SharonA Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'd rather be talking about the wx behind the outbreak. Same here. I wish we had a separate thread for the "what's the best way to stay alive" circling and another for the wx and science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I believe the trailer park affected in the Andover, KS tornado had a community shelter, underground, I assume. Every trailer park should have one, since more common strength tornadoes can do so much damage to those. There's at least one mobile home park in this area that has a shelter. People do use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluggerWx Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Thankgod such parameters dont come together that often...Just unreal damage my thoughts and prayers are with these folks.More images here Image 20 is too much for words. I would hope before publishing this picture that the photographer identified if the victim in the red car had already been removed from the red car. If not, this is not something the photographer should NOT post online. Clearly there was a life-taking or life threatening serious injury within this car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jims Videos Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I am covering what was probably an EF-0 tornado in Luzerne County, PA today for my news. It's so shocking to see the southern death toll so high. When I got home from work yesterday, I was watching TWC and ABC 33/40 coverage simultaneously. It was the best wall-to-wall severe coverage I have ever seen. But I got a sick feeling when the debris started raining down in Birmingham. It was a sick to my stomach feeling, and those fears are realized. We had quite a bit of damage in our coverage area in NEPA and Central PA...but it really makes you take one step back when you're covering a couple hundred trees snapped off and then look at the areal shots from Tuscaloosa and see how many innocent people--who woke up that morning ready to live their life, had theirs taken away from them so suddenly, so horrifically, and so tragically.... Anyone negatively commenting on the media's coverage during the storms yesterday needs to just take a step back and understand hundreds/thousands of lives may have been saved from advanced warning the on-air mets were providing--from TWC to ABC 33/40 to all the affiliates in the south that were running wall-to-wall coverage. Negatively charged comments toward the media should be aimed and centered to the stations that aired regular programming during the time of the southern outbreak... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottL Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 (15 min ago as of 3:54pm) -- hoping this doesn't confirm... @myfoxal FOX6 WBRC-TV Our sister station to the north, WAFF, reports 147 people are dead between Franklin County and Hackleburg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojitodd Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I can give one example of evacuation that did work: the Golden Spur mobile home park hit by the Andover tornado in 1991. I believe about 350 to 500(can't remember exactly) or so people were in the park at the time the tornado was approaching. One fourth fled the park in automobiles. One half fled to the tornado shelter that was at the park. The other fourth did not flee and were caught in the park in their trailers. All of the deaths at the park were those in that last fourth, who were still in the trailers. -the majority who fled to the shelter survived-nobody was killed or seriously injured there. -the people who fled in automobiles could easily see the tornado approaching for several minutes beforehand, and given the grid pattern and wide visibility, were able to drive away from the tornado path, and they all made it as well. This may be a situation that would fit jomo's theory(even though it is a mobile home park). Staying in place in this case was a very bad idea. And fleeing in automobiles was a decent option-there was good visibility, enough time, good regular grid road network, on the edge of development in the Wichita area, so no congestion, traffic jams, etc. But these situations would be the exception imo. Certainly not the case in a wooded, hilly, metro area with an irregular street system, limited visibility, very fast moving storms, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mempho Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Yeah, I do understand that, but you may be giving people the false assumption that they will be safe if they do as they are told, even in the face of a tornado that has a low survivability rate. If people believe that they will survive if they go to an interior room, even though the tornado isn't going to leave anything on the foundation, you've just given someone who may have lived if they would have ran away the wrong advice. If they think 'well he said I'm going to be safe' so I guess I won't try to run from the storm. I'm probably not wording it right, or something though, sorry. I'm agreeing with this part. I think the impression a lot of people were given was just wrong. I watched Spann and he did an excellent job and I don't know what else could've been done but I think a lot of the average people were under the impression that they were "supposed to survive" if they only listened and did what they were told. Honestly, everyone on these forums knew better than that before this thing ever left Tuscaloosa. Many people on here correctly said that it would be a miracle if it weakened or dissapated before hitting the Birmingham region. We had all of the indicators....radar signature, live video footage, storm structure, unthinkable g2g velocities....I mean, we all were sitting here and we all knew that this was most likely going to be a major problem for some portion of the Birmingham metro. We watched it strengthen and watched its breadth increased as it approached and all of us knew in our guts that the hall closet was no place to be for this one. I happen to think that people deserve to know what kind of risk they are facing and I think most of them ignored their gut instincts by trying to do the "smart thing" and listened to the experts. I don't feel as if anyone was dishonest or did a bad job or anything but I think the impression a lot of people had was just not in sync with the harrowing reality of the situation at hand. Personally, I think they deserved to know if for no other reason than to say their last goodbyes or make their peace with God. You know, I've heard it around the office today....people look at these pictures today and ask "what is the point of trying to stay in your closet if you're going to be killed no matter what?