0.3 mile Tornado

[ArtRosen]

http://mesonet.agron.iastate.edu/p.php?pid=201104172348-KRAH-NOUS42-PNSRAH

583 NOUS42 KRAH 172348 PNSRAH NCZ007>011-021>028-038>043-073>078-083>086-088-089-180300- PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE RALEIGH NC 748 PM EDT SUN APR 17 2011 ...TORNADO CONFIRMED NEAR SANFORD...BROADWAY...HOLLY SPRINGS AND RALEIGH IN LEE AND WAKE COUNTIES COUNTY NORTH CAROLINA... LOCATION...SANFORD...BROADWAY...HOLLY SPRINGS AND RALEIGH IN LEE AND WAKE COUNTIES COUNTY NORTH CAROLINA DATE...APRIL 16, 2011 ESTIMATED TIME...253 PM EDT MAXIMUM EF-SCALE RATING...EF3 ESTIMATED MAXIMUM WIND SPEED...160 MPH MAXIMUM PATH WIDTH....3 MILES PATH LENGTH...APPROXIMATELY 63 MILES BEGINNING LAT/LON...35.34N / 79.31W ENDING LAT/LON...39.96N / 78.41W * FATALITIES...5 * INJURIES...TOTAL NUMBER UNKNOWNWow.

[Supercane]

The widest tornado on record is 2.5 miles. My bet is this is either a mistake or it means something different -- perhaps widest swath of damage including fallen debris.

[LithiaWx]

http://mesonet.agron...H-NOUS42-PNSRAH

583 NOUS42 KRAH 172348 PNSRAH NCZ007>011-021>028-038>043-073>078-083>086-088-089-180300- PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE RALEIGH NC 748 PM EDT SUN APR 17 2011 ...TORNADO CONFIRMED NEAR SANFORD...BROADWAY...HOLLY SPRINGS AND RALEIGH IN LEE AND WAKE COUNTIES COUNTY NORTH CAROLINA... LOCATION...SANFORD...BROADWAY...HOLLY SPRINGS AND RALEIGH IN LEE AND WAKE COUNTIES COUNTY NORTH CAROLINA DATE...APRIL 16, 2011 ESTIMATED TIME...253 PM EDT MAXIMUM EF-SCALE RATING...EF3 ESTIMATED MAXIMUM WIND SPEED...160 MPH MAXIMUM PATH WIDTH....3 MILES PATH LENGTH...APPROXIMATELY 63 MILES BEGINNING LAT/LON...35.34N / 79.31W ENDING LAT/LON...39.96N / 78.41W * FATALITIES...5 * INJURIES...TOTAL NUMBER UNKNOWNWow.

that's not three miles. I believe it's like 1/2 to 3/4 or so. I saw a chart the other day and I'm positive that's not in miles. I'll edit this post in a little bit with a link for you.

Edit : I can't find it again but it was basically a 1-5 scale on tornado width with each number representing a different range on the width from smaller to larger.

[ArtRosen]

that's not three miles. I believe it's like 1/2 to 3/4 or so. I saw a chart the other day and I'm positive that's not in miles. I'll edit this post in a little bit with a link for you.

Edit : I can't find it again but it was basically a 1-5 scale on tornado width with each number representing a different range on the width from smaller to larger.

I've googled path widrth and tornado and I'm coming up with a lot of results showing tornadoes that were 100-150 yards in width having that maxmium path width. Not only do we most likely have the biggest 3-day tornado outbreak ever, but we could also have the biggest tornado ever recorded. Good thing this tornado was only rated an EF-3. Can you imagine what kind of damage an EF-5 3 mile wide tornado would've done?

[MAG5035]

http://mesonet.agron...H-NOUS42-PNSRAH

583 NOUS42 KRAH 172348 PNSRAH NCZ007>011-021>028-038>043-073>078-083>086-088-089-180300- PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE RALEIGH NC 748 PM EDT SUN APR 17 2011 ...TORNADO CONFIRMED NEAR SANFORD...BROADWAY...HOLLY SPRINGS AND RALEIGH IN LEE AND WAKE COUNTIES COUNTY NORTH CAROLINA... LOCATION...SANFORD...BROADWAY...HOLLY SPRINGS AND RALEIGH IN LEE AND WAKE COUNTIES COUNTY NORTH CAROLINA DATE...APRIL 16, 2011 ESTIMATED TIME...253 PM EDT MAXIMUM EF-SCALE RATING...EF3 ESTIMATED MAXIMUM WIND SPEED...160 MPH MAXIMUM PATH WIDTH....3 MILES PATH LENGTH...APPROXIMATELY 63 MILES BEGINNING LAT/LON...35.34N / 79.31W ENDING LAT/LON...39.96N / 78.41W * FATALITIES...5 * INJURIES...TOTAL NUMBER UNKNOWNWow.

