ATL_Militarypolice Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 From James Spann: My long time associate and ABC 33/40 Chief Photographer Bill Castle just landed from flying the track of the Tuscaloosa/Birmingham tornado. He has seen it all over the years, and just told me this looked much worse that the April 8, 1998 EF-5 along the path. The tornado never lifted along the path he flew from Tuscaloosa to Fultondale. Site built homes totally off the foundation, massive timber damage in East Tuscaloosa County. No doubt in his mind this will be rather EF-4 or EF-5. And, remember, the track actually started in Mississippi and continued into Georgia after causing more severe damage in Northeast Alabama near Piedmont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluggerWx Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 http://www.myfoxatla...-20110427-am-sd Cartersville aerial shots show me (and my very amateur analysis) at least EF-4 damage. All you can see are completely clean slabs in some of the shots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojitodd Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 That's what I've been pondering. To me, one of the biggest "post analysis" areas needs to be focused on "Why?". I wish there was a way to see a census of sorts regarding the casualties. Follow me for a moment: It's one thing to have high casualty numbers when these things come through at night. But this was literally watched by millions as it traveled in *uncannily clear* mid-level daylight. I want to presume that most of the fatalities (particularly in GA and eastern AL) were due to structures giving way while people were in fact taking shelter, or other ways which would have been simply unavoidable. But how many casulaties in Tuscaloosa, for example, were people rushing to capture the best footage for Youtube (or like I used to be - an invincible college student believing nothing would happen to me)? I'll probably never know, but I'm curious. As we watched it barrel across AL, there was no legitimate reason to not have a plan if you lived in eastern AL, GA, TN, SC or NC. I understand that it's impossible for things to work perfectly in these situations, but with the exposure and warnings and people calling people, etc - why are those casualty numbers still so high? I guess my real question would be - how many of these injuries/fatalities could have been avoided had people sheltered themselves properly, etc. ? With everything we had available yesterday, information was unprecedented. It didn't sneak up on most of the area it covered. How can we better educate our people to understand the danger (even if it's not perceived as immediate) of these situations and the importance of executing a solid plan? I actually remember seeing just such a 'census' done after the 1998 Birmingham area tornado. They went through the different areas hit, interviewed survivors, those who knew the dead or of the circumstances, etc. It was very well done. I think it was by some medical association or something because they wanted to know why people were killed and detailed info about the trauma(head injuries, chest injuries, etc) What they found in that study is that most of the people who died were in structures that became 'airborne' or they were outside and became airborne. What they described that as being, was in a building where the floor that the people were on lifted into the air-either in a mobile home that was picked up, on the second story of a home that was swept away(not many two story homes though) or single story homes that were smaller and were elevated on foundations, often to make them even leveled because they were on hillsides, so they had raised weak foundation walls(often concrete block) that allowed the home to be actually picked up and then destroyed. This also happened in homes that were just slightly elevated on foundations but were weakly attached to it-so the house could be lifted up as well as suffering from all of the other things that can damage a home in a tornado. They also found most of the deaths involved severe head, neck, or chest injuries, as is to be expected. Also many of the people killed were not paying attention to the weather and did not have time to flee weak structures-people with more warning often left vulnerable buildings for something stronger. Just thought I would mention this since you mentioned a 'census' and I remembered this. *edit-so I did not remember some of it correctly, but here is the survey: http://www.colorado.edu/hazards/research/qr/qr116/qr116.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilj4425 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 231 dead according to CNN. Literally makes me sick to my stomach. Praying for all those affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WxKnurd Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 231 dead according to CNN. Literally makes me sick to my stomach. Praying for all those affected. Yea, my worst fears are being realized, this may come close to topping the '74 outbreak for number of FAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DixieBlizzard Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Remember, some of those that would have normally been warned were without power from the earlier storms. A lot of people were indeed watching but not those without power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookout Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 231 dead according to CNN. Literally makes me sick to my stomach. Praying for all those affected. TWC just said that the hospital in tuskalooska are asking people with "just" broken bones to stay home. That is how bad the situation is there. Just awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WxFreak11 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 