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 (15 min ago as of 3:54pm) -- hoping this doesn't confirm... @myfoxal FOX6 WBRC-TV Our sister station to the north, WAFF, reports 147 people are dead between Franklin County and Hackleburg. wow thats in the north part of the state too..not the Tucs/BHM monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewxmann Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Since you have as a good of a chance dying a vehicle as in a mobile home in a tornado, I'd choose the former option if you lived in a mobile home. That would be the lone exception however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Storm Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Will throw another one up at a later date... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Lizard Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Image 20 is too much for words. I would hope before publishing this picture that the photographer identified if the victim in the red car had already been removed from the red car. If not, this is not something the photographer should NOT post online. Clearly there was a life-taking or life threatening serious injury within this car. A saferoom clearly did its job, the home is destroyed, but the family is safe. Every new build in Tornado Alley and Dixie Alley should be mandated as part of the permit with a safe room or underground shelter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'm agreeing with this part. I think the impression a lot of people were given was just wrong. I watched Spann and he did an excellent job and I don't know what else could've been done but I think a lot of the average people were under the impression that they were "supposed to survive" if they only listened and did what they were told. Honestly, everyone on these forums knew better than that before this thing ever left Tuscaloosa. Many people on here correctly said that it would be a miracle if it weakened or dissapated before hitting the Birmingham region. We had all of the indicators....radar signature, live video footage, storm structure, unthinkable g2g velocities....I mean, we all were sitting here and we all knew that this was most likely going to be a major problem for some portion of the Birmingham metro. We watched it strengthen and watched its breadth increased as it approached and all of us knew in our guts that the hall closet was no place to be for this one. I happen to think that people deserve to know what kind of risk they are facing and I think most of them ignored their gut instincts by trying to do the "smart thing" and listened to the experts. I don't feel as if anyone was dishonest or did a bad job or anything but I think the impression a lot of people had was just not in sync with the harrowing reality of the situation at hand. Personally, I think they deserved to know if for no other reason than to say their last goodbyes or make their peace with God. You know, I've heard it around the office today....people look at these pictures today and ask "what is the point of trying to stay in your closet if you're going to be killed no matter what?" This is basically what I was trying to say. I wasn't actually saying the on-air personalities did a bad job, they did a tremendous job. I'm saying the impression that they gave was that if people 'hunkered down' they would survive. Spann and whoever that CBS guy was both knew it was a violent tornado long before it hit the Birmingham area. Maybe there needs to be more education to the public about what kind of damage a violent tornado can do and that simply getting in a hall closet will probably not protect you during a violent tornado so you should look for underground shelter or get out of its way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Image 20 is too much for words. I would hope before publishing this picture that the photographer identified if the victim in the red car had already been removed from the red car. If not, this is not something the photographer should NOT post online. huh? that's what photographers do. photographers have won awards for taking pictures of people being killed in front of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 This made me truly laugh out loud. As you have already stated, deaths were inevitable given the incredibly bad combination of factors yesterday for death. The more entertaining thing post-disaster is watching people become infatuated with the death toll and then say things like "isn't it horrible." Yeah okay... I'd rather be talking about the wx behind the outbreak. Agreed. I was noticing there's more talk about the death toll than the actual tornadic events themselves, which were quite spectacular and unique. I'd like to know more about the dimensions and severities of some of these bigger storms-- but I guess we're still waiting for most of the survey teams to complete their work. I also agree that deaths were inevitable. It is no one's fault. The earth is a constant stream of violent, natural processes-- tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc.-- and sometimes we're just in the way of it. There is no one to blame. It is what it is. The NWS and the media were on top of this. Without them, the death toll probably would have been over 1,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 . Every new build in Tornado Alley and Dixie Alley should be mandated as part of the permit with a safe room or underground shelter. no thanks...if i don't want to build a safe room or shelter in my house then i shouldn't have too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derecho! Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 . Without them, the death toll probably would have been over 1,000. I'm not absolutely confident that wasn't exceeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'm not absolutely confident that wasn't exceeded. Hard to even fathom that, but it was hard to fathom 260 yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyg Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Image 20 is too much for words. I would hope before publishing this picture that the photographer identified if the victim in the red car had already been removed from the red car. If not, this is not something the photographer should NOT post online. Clearly there was a life-taking or life threatening serious injury within this car. That actually looks like fluids from the engine to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Survey thread: http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/17853-427-428-tornado-outbreak-damage-assessment-thread/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'm not absolutely confident that wasn't exceeded. Actually... Good point. As per your post earlier, God knows how many people might be unaccounted for in some of these very rural areas-- and it looks like even in the population centers, they're finding bodies everywhere. There's definitely a Katrina parallel here, in the sense that we're seeing a contemporary death toll that seems strangely anachronistic-- like it's from another era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Image 20 is too much for words. I would hope before publishing this picture that the photographer identified if the victim in the red car had already been removed from the red car. If not, this is not something the photographer should NOT post online. Clearly there was a life-taking or life threatening serious