2010-2011 SNE snowfall map

[Ginx snewx]

I'm willing to give it an A. The persistent cold and epic January sealed the deal. A deep snowpack is not unusual here but it seemed when it wasn't snowing it was quite cold. I had more -10 or lower morning lows this year than any in recent memory. Cold and snow, a beautiful combo. The other factor for me was the backcountry skiing was fantastic for most of the Winter. (a slow start was the only blemish). I still have some snow hanging on but, alas, the end is near. Glad to have you aboard here as I've enjoyed your obs/input throughout the Winter. You and Andy (WX4Cast) provide a great western counter balance to what can sometimes be a Eastern centric forum. Let's hope next Winter is as entertaining.

Best year skiing in a long time. Did not have one trip where I saw bare ground. The most epic six week stretch in my life. Crappy ending down here but by the time it got crappy down here I was in full ski mode so when the pattern shifted North it was perfect timing for me.

[ski MRG]

I beat that last winter.

Savor it Southlander.

[Guest Pamela]

Northshorewx and William have both said to me they think the highest average for LI is around 30"....

I think I said several times that I believe the hilly N. Shore towns average around 32" - 33"...Upton OKX is not on the N. Shore but rather central L.I. and (quite close to sea level) and their average is now 31.74" - note Upton snow chart at link:

http://www.bnl.gov/w...hlySnowfall.htm

[ski MRG]

Best year skiing in a long time. Did not have one trip where I saw bare ground. The most epic six week stretch in my life. Crappy ending down here but by the time it got crappy down here I was in full ski mode so when the pattern shifted North it was perfect timing for me.

Great ski season for me and it's not over yet. AK was such a blast and while the annual Tuckerman's trip will be the season's swansong AK was the finale. The only bad thing about Winter is one day it ends.

[Guest Pamela]

LI's best spots probably only average about 3" less than Dobbs Ferry...they have some sneaky good areas on the north shore that avg near 33". Dobbs ferry coop is at 270 feet, so they might average an inch less than you. But they avg 36". So its not totally weird to see them cash in on a 10 year period more than your area.

Yes Will...spot on assessment.

[Guest Pamela]

Yes, mostly because of 04-05. That winter, Long Island has 70-80" of snow while the northern suburbs here in Westchester had about 50"...Long Island made out very well with the January 2005 blizzard while it was just a moderate MECS for Westchester with around 14" of snow recorded here. Also, the 12/19/09 storm absolutely slammed Central LI; there was a band of 35-40dbz echoes stretching from there to GON, and skierinvermont reported that it was snowing around 4"/hour in Old Lyme, CT. Most of the Hudson Valley was caught in subsidence from that mega-band, although a bit of convergence did seem to develop over the Hudson Valley...we finished with 8" of snow here, not that much but a nice storm with temperatures around 18F and a biting northeast wind. The 04-05 Winter and 12/19 demonstrate how Long Island has managed to do incredibly well despite averaging much less snowfall per season than I do.

North central L.I. also beat Dobbs Ferry by a wide margin in 2003-04...Upton measured 60.2" that year...2000-01 was a close one when Upton measured 51.2"....

even 2008-09 was a good year at Upton with 43.0". Upton also beat Dobbs Ferry in 2002-03: 62.1" to 52.7"

[Guest Pamela]

Not me. I go with around 32 -33 for the "snowbelt" and William and I have discussed the possibility that the 400 foot location may approach 35"

Yes Ed...apparently the two of us have been misquoted...no problem though...it happens...and what's a couple of inches among friends...

[Guest Pamela]

Upton has measured 481.3 inches of snow over the last 11 winters...2000-01 through 2010-11...an average of 43.75 inches of snow per year..making the last 11 years a solid foot snowier than average...I'd be willing to bet that is the largest anomaly for a station in the NYC area during those years.

http://www.bnl.gov/w...hlySnowfall.htm

[Damage In Tolland]

I beat that last winter.

[PhineasC]

Savor it Southlander.

I have more elevation than you down here in the south.

[ski MRG]

I have more elevation than you down here in the south.

You're latitudinally challenged, among other things.

[metagraphica]

56" for the 2010-11 winter season.

[ORH_wxman]

Upton has measured 481.3 inches of snow over the last 11 winters...2000-01 through 2010-11...an average of 43.75 inches of snow per year..making the last 11 years a solid foot snowier than average...I'd be willing to bet that is the largest anomaly for a station in the NYC area during those years.

http://www.bnl.gov/w...hlySnowfall.htm

Yeah I think I said last night that I'd bet central/northern LI has the highest snowfall anomaly WRT climo in the past decade.