That is pretty intriguing, not sure if the spacing in the text product is a bit screwy there. In the link it goes like:

MAXIMUM PATH WIDTH....3

MILES PATH LENGTH...APPROXIMATELY 63 MILES

The text really didn't really have to specify twice that the miles path length is 63 miles, so I think that probably does mean the max damage path width is 3 miles. With that said, you don't necessarily have to be inside the actual funnel (the condensation cloud/debris field that makes the funnel visible) to observe damage from winds associated with the tornado. The intense pressure gradient associated with a strong tornado like that will still create significant inflow winds at least a mile or so away from the funnel itself that can cause some minor damage (i.e some trees down/minor structure damage). Still some very impressive stats nonetheless with this particular tornado that sadly, proved deadly as well.

[Jon]

I was puzzled by this too but I do believe they're correct. I mean hey, if Reed Timmer tweets it, then it has to be true, right? right??

that's not three miles. I believe it's like 1/2 to 3/4 or so. I saw a chart the other day and I'm positive that's not in miles. I'll edit this post in a little bit with a link for you.

Edit : I can't find it again but it was basically a 1-5 scale on tornado width with each number representing a different range on the width from smaller to larger.

Makes sense, but NWS RAH in other documents are doing the width by miles, so to be inconsistent with documents most likely written by the same meteorologists is just silly.

I'm guessing this wasn't measured just by "falling debris" stretching 3 miles. This was probably 3 mile wide of complete devastation, or bad enough in some areas to the point where the survey team understands that to be the case. If the biggest is 2.5 miles, what makes one think this one isn't 3 miles?

Taken from the Fayetteville tornado report (from the NWS RAH site):

MAXIMUM PATH WIDTH...ONE MILE

PATH LENGTH...65 MILES ESTIMATED

further into the document

AT ITS PEAK...THE TORNADO WAS A HALF MILE TO A MILE WIDE.

[MAG5035]

I was puzzled by this too but I do believe they're correct. I mean hey, if Reed Timmer tweets it, then it has to be true, right? right??

Makes sense, but NWS RAH in other documents are doing the width by miles, so to be inconsistent with documents most likely written by the same meteorologists is just silly.

I'm guessing this wasn't measured just by "falling debris" stretching 3 miles. This was probably 3 mile wide of complete devastation, or bad enough in some areas to the point where the survey team understands that to be the case. If the biggest is 2.5 miles, what makes one think this one isn't 3 miles?

Did some youtubing for this particular storm and also reviewed thru the southeast thread coverage as well with this. There was a good bit of half decent footage of this tornado and the reflectivity/velocity images that were posted were just downright astounding.

Here's one of the better views from a distance I was able to find, there was also some pretty good TV station pics of it rolling thru Raleigh over in the southeast severe thread:

Now about the width, the vids and radar def supported that this thing was indeed quite wide. It was also rainwrapped as well, so it probably appeared even wider yet. I doubt there was any point where there was a 3 mile wide path of complete devastation, the ground zero stuff was probably more confined of course. But after having a look at the actual storm it certainly looks probable that there was some light-moderate damage that spanned the 3 mile width. I'd be curious to see the RAH's final survey on this (this ones preliminary) as they may tweak some numbers. I picked a heck of a weekend to be out of town and mostly away from the computer on Saturday, what an incredible outbreak.

[Gorky]

It's fairly probable this actually meant to be 0.3 miles. The '...' notation may be used for pauses for text to speech output perhaps. This was probably formatted with that in mind with the creator missing the fact that it reads funny. Maximum Path Width <pause> point 3 miles is the likely intended meaning. I'm sure if it was 3 miles, there would be mention of a record path width somewhere in there too!