injury within this car. I'm not sure that's blood you are seeing. It's probably a combination of oil, transmission fluid, brake fluid, etc.. from the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Survey thread: http://www.americanw...essment-thread/ Is AL not part of the southeast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on_wx Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Will throw another one up at a later date... FWIW, April so far- including 3 tornado and 3 wind reports yesterday over southern Ontario... WFO T.O. is investigating today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Is AL not part of the southeast? Technically, but you know how we roll in this subforum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Rent Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 That actually looks like fluids from the engine to me. Color is wrong, and its too fluid looking, to be bodily fluids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojitodd Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 This is basically what I was trying to say. I wasn't actually saying the on-air personalities did a bad job, they did a tremendous job. I'm saying the impression that they gave was that if people 'hunkered down' they would survive. Spann and whoever that CBS guy was both knew it was a violent tornado long before it hit the Birmingham area. Maybe there needs to be more education to the public about what kind of damage a violent tornado can do and that simply getting in a hall closet will probably not protect you during a violent tornado so you should look for underground shelter or get out of its way. And once you have 'educated' the public, and a violent tornado is said to be coming, then you will have a worse disaster as people will then, instead of sheltering in their bathrooms or closets(where the vast majority will survive), be wasting time gathering their belongings, getting the pets, papers, etc. together, trying to get into their cars, debating which way to go, where the tornado is heading, trying to avoid other cars and traffic, and inevitably you will have people getting either caught in their cars and killed, or people killed in more vulnerable positions in their homes or near their homes as they hesitate, change their minds, etc. and are caught by the storm not in interior closets with blankets and pillows over them, but in living rooms, doorways, driveways, front yards, etc. This would kill more people in most situations imo. Telling people 'your best bet' is to shelter in place in an interior closet or bathroom in your home on the lowest level, unless you are in a mobile home, is still going to save the most lives. What do you expect them to say? Get out now!. or..Shelter in place-but if you get a direct hit you are dead meat? They are still giving people the best available option if there is no basement, shelter, or better structure immediately nearby to shelter in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Technically, but you know how we roll in this subforum. gotta take over 4 more states since you only have 30? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'm agreeing with this part. I think the impression a lot of people were given was just wrong. I watched Spann and he did an excellent job and I don't know what else could've been done but I think a lot of the average people were under the impression that they were "supposed to survive" if they only listened and did what they were told. Honestly, everyone on these forums knew better than that before this thing ever left Tuscaloosa. Many people on here correctly said that it would be a miracle if it weakened or dissapated before hitting the Birmingham region. We had all of the indicators....radar signature, live video footage, storm structure, unthinkable g2g velocities....I mean, we all were sitting here and we all knew that this was most likely going to be a major problem for some portion of the Birmingham metro. We watched it strengthen and watched its breadth increased as it approached and all of us knew in our guts that the hall closet was no place to be for this one. I happen to think that people deserve to know what kind of risk they are facing and I think most of them ignored their gut instincts by trying to do the "smart thing" and listened to the experts. I don't feel as if anyone was dishonest or did a bad job or anything but I think the impression a lot of people had was just not in sync with the harrowing reality of the situation at hand. Personally, I think they deserved to know if for no other reason than to say their last goodbyes or make their peace with God. You know, I've heard it around the office today....people look at these pictures today and ask "what is the point of trying to stay in your closet if you're going to be killed no matter what?" So you want media members to: 1) Guess the strength of an approaching tornado based on visuals (huge error bars) 2) Guess the path the tornado will be taking into the city (huge error bars) 3) Know the type of structures and their fortitude in the area where you're guessing the tornado will be striking (huge error bars) 4) And then use that information to let the audience members know that if they live in specific area x that their chances of survival are y huge error bars x huge error bars x huge error bars always yields terrific results I couldn't think of a bigger waste of time and energy then having media members include a bunch of qualifiers based on shoddy information in telling people that this is their best chance of survival. It's great that you think they deserved to know, but honestly, it's unrealistic to think that type of information could be conveyed to the public with any sort of accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Lizard Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 no thanks...if i don't want to build a safe room or shelter in my house then i shouldn't have too.... I clearly stated it was for new builds, obviously retrofits impose an undue burden. But if California and other earthquake prone areas can mandate minimum contruction requirements for new builds, ditto much of coastal Florida for newbuilds likely to experience hurricane force winds, than I don't think it is an undue infringement on civil liberties to have safe rooms or shelters as part of the new build code. On an unrelated note, so many Dixie Alley storms seem to be rain wrapped or obscured, and the Cullman and Tuscaloosa storms were so (frighteningly) photogenic, very low cloud bases but not obscured by rain. I'd be interested if anyone theorized why, I did notice on radar presentations the hooks were rather elongated, with the base of the hook and attendant debris ball well removed from the main part of the cell. Don't know if that was a function of strong inflow winds or what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 no thanks...if i don't want to build a safe room or shelter in my house then i shouldn't have too.... You tell 'em!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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