[HoarfrostHubb]

I wonder how hard it would be to put together an "average" map...

I know getting the data would be a bear...

And how far back? 5 years, 10? 30?

Your maps are piling up Will!

[ORH_wxman]

Ryan, can you confirm Wiz's total in W Hartford, it sounds low to me, but maybe he's right.

[ROOSTA]

Just to fill in a possible gap.

Was a good-winter. Would have been a great winter but we all lived through what transpired.

[ORH_wxman]

Map is starting to take shape, but I still have a lot of work to do. The SNE area is contoured, but I will likely be adjusting the contours a bit as more data comes in

[weatherwiz]

Ryan, can you confirm Wiz's total in W Hartford, it sounds low to me, but maybe he's right.

If anything it may be about 2'' too low...In that Historical storm here we both had measured about 22.5'' and the storm was just about done and I had passed out b/c I was up for like 36 straight hours...when I woke back up and read the posts I missed one of his posts said "Well I'm calling it 24''". I'm not sure if he meant for BDL (b/c that's what they measured) or while I was sleeping we got some extra bursts of snow that gave us an extra 1.5''.

But last time he listed his winter total and I did mine we were like within 1.5'' of each other.

[weatherwiz]

What also sucks for me is (and I think this goes for Ryan as well) I really don't have a great place to measure snowfall. My yard is totally enclosed in with trees and bushes and there are lots of obstructions. I usually have to go into a neighbors yard or go across the street into the parking lot of the package store (if they haven't plowed at all).

[weatherwiz]

You also have to remember there were a few events such as the 1/7 event which had some crazy gradient. Parts of Hartford county got as much as 7-9''...while here we got 4''. Here are some totals across Hartford County from that event:

Burlington, CT: 9''

Southington, CT: 9''

Bristol, CT: 8.5''

Unionville, CT 8.3''

Berlin, CT: 7.5''

East Farmington, CT: 6''

Collinsville, CT: 6''

New Britain, CT: 4.6''

Glastonbury, CT: 4.5''

Wethersfield, CT 4.5''

Manchester, CT: 4''

South Windsor, CT: 4''

West Hartford, CT: 4''

Newington, CT: 4''

North Granby, CT: 3.2''

Enfield, CT: 3''

Remember this is also the event where BDL measured 6.6'' but then it was changed...forgot what it went down to, it was like 3.8'' I think.

There is also the 1/26 event where there were some funky totals. I measured 11'' and Ryan agreed with that. He said there was a 16'' report out of Newington which sounded too high...it was in the PNS but it wasn't there in the final one I believe. BDL measured 12'' in that...1'' more than me.

Other than this though looking back at the past storms and PNS statements I'm pretty damn close (within 1-1.5''...either higher or lower)) of pretty much every other city surrounding me.

[NorthShoreWx]

Upton has measured 481.3 inches of snow over the last 11 winters...2000-01 through 2010-11...an average of 43.75 inches of snow per year..making the last 11 years a solid foot snowier than average...I'd be willing to bet that is the largest anomaly for a station in the NYC area during those years.

http://www.bnl.gov/w...hlySnowfall.htm

I'm not sure if the rest of the decade justified enduring 2001-2002.

[ORH_wxman]

Map is starting to take shape, but I still have a lot of work to do. The SNE area is contoured, but I will likely be adjusting the contours a bit as more data comes in

Bump...help fill in the gaps.

[nzucker]

North central L.I. also beat Dobbs Ferry by a wide margin in 2003-04...Upton measured 60.2" that year...2000-01 was a close one when Upton measured 51.2"....

even 2008-09 was a good year at Upton with 43.0". Upton also beat Dobbs Ferry in 2002-03: 62.1" to 52.7"

Yes you guys were right, I was wrong in saying that it was 30"/year for all the North Shore. You, Ed, and Will all agree on 32-33" for the snowiest towns with around 35" for Jaynes Hill, so I believe you considering your life experience and historical knowledge. I think in total the North Shore probably averages around 30" since there are some less than ideal spots too near the City's UHI or right on the Sound with maritime influence, but I have been thoroughly convinced that some of you only average like 3" less than the Dobbs Ferry Co-op and 5" less than my house/woods. Thank you for resolving this, I am not an expert on LI climo although I do know that most spots on LI average quite a bit less than Southern Westchester.