This is really such a horrific tragedy. It's so hard to understand with all the warnings about how dangerous this system was going to be.. how in the world were there so many fatalities? I love weather and the granduer and power of mother nature, but this is just so heartbreaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookout Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 This is really such a horrific tragedy. It's so hard to understand with all the warnings about how dangerous this system was going to be.. how in the world were there so many fatalities? I love weather and the granduer and power of mother nature, but this is just so heartbreaking. Keep in mind that earlier storms had knocked out power to a lot of people (I think 200,000) in alabama so many were limited to finding out what was going on. Plus some of these tornadoes were so strong, there simply wasn't a lot of options for people even if they knew it was coming. Not much you can do when a f4 or f5 comes over you. Then there was the fact they were moving so fast, it was literally on top of people out of no where and they simply didn't have time to take cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeznado Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 This is really such a horrific tragedy. It's so hard to understand with all the warnings about how dangerous this system was going to be.. how in the world were there so many fatalities? I love weather and the granduer and power of mother nature, but this is just so heartbreaking. When a tornado hits a major metro- there are TONS of folks just "out and about" driving etc. They may not have the radio on, they could be stuck in traffic, taking a walk etc. Also with an EF-5 there might be someone that does the right thing, gets in a closet in a house with no basement and the tornado "cleans the slab"- you are not going to survive that no matter what. I think if "only" 300 are killed that is actually a low number for a violent tornado going through two major metro areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookout Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 25 bodies found in a parking lot in rainsville, al...just damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 When a tornado hits a major metro- there are TONS of folks just "out and about" driving etc. They may not have the radio on, they could be stuck in traffic, taking a walk etc. Also with an EF-5 there might be someone that does the right thing, gets in a closet in a house with no basement and the tornado "cleans the slab"- you are not going to survive that no matter what. I think if "only" 300 are killed that is actually a low number for a violent tornado going through two major metro areas. Yeah you also have to remember this his at 6pm in the evening, many people would be driving home from work or out and about at stores/restaurants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 It's just hard to believe this is so bad . This is going to be one of the deadliest outbreaks and the Tuscaloosa storm is likely to be one of the single deadliest tornadoes since 1960. Didn't think we'd see much worse than the OKC or Wichita Falls storms in modern times outside of a downtown metropolitan hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeznado Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I wonder how the NWS will handle the damage surveys- there are so many tornadoes some may never be properly rated due to the sheer number of tracks and a lack of personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojitodd Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 It's just hard to believe this is so bad . This is going to be one of the deadliest outbreaks and the Tuscaloosa storm is likely to be one of the single deadliest tornadoes since 1960. Didn't think we'd see much worse than the OKC or Wichita Falls storms in modern times outside of a downtown metropolitan hit. If the Tuscaloosa storm was the same one that hit the Birmingham area(very likely of course that it did not lift up) then it very well could be up there with Flint and Waco in 53. Udall in Kansas in 1955 was 80. I think with 36 dead in Tuscaloosa alone, this single tornado could be up there. Just so very bad and tragic. I knew it was bad when watching it live, but knowing now how many people it killed...it is just awful. My sympathies go out to everyone in the Southeast who is affected by this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoWeatherman Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 That Tuscaloosa super cell passed 10 miles north of me last night at 1015pm in Dahlonega GA. My barometric pressure at 930pm was 1005.3mb. At the supercells closest point to MBY my pressure dropped to 1002.3 at 1030pm but then shot back up to 1005.4 just 10 minutes later. Summary 930pm - 1005.3 mb 1030pm - 1002.3 mb 1050pm - 1005.9 mb Also there was a second cell right behind this one that was showing decent rotation and it had a nice drop with it too. 1050pm - 1005.9 mb 1130pm - 1002.9 mb 1210pm - 1005.8 mb Both of these strong rotating cells passed about 10 miles to my north. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojitodd Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Per CNN confirmed death toll now 247. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 If the Tuscaloosa storm was the same one that hit the Birmingham area(very likely of course that it did not lift up) then it very well could be up there with Flint and Waco in 53. Udall in Kansas in 1955 was 80. I think with 36 dead in Tuscaloosa alone, this single tornado could be up there. Just so very bad and tragic. I knew it was bad when watching it live, but knowing now how many people it killed...it is just awful. My sympathies go out to everyone in the Southeast who is affected by this. This is actually a good point, if this was one continuous tornado, you would be looking at one of the deadliest tornadoes in the last 55 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bevo Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Remember, some of those that would have normally been warned were without power from the earlier storms. A lot of people were indeed watching but not those without power. I understand that - I'm primarily talking about from between Tusc. and Birm. AL over into GA, which saw this coming hundreds of mile away. We watched it on tower cams from other states and knew it's track...I don't know. I guess I take for granted that not everyone is so accessable and able to hear the information...geesh, between cell phones, FB, Twitter (all accessablr by phone as well) neighbors, family, radio, "did-you-hear" etc., I'd think our casualty numbers would be less severe - but as has been pointed out, there's not much anyone can do when EF4's & EF5's are plowing in. I'm sure I probably assume too much in that regard. Edited: for clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATL_Militarypolice Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Fox news: President Obama to Travel to Alabama Tomorrow to View Storm Damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WxKnurd Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I understand that - I'm primarily talking east about AL and GA, which saw this coming hundreds of mile away. It's still hard for me to imagine that in this day and age, even without power, not hearing anything about what's happening in the counties to the west. I don't know...I'm sure I probably assume too much in that regard. They had storms roll through early in the morning that knocked out power around the Birmingham area that I know for sure. I want to say I heard reports of up close to 100,000 without power due to those early morning (5-6 am) storms. As for the Rome, GA storms, Lookout has stated many times that one of the major tv channels in that market area didn't even break Idol coverage to alert its viewers. Throw in darkness ensuing and all around it was a "perfect storm" of variables that occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaJen Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I have never posted before, as I am strictly an amateur weather nut and stick to reading all of the knowledgeable people here, which I very much appreciate. I live between Acworth and Cartersville, GA, so the damage starts just about 15 miles to my north. Me and my four kids (plus 2 dogs and 2 cats!) spent most of last night in our basement, and are counting our blessings this morning while praying for those impacted by these storms. I spent all day yesterday checking into these forums, plus the great coverage on the Weather Channel and other news stations. With hubby out of town and being solely responsible for 4 children, I was grateful to have advance notice to prepare a comfortable, safe spot to spend a good portion of our night. I do have something to contribute in response to those who ask, "why were there so many deaths when there were so many warnings?" I have many friends throughout this area of Georgia, and not a single one took this thing seriously. Some of them just had the "it can't happen to me so I won't think about it" attitude - one friend stated that she wouldn't go into her basement until she "heard the train" - I don't know how she doesn't know that it would be too late then. Another thing that concerns me, though, is that technology might actually contribute to the problem. Several friends mentioned that they were watching wsbtv, streaming, and with their "nifty radar" they could tell exactly where the storms were heading, and knew it wouldn't affect their neighborhoods even though the sirens were blaring - so they chose not to take shelter. This concerns me, because as I watched wsbtv, the storms would cycle and flare up with rotation very suddenly - it seems like if you were in the initial stages of re-development, there could be damage even if the "nifty radar" was telling you 2 minutes ago your neighborhood was safe. I don't know if that caused anyone any harm, but I do think it is an important point. The technology is great, but I think it can make people complacent. If you don't have a lot of knowledge the way people here do, and you depend on the modern radar and technology - you might take your safety for granted in a volatile situation, or be completely lost if the power goes out. Not sure what the answers are, but the loss of life is surely devastating. Lots to ponder. Thank you all again for sharing your knowledge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluggerWx Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I wonder how the NWS will handle the damage surveys- there are so many tornadoes some may never be properly rated due to the sheer number of tracks and a lack of personnel. Do you think we can support their efforts at all? Not from a 'rating' standpoint, but from a photograph, GPS coordinates and video (if possible) standpoint? I'd do the due diligence to drive down to some of the assigned tracks in the middle of nowhere and take photographs of everything and relay that info back to the NWS. It' can't hurt, IMO. Then, their efforts can be focussed on the most significant events first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluggerWx Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 About President Obama traveling over the next few days to survey the damage areas... I don't care about anyone's politics, and in times like these, people shouldn't either. What is important, though, is that the leader of a nation (if safe) travels to show support/concern for the affected areas. I hope AL welcomes President Obama's outreach, and I hope President