HurricaneJosh Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'm amazed at the hostility toward a suggestion of simple building standards. In CA it is simply an expectation-- and guess what? When our metroplex of 8 million had a direct hit by a quake that produced whopping Level IX shaking right in the city, only 75 people died-- out of 8 million. Strict CA building codes saved thousands of lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacoman25 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 It is rare but seemingly less rare these days and likely less rare going forward as population density increases. It doesn't really matter--it's terrible whether it's 200 or 1000. Was mostly just pointing out these abnormally high casualty incidents often follow a similar pattern of speculation. Right. You're always going to have the rogue wackos speculating about massively inflated numbers. Just like people who think every storm/event is going to be historic. Occasionally they're right, but most of the time they don't have a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 My liberty to make my own decisions is worth more than my life, thank you. Thread's awesome right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacoman25 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 My liberty to make my own decisions is worth more than my life, thank you. There are plenty of laws out there that take away the individual's right to "make their own decision" - for their own protection and others. Most of them you probably have no problem with. Why is this such a big deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 But really, this isn't difficult folks, put some state money toward community shelters in highly populated areas, promote the benefits of storms shelters (safety, piece of mind, increased home valuation, etc.), and inform the public that they need to have a plan. It certainly worked here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojitodd Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'm amazed at the hostility toward a suggestion of simple building standards. In CA it is simply an expectation-- and guess what? When our metroplex of 8 million had a direct hit by a quake that produced whopping Level IX shaking right in the city, only 75 people died-- out of 8 million. Strict CA building codes saved thousands of lives. Well to be fair, if people knew that a major tornado was virtually guaranteed to hit their neighborhood at some point, then I think they would have a different opinion about it. I really do not think that was a fair comparison-a very likely event (a moderate to major earthquake threat that is almost a guarantee(not if just when) vs. a very unlikely event to happen at all(any given particular neighborhood in Alabama or Ohio or Missouri being hit by a violent tornado-not likely to happen at all). Maybe a better analogy with earthquakes would be flooding and flood measures or flood insurance? Apples to apples and oranges to oranges, Josh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k*** Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 smh...this safety discussion should have been spun off long ago...can't believe this took over the thread and we had to move discussion of the actual tornadoes to a new one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srain Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'm amazed at the hostility toward a suggestion of simple building standards. In CA it is simply an expectation-- and guess what? When our metroplex of 8 million had a direct hit by a quake that produced whopping Level IX shaking right in the city, only 75 people died-- out of 8 million. Strict CA building codes saved thousands of lives. I'm seriously laughing. Miami/Dade building codes that were put in place after Andrew certainly proved worthy for me and my old home in the Keys (adopted Miami/Dade codes in Monroe County) that was built 1999. I had $42.00 damage from Wilma while neighbors in 'older homes' lived in FEMA trailors for month afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyes2theskies Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Death toll up to 298 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Go to Bing Maps' 'Bird's Eye View' to see excellent 'before' views of what was damaged/destroyed. Some reference points: Video starts facing east at 35th and Exchange Ave (road next to RR tracks) :37 - Road crossing the freeway is 31st st 1:00 - Roseland Courts public housing, looks to be about 40% destroyed. 2:30 - 15th St and 5th Ave 2:50 - McFarland Blvd just south of 13th St, the Hobby Lobby strip center where a lot of the evening video was shot of people walking up and down McFarland past the rubble. Offscreen to the right of this video but easily seen in Bird's Eye View is the mall parking lot where that kid got the dramatic tornado vid: SE corner of McFarland and 15th, he starts facing west across McFarland, ends facing north across 15th, then heading east. 3:30 - Slabs were industrial buildings between the RR tracks south of University and Kicker. 3:50 - Church at University and 22nd. 4:33 - 4th St between 30th and 31st Ave. 5:05 - Trailer park west of Crescent Ln at 1st. 5:55 - Elm Dr at 44th Ct. wow..this got deeper(more north) into the city then I thought. Thanks for taking the time to do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LithiaWx Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 My liberty to make my own decisions is worth more than my life, thank you. They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Death toll up to 298 do you have the break down between regions? i thought the earlier 263 didn't really add up becuase there were "only" 35-45 in the Tucs/BHM tornado(where were all the others)..that was until that report of 147 victims in the Northern AL Tornado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macintosh Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'm amazed at the hostility toward a suggestion of simple building standards. In CA it is simply an expectation-- and guess what? When our metroplex of 8 million had a direct hit by a quake that produced whopping Level IX shaking right in the city, only 75 people died-- out of 8 million. Strict CA building codes saved thousands of lives. We dare defend our liberty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paweatherguy1 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 because its my freaking house that's why. I own it and the ground..I don't need you or the government telling me if a need a freaking safe room in my own house becuase of some freak event. In you are talking about an apartment that you own and rent to other people..then perhaps ..earthqaukes are common in CA and affect a large area... getting hit by an EF4+ tornado is very very low This kind of stuff really irritates me... this is all I am going to say in this thread about this matter....unless we have a spin off thread for it It's people like you, who have ZERO common sense, and state that liberty is more important than safety, that make these sorts of laws necessary. Why don't we go ahead and give you the option to not have a seat belt in your car, use lead gas again, liven in a house with NO building codes because you don't want someone to tell you how to live and let you carry a firearm with no safetyThen, when you get in a car wreck and fly through your window, get lead poisoning, your house collapses on you, or your kid kills himself with your gun, you can say your liberty killed you, and that you died for it. As for me, I would just call you stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paweatherguy1 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 We dare defend our liberty. How the heck would having something be recquire in your house that would keep you safe infringe upon your liberty? I'm all for liberty, but I'm not all for allowing people to be stupid. Do you have kids? Would you put your liberty to not have a safe room or underground shelter above their safety? