be quirky as far as blocking potential though so I agree. Don Sutherland has posted some research which hints at greater blocking potential in winters following those with extreme blocking. Although it's difficult to envision it being as frequent/extreme as last winter.

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This has got to be the warmest birthday I have ever expierienced lol. And look at that giant donut hole on that twister map....yuck! Wait it looks more like a whale haha.

Happy Birthday. I was just outside putting weather stripping on and doing some other outdoorsy things. Looks like the cold front is firing storms along it to our west.

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18z NAM is showing cold air undercutting the precip

Cold air undercutting precip would lead to freezing rain or possibly sleet, not snow. Apparently the NAM is showing more of a "bulldozer" solution with the front instead of an "undercutter" solution. Keep in mind that one bias of the NAM is to show bulldozers too often in the long-range (i.e., not many ice storms show up on hr 84). However, another bias of the NAM is to be too slow with the progression of cold air (the opposite of the GFS).

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Cold air undercutting precip would lead to freezing rain or possibly sleet, not snow. Apparently the NAM is showing more of a "bulldozer" solution with the front instead of an "undercutter" solution. Keep in mind that one bias of the NAM is to show bulldozers too often in the long-range (i.e., not many ice storms show up on hr 84). However, another bias of the NAM is to be too slow with the progression of cold air (the opposite of the GFS).

850's would suggest that the precip would not be snow @ 72 when the precip is still falling

NAM_221_2010112218_F72_TMPC_850_MB.png

Cold 925's may make up for it though.

NAM_221_2010112218_F72_TMPC_925_MB.png

However at 75, it does show the 850 front sharpening up and it would probably turn more to snow then.

Of course this is all dependent on the cold air and the NAM being right....... 72+ hour out... lol

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Come on now jomo we are talking about the Nam here....you know better by now haha

yep, it's highly conditional on the NAM being right with the thermal fields this far in advance. I had been expecting something like this though since the trough axis will still be to our west. If the models start moving towards it, then it will be something to watch.

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850's would suggest that the precip would not be snow @ 72 when the precip is still falling

NAM_221_2010112218_F72_TMPC_850_MB.png

Cold 925's may make up for it though.

NAM_221_2010112218_F72_TMPC_925_MB.png

However at 75, it does show the 850 front sharpening up and it would probably turn more to snow then.

Of course this is all dependent on the cold air and the NAM being right....... 72+ hour out... lol

BUFKIT of that NAM says freezing rain and ice pellets all the way to the end. Zero snow.

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BUFKIT of that NAM says freezing rain and ice pellets all the way to the end. Zero snow.

Yeah I looked at the extracted data a bit later and there appears to be a warm layer between 700-800 MB that would keep it sleet/freezing rain.

The GFS would have none of this though and it is the NAM so it probably won't happen at all.

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