[janetjanet998]

a few things:

1) you don't count strong inflow winds , even if they so some damage, as part of the tornado..Its not uncommon in the plains states to have 75+ MPH inflow winds a mile or more away from the actual tornado

2) from the video I have seen(such as the local TV streaming it live from downtown) that was not the tornado, but a large rainsheild wraping around the bigger meso...a smaller feature(the tornado) was hidden within it

3) the damage reports and text in the storm report do not support a 3 mile wide tornado in Raleigh, if fact they discribe a rather weak and a path about maybe 1/4 mile wide

4) Raliegh and the city of holly springs got lucky,,,the tornado was weak F0 or F1 when it went though most of the city..there wasn't "complete devastation" as someone mentioned in this thread. When I saw the radar my biggest fear was wichita falls 1979 times 10...that tornado was very wide and the F3 and F4 damage within in was also very wide

edit: added pic of the 1979 tornado

5) Someone mentioed we are lucky that this wasn't a mile+ wide f5 or something....keep in mind that there is really no such thing as a "mile wide EF5" tornado in that sense...a tornado is rated by the maximum damage within its path, even if that damage is very isolated. Even the 1999 Oklahoma city Tornado had only small isolated areas of F5 damage

my guess it's either a typo or the survey is not complete

[isohume]

Whew! I'm glad we got to the bottom of this typo.

[Ed Lizard]

Well, there are technicalities, and there is sensible weather.

All my chasing is on TWC or Discovery, but I have seen RFD winds on TV capable of causing fairly significant damage at a fair distance from the tornado.

[bluewave]

Here's the correction:

CORRECTED FOR MAXIMUM PATH WIDTH

MAXIMUM PATH WIDTH....0.3 MILES

http://www.erh.noaa....eigh_survey.pdf

[ArtRosen]

Here's the correction:

CORRECTED FOR MAXIMUM PATH WIDTH

MAXIMUM PATH WIDTH....0.3 MILES

http://www.erh.noaa....eigh_survey.pdf

Oops.

[k***]

lol

[icebreaker5221]

fail

[Sickman]

Perhaps a thread title edit is in order?

[ALhurricane]

I can sympathize with the typo. Very difficult to come back into the office and type up a report after a 12-14 hour survey day. It happens, but it was corrected.

[isohume]

I can sympathize with the typo. Very difficult to come back into the office and type up a report after a 12-14 hour survey day. It happens, but it was corrected.

Yep...our guys got back to the office last night after a 14 hr day. They helped RAH out too. Anyway, one of the PNS's that went out had the wrong state. lol.

[Amped]

http://mesonet.agron...H-NOUS42-PNSRAH

583 NOUS42 KRAH 172348 PNSRAH NCZ007>011-021>028-038>043-073>078-083>086-088-089-180300- PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE RALEIGH NC 748 PM EDT SUN APR 17 2011 ...TORNADO CONFIRMED NEAR SANFORD...BROADWAY...HOLLY SPRINGS AND RALEIGH IN LEE AND WAKE COUNTIES COUNTY NORTH CAROLINA... LOCATION...SANFORD...BROADWAY...HOLLY SPRINGS AND RALEIGH IN LEE AND WAKE COUNTIES COUNTY NORTH CAROLINA DATE...APRIL 16, 2011 ESTIMATED TIME...253 PM EDT MAXIMUM EF-SCALE RATING...EF3 ESTIMATED MAXIMUM WIND SPEED...160 MPH MAXIMUM PATH WIDTH....3 MILES PATH LENGTH...APPROXIMATELY 63 MILES BEGINNING LAT/LON...35.34N / 79.31W ENDING LAT/LON...39.96N / 78.41W * FATALITIES...5 * INJURIES...TOTAL NUMBER UNKNOWNWow.

Haha four dots before the 3. Three dots everywhere else.

Lesson for the NWS, use 0.3 instead of .3

[aslkahuna]

Yep, an ellipsis usually does have only 3 dots.

Steve

[Dark Energy]

I always thot of a mile wide TOR as a wedge. A 3 mile wide TOR? That was hard to fatham. A super wedge? Idk. I will say altho I was skeptical over this claim at first until the survey was done. I agree tho, it should have been listed as 0.3 for the sake that you can never know how the media will handle something like this. Question it? Or run with it. Anyone know if it was reported as 3 mile wide on the local news?

[Avdave]

Yep...our guys got back to the office last night after a 14 hr day. They helped RAH out too. Anyway, one of the PNS's that went out had the wrong state. lol.

Good job Scott, LOL

[HurricaneJosh]

The tagline of this thread should be changed to one of the following:

"Totally thinkable"

"Decidedly average"

"500,000 in 1,000,000"

Pick one!

[isohume]

Good job Scott, LOL

Thanks Dave! You know my motto, "a typo a day, keeps boredom at bay!"

Also, I'd just like to go on record here as saying this whole chaotic issue and thread could've been avoided if RAH would've listed the width as 0.3. Thank-you.