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The Lambert Field/ STL metro Tornado


janetjanet998

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thought it would be a good idea to have it's own thread, for those that have radar shots please post them

per live air shots

there appears to be a rather long path..wide in places F1-F2 range range until just west of the airport

I am seeing the worst damage of mid to high end EF3 a mile or so just west southwest of the airport..

some large houses only a fews walls remain, upper stories gone,,one ot two only had mostly a pile of rubble left

tornado then moved into a commercial area...with heavy damage to several buildings

Tornado then hit the airport head on

large parts of the terminal roof is gone half the windows blown out, planes got moved with people inside..a large piece of sheet metal is embbeded into the tail section of one of the planes..airport will be closed for at least 2 days

Tornado then continued east likely F1-F2 damage into Fergenson

Tornado then likley crosed the river into granite city...have not seen air shots yet from there

appears hundreds of homes affected

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I know from what I saw to pick that bus up and put it where it did, I'd have to imagine that it took at least 135-160 mph to do that which we are talking at least a low ef-3.

what are you assuming happened to the bus? it looks like it only had to be picked up a couple feet to get onto that perch....impressive but I don't know if that means EF3...especially since the stuff around it doesn't look to be damaged by EF3 winds.

those buses are pretty light compared to their surface area.

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what are you assuming happened to the bus? it looks like it only had to be picked up a couple feet to get onto that perch....impressive but I don't know if that means EF3...especially since the stuff around it doesn't look to be damaged by EF3 winds.

those buses are pretty light compared to their surface area.

Yeah good point, I relooked at the picture, at first I thought it was picked up from ground and put up there, but I am wrong it was up there and picked up and pushed. Probably something closer to say 90-110mph range, because even though they are light, they are much heavier than a car. However some of the other pictures on St. Louis' web page would certainly be in the EF-3 range.

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It's crazy to me that even though the NWS had the warning out well in advance, the airport did not act in a timely manner to get people to safety. When a plane is being moved by the wind it is too late to start moving people.

I was thinking if there would be any changes due to this...

but I don't think you can take people off the planes every time there is a run of the mill type tornado warning for the airport general area...

perhaps only when there is a confirmed one heading for the airport??? which there was in this case

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I knew these storms were strong and had possible Tornadic signatures. I was IN THE COCKPIT at gate A4 when this happened. We felt the gusts and saw the rapid pressure drop on the altimeter. Plane moved around a bit, but no more than other times ive been in gusty winds on the ground. Our concourse is about 400 feet away from concourse C which sustained significant damage. What is bothering me is the fact that neither I nor the airline agents knew there was a Tornado warning for the area. Im pretty sure this storm was warned and im going to investigate why as Captain I did not know and how we might possibly have had better information in this event AND better warning in the future.

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I knew these storms were strong and had possible Tornadic signatures. I was IN THE COCKPIT at gate A4 when this happened. We felt the gusts and saw the rapid pressure drop on the altimeter. Plane moved around a bit, but no more than other times ive been in gusty winds on the ground. Our concourse is about 400 feet away from concourse C which sustained significant damage. What is bothering me is the fact that neither I nor the airline agents knew there was a Tornado warning for the area. Im pretty sure this storm was warned and im going to investigate why as Captain I did not know and how we might possibly have had better information in this event AND better warning in the future.

When my now deceased Dad worked flight dispatch for American, they had a staff of mets, and my Dad always made it clear he thought the AA mets were superior. My Dad worked with the famous Texas TV met Harold Taft at DAL.

"Talk Yankee for us, Charlie", Taft would say that to my Dad.

I suppose with leaner budgets the airlines don't have as many mets on staff anymore and are more reliant on NWS.

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PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ST LOUIS MO

1145 AM CDT SAT APR 23 2011

...INITIAL DAMAGE SURVEY INDICATES AT LEAST EF3 DAMAGE IN NORTH ST

LOUIS COUNTY...

A NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DAMAGE SURVEY TEAM HAS FOUND AT LEAST EF3

DAMAGE IN THE BRIDGETON AREA IN NORTH ST LOUIS COUNTY.

EF3 DAMAGE INDICATES WINDS OF OVER 135 MPH.

PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS JUST ONE REPORT FROM ONE OF THE 4 TEAMS

THAT ARE SURVEYING THE DAMAGE...SO THIS RATING MAY CHANGE.

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I knew these storms were strong and had possible Tornadic signatures. I was IN THE COCKPIT at gate A4 when this happened. We felt the gusts and saw the rapid pressure drop on the altimeter. Plane moved around a bit, but no more than other times ive been in gusty winds on the ground. Our concourse is about 400 feet away from concourse C which sustained significant damage. What is bothering me is the fact that neither I nor the airline agents knew there was a Tornado warning for the area. Im pretty sure this storm was warned and im going to investigate why as Captain I did not know and how we might possibly have had better information in this event AND better warning in the future.

Air traffic controller asleep again? :-)

On a serious note, wondering why that critical info was not relayed to you. Is it past practice to have all warnings affecting the aircraft/airport relayed to you over radio?

If so, someone dropped the ball. If not, Thad just downright neglect.

Glad to see your doing well after that ordeal

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It's crazy to me that even though the NWS had the warning out well in advance, the airport did not act in a timely manner to get people to safety. When a plane is being moved by the wind it is too late to start moving people.

Yes and if you count to 50 after that the danger has passed. You can stop the evacuation. People may gfet trampled, or worse yet a nailclipper may get passed airport security.

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831

NOUS43 KLSX 232008

PNSLSX

ILZ058>060-064-065-069-070-074-079-095>102-MOZ018-019-026-027-

034>036-041-042-047>052-059>065-072>075-084-085-099-240000-

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ST LOUIS MO

305 PM CDT SAT APR 23 2011

..SURVEY TEAM RATE DAMAGE IN BRIDGETON AS EF4

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DAMAGE SURVEY TEAM IN NORTH ST LOUIS

COUNTY HAS FOUND EF4 DAMAGE IN THE BRIDGETON AREA...NEAR OLD ST

CHARLES ROCK ROAD AND HARMON ESTATES.

EF4 DAMAGE INDICATES WINDS OF 166 TO 200 MPH.

PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS STILL A PRELIMINARY REPORT...SO INFORMATION

MAY CHANGE AND BE UPDATED AS SURVEY TEAMS CONTINUE THEIR WORK.

SURVEY TEAMS HAVE NOT YET REACH LAMBERT FIELD...SO NO DAMAGE RATING

IS AVAILABLE FOR THE AIRPORT AT THIS TIME.

TRUETT

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Hi everyone, please allow me to introduce myself. This my first posting. My name is Mike Smith. I am CEO of WeatherData Services, Inc. of Wichita, which is part of AccuWeather. I'm a board certified consulting meteorologist and a Fellow of the American Meteorological Society. I have written a book, Warnings: The True Story of How Science Tamed the Weather which (written like a mystery novel) tells how weather science has helped eliminate microburst crashes, cut the tornado death rate from tornadoes by 95%, and saved tens of thousands in hurricanes.

Why am I telling you this?

The book tells of a major gap in the weather warning system: The F.A.A.'s refusal to allow NWS tornado warnings to be furnished to control towers and ATC personnel. There was a near-miss at KDAB on Christmas Day 2006 when a Delta Express flight nearly landed in a tornado. The plane went around and when it landed, the pilots asked, "what happened?!" when they saw all of the damage. The tornado was very well-warned. When DAB put a weather radio in the tower, the FAA made them take it out. This entire story is told in the book. Last night was the real thing and people could have been killed.

For reasons I have never understood, the FAA seems to see a difference between "weather warnings" and "aviation weather warnings." Tornado warnings are not part of the latter data stream, thus they are not provided. It would be very easy to solve this problem but the FAA doesn't see it as a priority.

I have a blog and I have talked about this: http://meteorologicalmusings.blogspot.com/

I also welcome questions via email ([email protected]).

Thank you for allowing me to comment. Happy Easter, everyone!

Mike

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Hi everyone, please allow me to introduce myself. This my first posting. My name is Mike Smith. I am CEO of WeatherData Services, Inc. of Wichita, which is part of AccuWeather. I'm a board certified consulting meteorologist and a Fellow of the American Meteorological Society. I have written a book, Warnings: The True Story of How Science Tamed the Weather which (written like a mystery novel) tells how weather science has helped eliminate microburst crashes, cut the tornado death rate from tornadoes by 95%, and saved tens of thousands in hurricanes.