Obama can accomplish three things in AL and the rest of the SE: -Provide some light of comfort/compassion for the affected areas -First-hand POV on the power of Tornadic weather so we see dramatic increase in funding to the NOAA and NWS -Bring national attention to something that's truely a tragedy - not because it happens in the NE or West Coast, but because it's the right thing to do If everyone in the SE could travel to the affected areas this weekend to assist, our friends in AR,TX,LA,MS,TN,AL,GA,SC,NC,VA would surely welcome us with open arms. As Americans, we do have a great sense of uniting BUT, it takes someone telling us we need to unite (MSM, President, Officials, Sports teams...etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 This death toll is as anomalous as Hurricane Katrina imo. Massive hurricane fatalities in the US hadn't happened in a long time until 2005. Similar thing with this. Warnings can only do so much and when you've got a violent tornado moving through areas with no underground shelters, it's a bad situation. I'm sure the power loss from the morning storms didn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bevo Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 ...I do have something to contribute in response to those who ask, "why were there so many deaths when there were so many warnings?" I have many friends throughout this area of Georgia, and not a single one took this thing seriously. Some of them just had the "it can't happen to me so I won't think about it" attitude - one friend stated that she wouldn't go into her basement until she "heard the train" - I don't know how she doesn't know that it would be too late then. Another thing that concerns me, though, is that technology might actually contribute to the problem. Several friends mentioned that they were watching wsbtv, streaming, and with their "nifty radar" they could tell exactly where the storms were heading, and knew it wouldn't affect their neighborhoods even though the sirens were blaring - so they chose not to take shelter. This concerns me, because as I watched wsbtv, the storms would cycle and flare up with rotation very suddenly - it seems like if you were in the initial stages of re-development, there could be damage even if the "nifty radar" was telling you 2 minutes ago your neighborhood was safe. I don't know if that caused anyone any harm, but I do think it is an important point. The technology is great, but I think it can make people complacent. If you don't have a lot of knowledge the way people here do, and you depend on the modern radar and technology - you might take your safety for granted in a volatile situation, or be completely lost if the power goes out. Not sure what the answers are, but the loss of life is surely devastating. Lots to ponder. Thank you all again for sharing your knowledge! I think that's still my main concern...No matter the EF scale number, I know that this was prevalent attitude, and always is during severe situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weunice Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I think that's still my main concern...No matter the EF scale number, I know that this was prevalent attitude, and always is during severe situations. All you have had to do is read Twitter over these last several days. Just type tornado in and watch the apathy. A lot of those who were apathetic yesterday aren't so much so this morning. For some people it takes getting burned to realize that fire is hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburns Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 When a tornado hits a major metro- there are TONS of folks just "out and about" driving etc. They may not have the radio on, they could be stuck in traffic, taking a walk etc. Also with an EF-5 there might be someone that does the right thing, gets in a closet in a house with no basement and the tornado "cleans the slab"- you are not going to survive that no matter what. I think if "only" 300 are killed that is actually a low number for a violent tornado going through two major metro areas. Bingo. Excellent post. I don't know why everyone seems surprised at the rising death toll. When you are told to shelter in place, because it gives you the best chance to survive, and the "place" is completely swept away, you die. No ones fault, its just the way it is. For every person that died thousands sheltered in place and were uninjured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeznado Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Reed Timer video: Huntsville/Cullman: http://www.youtube.com/user/chazrobertsonii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose4 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 All you have had to do is read Twitter over these last several days. Just type tornado in and watch the apathy. A lot of those who were apathetic yesterday aren't so much so this morning. For some people it takes getting burned to realize that fire is hot. I can't speak for anybody else, but after having the Sanford/Raleigh EF3 on 4/16 miss me by about 15 miles, and then seeing what it and the other NC tornadoes did? I will be taking severe thunderstorm and tornado warnings a lot more seriously than I did before. I used to blow off tornado warnings (what few I've ever been in the path of) because they always seemed to be based off radar data that never actually turned into a tornado on the ground. After this month, I don't think I'll be making that mistake again, and I'll make sure my wife and kid don't either. Does it seem like these two outbreaks (4/16 and 4/26-27) have had a much higher proportion than normal of radar-indicated signatures that actually touched down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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