HoarfrostHubb Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 It seems though we don't need significant jet dynamics to get the heavier rains. I do agree that a deep ULL is need to grab significant PWAT air from the sub tropics and rip it on north. The mother's day flood was interesting in that it had a nice 850ish or so jet pumping in very warm and moist air, but also an e-ne LLJ that also focused convergence in the low levels over eastern and especially ne mass. Coastal frontogenesis in a way. Indeed this setup might be too aggressive on the euro, but it's interesting to look at. I don't have any feelings either way, but just from a met standpoint. As far a marine meteorology, I do find nor'easters interesting. I love a good tstm, but lets face it...this is SNE. I think it's eastern areas of SNE that tend to have more dynamic wx from coastal storm impacts..whether it be due to coastal fronts, deformation, or S+ being whipped around by 40+kt winds. To me, seeing snow whipped around and drifting beats getting an extra inch or two of fluff in the interior due to ratios, but again..it is all subjective.Obviously, the interior averages more snow, but I'm talking more in the way of a single event where Ray gets 13" and I get 11" or something like that. Yeah, being on the coast gives you and esp. Phil and Messenger the wind factor which in winter events is awesome. When the snow gets all plastered to everything you can't beat it. I'm still happy with my yearly totals... Maybe next year interior elevations will cash in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 That's coming for an extended period around May 20th give or take a few days weeks Well, by then it is July... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Yeah, being on the coast gives you and esp. Phil and Messenger the wind factor which in winter events is awesome. When the snow gets all plastered to everything you can't beat it. I'm still happy with my yearly totals... Maybe next year interior elevations will cash in Yeah I mean there is no question you guys get more snow, but for me...I love the ferocity of storms. Like John said, it's a product of where you grew up. If I lived where Pete lived...I'm sure I would love rotted lake effect and the significant snowpack retention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 Yeah I mean there is no question you guys get more snow, but for me...I love the ferocity of storms. Like John said, it's a product of where you grew up. If I lived where Pete lived...I'm sure I would love rotted lake effect and the significant snowpack retention. Does Boston really get much more wind in winter storms than someone like Ray, a little inland? To me, places like Cape Ann, Hull, and Cape Cod itself are the places to be. Obviously they are not sheltered at all and face the full brunt. Boston I'm sure at times gets the real ferocious storms ('78, etc), but is seems a little sheltered, despite being on the water. Maybe having more of a southerly face makes a difference? Probably why Boston became a seaport to begin with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Clouds breaking inland now midday AMOUT Chilly raw windy AMOUFWWGO As Most of Us Feel When We Go Outside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Chilly raw windy AMOUFWWGO As Most of Us Feel When We Go Outside Disaster MidMay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Does Boston really get much more wind in winter storms than someone like Ray, a little inland? To me, places like Cape Ann, Hull, and Cape Cod itself are the places to be. Obviously they are not sheltered at all and face the full brunt. Boston I'm sure at times gets the real ferocious storms ('78, etc), but is seems a little sheltered, despite being on the water. Maybe having more of a southerly face makes a difference? Probably why Boston became a seaport to begin with... Part of the reason why areas inland like Brockton get more wind then areas inland like where Ray is, is due to the coastal front. Coastal fronts as you know separate areas of more marine air (although this too can be quite cold) vs a more polar or arctic air. The colder air is more stable and creates an inversion where winds can't mix down like they could in a more warmer, marine environment. Of course in the interior, friction also reduces wind...but I had many storms with strong winds growing up in Brockton..simply because they were able to mix down being on the other side of the CF from time to time. Boston has the same issue. Many times the CF is south of them and instead of 40kt ne winds...it might be more 25-30kt north winds with a temp in the 20s...or even teens. Sometimes you can get very strong winds in the interior like we saw in the Boxing day storm, ...that storm had stronger winds on Orange as compared to Boston. However, that's kind of the exception. As you said...northeast exposed areas like Hull, Cape Ann..etc definitely get the brunt of the winds in many coastals. I think BOS would do better with a wind that's more like 050--090 or something like that. Coastal fronts aren't always the rain snow line either. Many areas this winter had heavy snows on the east side of the front. In Jan '05, most of se mass and the Cape was on the "warmer" side of the front, yet got 2-3' of snow. It was such an arctic airmass that temps were in the 20s to near 30 with a 60-70kt ne wind. That cold also allowed extremely strong winds to mix down at the surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Part of the reason why areas inland like Brockton get more wind then areas inland like where Ray is, is due to the coastal front. Coastal fronts as you know separate areas of more marine air (although this too can be quite cold) vs a more polar or arctic air. The colder air is more stable and creates an inversion where winds can't mix down like they could in a more warmer, marine environment. Of course in the interior, friction also reduces wind...but I had many storms with strong winds growing up in Brockton..simply because they were able to mix down being on the other side of the CF from time to time. Boston has the same issue. Many times the CF is south of them and instead of 40kt ne winds...it might be more 25-30kt north winds with a temp in the 20s...or even teens. Sometimes you can get very strong winds in the interior like we saw in the Boxing day storm, ...that storm had stronger winds on Orange as compared to Boston. However, that's kind of the exception. As you said...northeast exposed areas like Hull, Cape Ann..etc definitely get the brunt of the winds in many coastals. I think BOS would do better with a wind that's more like 050--090 or something like that. Coastal fronts aren't always the rain snow line either. Many areas this winter had heavy snows on the east side of the front. In Jan '05, most of se mass and the Cape was on the "warmer" side of the front, yet got 2-3' of snow. It was such an arctic airmass that temps were in the 20s to near 30 with a 60-70kt ne wind. That cold also allowed extremely strong winds to mix down at the surface. If you go back and look at when BOS had some of it's strongest winds from the northeast.it's probably with temps near 32F or a bit warmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Wind chills are actually an issue today. Mid May Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Chilly raw windy AMOUFWWGO As Most of Us Feel When We Go Outside Clouds breaking everywhere now..Sun should be out for most by 3:00 pm..Temps shooting into 65-70 range..You FTL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Clouds breaking everywhere now..Sun should be out for most by 3:00 pm..Temps shooting into 65-70 range..You FTL Just reporting what I see and observe, how the fook is that FML. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40/70 Benchmark Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Part of the reason why areas inland like Brockton get more wind then areas inland like where Ray is, is due to the coastal front. Coastal fronts as you know separate areas of more marine air (although this too can be quite cold) vs a more polar or arctic air. The colder air is more stable and creates an inversion where winds can't mix down like they could in a more warmer, marine environment. Of course in the interior, friction also reduces wind...but I had many storms with strong winds growing up in Brockton..simply because they were able to mix down being on the other side of the CF from time to time. Boston has the same issue. Many times the CF is south of them and instead of 40kt ne winds...it might be more 25-30kt north winds with a temp in the 20s...or even teens. Sometimes you can get very strong winds in the interior like we saw in the Boxing day storm, ...that storm had stronger winds on Orange as compared to Boston. However, that's kind of the exception. As you said...northeast exposed areas like Hull, Cape Ann..etc definitely get the brunt of the winds in many coastals. I think BOS would do better with a wind that's more like 050--090 or something like that. Coastal fronts aren't always the rain snow line either. Many areas this winter had heavy snows on the east side of the front. In Jan '05, most of se mass and the Cape was on the "warmer" side of the front, yet got 2-3' of snow. It was such an arctic airmass that temps were in the 20s to near 30 with a 60-70kt ne wind. That cold also allowed extremely strong winds to mix down at the surface. It's funny because I always dreaded seeing the wind kick up here during winter storms.....I'd expect the worst and sure enough, I'd go outside and discover dripping from all structures and the car windows fogged up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 It's funny because I always dreaded seeing the wind kick up here during winter storms.....I'd expect the worst and sure enough, I'd go outside and discover dripping from all structures and the car windows fogged up. That could be from you and the men in the backseat couldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Torchey Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Partly sunny 66 another classic out this way, hope everyone gets some sun later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 It's funny because I always dreaded seeing the wind kick up here during winter storms.....I'd expect the worst and sure enough, I'd go outside and discover dripping from all structures and the car windows fogged up. Usually if the CF gets to you...it's probably an indication of a strong push or marine air, so yeah I would dread it too. Likely means that BOS is rain or very close to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tropopause_Fold Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 It's funny because I always dreaded seeing the wind kick up here during winter storms.....I'd expect the worst and sure enough, I'd go outside and discover dripping from all structures and the car windows fogged up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tropopause_Fold Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Clouds breaking everywhere now..Sun should be out for most by 3:00 pm..Temps shooting into 65-70 range..You FTL Just reporting what I see and observe, how the fook is that FML. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tropopause_Fold Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 That could be from you and the men in the backseat couldn't it? LOL. or maybe just him in the backseat. he does have a CF fetish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2Otown_WX Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 GFS is a soaker for western and northern NE next week, but it did nudge east. Definitely not as much rain as the 06z and especially 00z runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Usually if the CF gets to you...it's probably an indication of a strong push or marine air, so yeah I would dread it too. Likely means that BOS is rain or very close to it. I have witnessed extreme scenarios where the CF separates 10F powder from 30-32F wet snow... It all depends on the antecedent cold and supply vector. If the arctic-polar hybrid air mass does not have enough time to modify post advection off the coast, the return flow can be intreresting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 GFS ensembles give Kevin his 75/65 fetish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I have witnessed extreme scenarios where the CF separates 10F powder from 30-32F wet snow... It all depends on the antecedent cold and supply vector. If the arctic-polar hybrid air mass does not have enough time to modify post advection off the coast, the return flow can be intreresting. Yeah for sure. Back in Dec of '08 it separated temps of around 18 in BOS to 32F in Hull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2Otown_WX Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 GFS ensembles give Kevin his 75/65 fetish. Lol, when? D15? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 is it 70F yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
free_man Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Absolutely awful weather in the city, people dressed in winter attire! Thank God it's close to 60 here with breaks of sun in the interior areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baroclinic Zone Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 is it 70F yet? Balmy 52F at TAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Lol, when? D15? Later next week. He's all about his higher dew points delivered on south winds, but a moist environment on the heels of southerly winds doesn't really produce this time of year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 is it 70F yet? Will Hey Scott, the Canadian operational changed tune a tad and marginally warm sectors us at D5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Will Hey Scott, the Canadian operational changed tune a tad and marginally warm sectors us at D5. Yeah that's an interesting run. Polar front sags south at d4, then retreats north on d5, followed by a west to east movement of the front as low pressure develops off the Mid Atlantic by d6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Torchey Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 is it 70F yet? almost......67 now hopefully we can get there by 4pm partly to mostly cloudy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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