03-04 and 04-05 weren't great winters here for snowfall....I loved the January 2004 and January 2005 cold shots, but my house only received about 50" in each winter, about 130% of climo, and nowhere near 09-10 and 10-11 where my house had nearly double its climo. I'm not sure how Upton managed to get so much in 03-04: the only snowfalls of consequence I remember were December 2003 where Westchester did well, a few fluffy clippers in January, and then the twin storms near the March Equinox which were both around 6-7" here. I think the DF Co-op underreported one of those storms as I recall both of them being very solid hits, and I remember them well since I was attending a huge journalism conference at Columbia University during those events and was worried about making it to the City with the snow, but it ended up being fine on the train. What made the difference for Upton? 04-05 makes more sense since we saw just over a foot in January 2005; doubtless LI had much more in that late-bloomer that smacked Cape Cod with 40" snow...we also didn't do that well in March 2005 although many people in SNE consider it a big March, and I remember from Ed's website that LI had some great snowfalls that month whereas it was basically a disappointment here.

02-03 we didn't get that much in PDII compared to others, although the co-op may have underreported slightly since there was an 18" total nearby, and I believe they came in around 16" or so. However, that storm was definitely a disappointment here (I was away but still...) as there were so many 20"+ totals and Dobbs definitely didn't get that. I did do very well in the Christmas 2002 Nor'easter, and I believe that elevation played a big factor in that storm since I had about a foot of snow whereas it seems most people had 6-10"...it might have been because temperatures were pretty marginal in the beginning that being in a semi-rural environment at 350-400' made a huge difference in sticking right away...I recall that storm as one of the most joyous moments of my life, heavy deformation banding on Christmas Day, unexpected, with a foot of new snow to break in a great winter. I still have tons of pictures of that event and the early December '02 storm if you want to see them...I think I probably had around 55-60" that winter by squeezing out a bit more in XMAS though I need to review the data carefully.

08-09 was 45" here, measured that year pretty well. Upton did well as LI got crushed in the 3/2 storm (which I was in Chile for but know we got 10"). Some of the amounts out there were in the 16" range which I found remarkable for such a generally disorganized Nor'easter. There was a huge gradient between NYC and its suburbs that winter as Central Park only reported 27.6"...they didn't do as well as LI in the 3/2 storm (8") but one of the biggest differences between the City and its environs was the original 12/19 storm....that was an overrunning event where the rain/snow line was originally in Central NJ but then mixing got up to JFK later in the day before a weak coastal formed...Central Park reported 4", JFK around 2", but the North Shore and Westchester got a nice pounding with 8". I measured that event very well as it was the first big snowstorm at my house since February 2006. Was a beautiful storm with 35dbz flashing over Westchester at its height, nice banding. Westchester also did pretty well in 1/28 with nearly 6", good for a SW flow event, that wasn't as kind to Central Park obviously. Loved the cold that winter...came home around 1/30 and the next few nights were all single digits. Decent snow event in early February with 3.5" and then a minor snowfall on 2/18 that changed to rain eventually, another SW flow storm.

Yeah I think I said last night that I'd bet central/northern LI has the highest snowfall anomaly WRT climo in the past decade.

Totally agree....1/27/11, 12/19/09, 3/2/09, 1/22/05, and 2/17/03 were all storms in which LI jackpotted or did very well. I can't say that for many big coastals here except 2/25/10.

I'm not sure if the rest of the decade justified enduring 2001-2002.

That winter was misery here, only 7" of snow at Dobbs Ferry and constant warmth. You barely even needed central heating that winter, terrible. A disgrace after a nice winter in 00-01 but was worth paying the price to see 02-03, 03-04, 04-05, and to some extent 05-06 although I thought that winter basically sucked besides two storms. Was the only winter of my HS years that wasn't cold, although it was sort of nice as a senior to be able to hang outside with friends in the cold season....made it a little easier to sneak outside for a few puffs.

[ORH_wxman]

Feb 28-Mar 1, 2005 hammered LI while your area got much less....they also got a terrific deformation band on Mar 8, 2005 IIRC. They might have gotten some more on Mar 12, 2005.

[nzucker]

Feb 28-Mar 1, 2005 hammered LI while your area got much less....they also got a terrific deformation band on Mar 8, 2005 IIRC. They might have gotten some more on Mar 12, 2005.

Which one was the famous flash freeze, Will? I believe that was March 2005...it caused a lot of accidents and headaches down here as some arctic air moved in suddenly.