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I think we need to break this safety discussion off somewhere, so it can stop crowding this thread up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paweatherguy1 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I think we need to break this safety discussion off somewhere, so it can stop crowding this thread up. That's fine with me... And I'm sorry, but I just had to interject there...I had just been observing but had to respond to blind stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacoman25 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 It's people like you, who have ZERO common sense, and state that liberty is more important than safety, that make these sorts of laws necessary. Why don't we go ahead and give you the option to not have a seat belt in your car, use lead gas again, liven in a house with NO building codes because you don't want someone to tell you how to live and let you carry a firearm with no safetyThen, when you get in a car wreck and fly through your window, get lead poisoning, your house collapses on you, or your kid kills himself with your gun, you can say your liberty killed you, and that you died for it. As for me, I would just call you stupid. That's a bit harsh...but you illustrated the point I was hinting at pretty well. If one feels that building codes "take away their liberty", it might make more sense for them to move to a third world country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macintosh Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 How the heck would having something be recquire in your house that would keep you safe infringe upon your liberty? I'm all for liberty, but I'm not all for allowing people to be stupid. Do you have kids? Would you put your liberty to not have a safe room or underground shelter above their safety? Then you're not for liberty. Not as many of us define liberty. The fallicy is to think that one can legislate away stupidity. It can't be done, and in the process of trying we create a horrific system in which we lose our dignity, self-determination, and sense of purpose. I have a safe room, and of my own accord I keep up with the weather and the dangers of the world. This discussion really has gotten off topic, but as of yet I haven't seen any mods complaining. Nevertheless I think we should probably move this to another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derecho! Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'm amazed at the hostility toward a suggestion of simple building standards. In CA it is simply an expectation-- and guess what? When our metroplex of 8 million had a direct hit by a quake that produced whopping Level IX shaking right in the city, only 75 people died-- out of 8 million. Strict CA building codes saved thousands of lives. Long-term, the combined deaths and dollar damage done by earthquakes in this country are going to make the totals from tornadoes look like a joke (and to a lesser degree, I believe the same is true of hurricanes.) We've just been oddly lucky in the last 200 years. Most of the energy of Northridge was directed into unpopulated mountains. Not saying you're making this argument, but on board after board I've seen people who literally believe that it's impossible for an earthquake to kill more than 100 people unless it's in some smelly Third-World country (how they managed to mentally delete the Kobe quake, I don't know.) We'll see a quake with a death toll in the thousands in this country within 20 years, I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srain Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyOn Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Oh God.. The "Don't Tread On Me" crowd is out..Hide the children and lock the doors!!! Is everything today about Politics? We have 200+ dead and hundreds more injured and some of us are bitching about Liberty.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macintosh Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Created new thread for the building code vs. liberty issue. Please join if interested. I will have fun tearing the subject up in Off Topic. http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/17861-building-codes-vs-liberty-a-heated-debate/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k*** Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 go **** yourself loser it 's my house... not yours it has no affect on you what so ever....if the founding fathers were forced by people like you to build a freaking safe shelter in their own house becuase of some freak tornado you would be laughed at and better yet shot. again **** you,,i;m out of here chillax jj...you're way more level headed than this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Long-term, the combined deaths and dollar damage done by earthquakes in this country are going to make the totals from tornadoes look like a joke (and to a lesser degree, I believe the same is true of hurricanes.) We've just been oddly lucky in the last 200 years. Most of the energy of Northridge was directed into unpopulated mountains. Not saying you're making this argument, but on board after board I've seen people who literally believe that it's impossible for an earthquake to kill more than 100 people unless it's in some smelly Third-World country (how they managed to mentally delete the Kobe quake, I don't know.) We'll see a quake with a death toll in the thousands in this country within 20 years, I suspect. Re: Northridge, a lot of energy was sent N, but some of the pockets of max (Level IX) shaking occurred in Sherman Oaks and Santa Monica-- two densely-populated parts of the metroplex-- and most of the city had very heavy (Level XII-XIII) shaking. Sorry to go OT... Back on topic... Did I hear correctly that the Tuscaloosa tornado started in MS, crossed AL, and moved into GA without lifting? If so, wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 chillax jj...you're way more level headed than this I;m just stiring the pot and was kidding. I could care less if some tard on a forum calls me stupid...but it's hard to tell intent on a message board I will delete that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Back on topic... Did I hear correctly that the Tuscaloosa tornado started in MS, crossed AL, and moved into GA without lifting? If so, wow. several local on air mets were saying that indeed going by just the storm reports, but it is clear that the storm cycled and a new tornado MAY have formed just east of BHM ..but of course it's possible it could of merged with the old one.... The tornado was warpped in rain and the couplet weakned for a few scans before going nuts again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 several local on air mets were syaing that indded but it is clear that the storm cycled and a new tornado MAY have formed just east of BHM OK, gotcha. I was having a hard time believing that was one continuous surface circulation-- but, hey, it's been an extraordinary event. Why would I be surprised by anything at this point? I can't wait to read the survey report on that one (or those ones)-- and to see some detailed damage maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 several local on air mets were saying that indeed going by just the storm reports, but it is clear that the storm cycled and a new tornado MAY have formed just east of BHM ..but of course it's possible it could of merged with the old one.... The tornado was warpped in rain and the couplet weakned for a few scans before going nuts again I would tend to agree that it lifted east of Birmingham and put down a new one before hitting Rome, GA. However, the damage assessment could ultimately prove me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I would tend to agree that it lifted east of Birmingham and put down a new one before hitting Rome, GA. However, the damage assessment could ultimately prove me wrong. Yeah if you go purely by the radar, it looked to weaken for about 20-30 miles before picking back up NE of Birmingham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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