Why am I telling you this?

The book tells of a major gap in the weather warning system: The F.A.A.'s refusal to allow NWS tornado warnings to be furnished to control towers and ATC personnel. There was a near-miss at KDAB on Christmas Day 2006 when a Delta Express flight nearly landed in a tornado. The plane went around and when it landed, the pilots asked, "what happened?!" when they saw all of the damage. The tornado was very well-warned. When DAB put a weather radio in the tower, the FAA made them take it out. This entire story is told in the book. Last night was the real thing and people could have been killed.

For reasons I have never understood, the FAA seems to see a difference between "weather warnings" and "aviation weather warnings." Tornado warnings are not part of the latter data stream, thus they are not provided. It would be very easy to solve this problem but the FAA doesn't see it as a priority.

I have a blog and I have talked about this: http://meteorologica...s.blogspot.com/

I also welcome questions via email ([email protected]).

Thank you for allowing me to comment. Happy Easter, everyone!

Mike

This is just insane if this is true. This puts the public in harm's way in a huge way. I want to know why the FAA doesn't consider weather warnings could adversely affect aviation? This is just completely assinine.

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831

NOUS43 KLSX 232008

PNSLSX

ILZ058>060-064-065-069-070-074-079-095>102-MOZ018-019-026-027-

034>036-041-042-047>052-059>065-072>075-084-085-099-240000-

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ST LOUIS MO

305 PM CDT SAT APR 23 2011

..SURVEY TEAM RATE DAMAGE IN BRIDGETON AS EF4

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DAMAGE SURVEY TEAM IN NORTH ST LOUIS

COUNTY HAS FOUND EF4 DAMAGE IN THE BRIDGETON AREA...NEAR OLD ST

CHARLES ROCK ROAD AND HARMON ESTATES.

EF4 DAMAGE INDICATES WINDS OF 166 TO 200 MPH.

PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS STILL A PRELIMINARY REPORT...SO INFORMATION

MAY CHANGE AND BE UPDATED AS SURVEY TEAMS CONTINUE THEIR WORK.

SURVEY TEAMS HAVE NOT YET REACH LAMBERT FIELD...SO NO DAMAGE RATING

IS AVAILABLE FOR THE AIRPORT AT THIS TIME.

TRUETT

Ron P. I trust him. He knows how to do surveys.

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I knew these storms were strong and had possible Tornadic signatures. I was IN THE COCKPIT at gate A4 when this happened. We felt the gusts and saw the rapid pressure drop on the altimeter. Plane moved around a bit, but no more than other times ive been in gusty winds on the ground. Our concourse is about 400 feet away from concourse C which sustained significant damage. What is bothering me is the fact that neither I nor the airline agents knew there was a Tornado warning for the area. Im pretty sure this storm was warned and im going to investigate why as Captain I did not know and how we might possibly have had better information in this event AND better warning in the future.

Can we do the 'Amwex' awards each year for fun (like Jan '12 for 2011 awards)?

If so, I'm nominating this for post of the year (among many stong competitors to this point).

Thanks, DeltaPilot for that compelling recap.

I'll continue the discussion down the road for the Amwex Awards if people are interested (thought it was a catchy name, given our URL).

Compelling

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

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PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ST LOUIS MO

615 PM CDT SAT APR 23 2011

...SURVEY TEAM RATE DAMAGE AT LAMBERT ST. LOUIS INTL. AIRPORT AS EF2...

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DAMAGE SURVEY TEAM AT LAMBERT ST. LOUIS

INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT HAS FOUND EF2 DAMAGE.

NEARLY 80 PERCENT OF THE WINDOWS IN THE EASTERNMOST PART OF THE

TERMINAL WERE BLOWN OUT...AND THE ROOF WAS TORN OFF OF TERMINAL C.

EF2 DAMAGE INDICATES WINDS OF 111 TO 135 MPH.

PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS STILL A PRELIMINARY REPORT...SO INFORMATION

MAY CHANGE AND BE UPDATED AS SURVEY TEAMS CONTINUE THEIR WORK.

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