What were the synoptics like for the 3/1/05 and 3/8/05 events?

Also, do you know how LI beat Westchester in 03-04?

[ORH_wxman]

Which one was the famous flash freeze, Will? I believe that was March 2005...it caused a lot of accidents and headaches down here as some arctic air moved in suddenly.

What were the synoptics like for the 3/1/05 and 3/8/05 events?

Also, do you know how LI beat Westchester in 03-04?

Mar 8, 2005 was the flash freeze...I believe parts of LI got a good deformation band in that. 3/1/05 was a weird storm...it was supposed to give the most snow tot he western areas but a huge blob of convection formed and moved LI and then over SE MA and it robbed a lot of moisture...but amazingly, it was all parachutes down there and it was supposed to be rain. A huge bust. I think some of them got 12" in 4 hours. I remember I was supposed to get like 8-12" but ended up with like 5-6" and being pissed off.

'03-'04 I think the clipper in January smoked LI but there was a sharp cutoff to the north and west. I'll bet LI raked it in that system and you didn't. Also they may have done much better in the 2nd of the March systems. I recall ACK getting smoked in that, which would lead me to believe that LI did a lot better than you did.

[NorthShoreWx]

Feb 28-Mar 1, 2005 hammered LI while your area got much less....they also got a terrific deformation band on Mar 8, 2005 IIRC. They might have gotten some more on Mar 12, 2005.

I considered all of the storms "moderate" at the time, but there were 5 of them in less than 3 weeks and I described them here:

http://www.northshorewx.com/20050221.asp

[nzucker]

Mar 8, 2005 was the flash freeze...I believe parts of LI got a good deformation band in that. 3/1/05 was a weird storm...it was supposed to give the most snow tot he western areas but a huge blob of convection formed and moved LI and then over SE MA and it robbed a lot of moisture...but amazingly, it was all parachutes down there and it was supposed to be rain. A huge bust. I think some of them got 12" in 4 hours. I remember I was supposed to get like 8-12" but ended up with like 5-6" and being pissed off.

'03-'04 I think the clipper in January smoked LI but there was a sharp cutoff to the north and west. I'll bet LI raked it in that system and you didn't. Also they may have done much better in the 2nd of the March systems. I recall ACK getting smoked in that, which would lead me to believe that LI did a lot better than you did.

Wow, that 3/1 storm sounds rare....almost an extreme version of the 3/21 event this year where everyone in Westchester was supposed to get rain and it ended up being snow under heavy echoes, although in the case of the 3/1 event it was hours and hours of heavy snow, not a 40-minute burst. We had those same type of wet parachutes/aggregates in 3/21 that ended up accumulating pretty efficiently despite marginal temperatures and a warm ground.

I can believe that the clippers would have been more beneficial to LI in Jan 04...those ultra-cold arctic clipper events sometimes end up being too dry for Westchester to get much snow but LI does well with ocean inflow where the storm picks up some extra moisture as it passes to the east...my house in the Poconos also does well on those arctic clippers with the orographic enhancement, but they're not for someone living in a valley without maritime inflow like me in Dobbs. I do think that 2nd March system may have been undermeasured here, it was a lot of snow since I was up super early to go to Columbia, probably around 6am, but it melted so fast that time of observation could have affected the DF Co-op's total. When I got back from the City at 5pm at the conclusion of the conference, there was almost no snow anywhere except a few droopy patches under heavy bushes/hedges. I could have seen my getting 8" there, but not sure of an exact amount so I won't necessarily criticize the Co-op either.

Thanks Will! Great memory as usual..

[ORH_wxman]

I considered all of the storms "moderate" at the time, but there were 5 of them in less than 3 weeks and I described them here:

http://www.northshor...om/20050221.asp

I'm surprised some parts of LI didn't get more in the 3/1 storm. I know Plymouth MA got 13" in 5 hours out of that, though the "blob" was still expanding and intensifying as it went northeast.

[Guest Pamela]

Also, do you know how LI beat Westchester in 03-04?

The January 14th and January 27th events were the highlights of January 2004. Both were snowier on LI than Westchester...but not by any major amount. December 2003 also had the event on the 14th that put down around 5" on LI...not sure about Westchester. The major event on December 5th was probably somewhat snowier on LI. February 2004 saw the South Fork get clipped with up to 5" but almost everyone else on LI got zip. March 2004 looks fairly close between Westchester and LI....