SNE April obs/disco Thread

[Ginx snewx]

Interesting find! My best guess is that since the Adirondacks are still snow covered and, therefore, colder than the surrounding areas, cold air rushed downward off the higher elevations into the surrounding lowlands. The leading edge of the cold air advancement likely caused some small scale lift producing some clouds much like what you'd see on the leading edge of a thunderstorm outflow boundary. I think what we're seeing here is probably a localized Adirondack induced katabatic wind scenario where cold air rushes downward off of snow-covered mountains. Nearly calm synoptic scale winds likely allowed the air to descend of the mountains equally in all directions, giving it a symmetrical appearance.

Nice explanation Mitch. Weather always keeps my interest year round.

[ski MRG]

No one builds 1500 square foot capes anymore... Do most of your clients request "green" tech or do you do it anyway?

There is a firm that will lease you solar panels and you get the electricity... supposed to be cheaper than the regular electric utilities, but I used their little calculator and I would save maybe $12 per year...

Not enough sunlight here I guess.

More and more clients are requesting green technologies. The problem is that only the millionaires can afford large scale effective systems. My friends in AK are off the grid and both households get a large part of their electricity via solar (with diesel generator back-up). Their arrays track the sun as it travels across the sky. Batteries store the electricity until it is called for. If the sun fails to keep up with demand the system automatically starts the diesel generator to charge the banks of batteries. Totally cool. I'll be doing the same before long.

LOL..whoosh right over your head. I was being sarcastic my long haired friend

Oh please. Not buying it.

[Mr Torchey]

interesting forecast tomorrow, major bust potential either way depending on the warm front and any potential sun.

[Ginx snewx]

More and more clients are requesting green technologies. The problem is that only the millionaires can afford large scale effective systems. My friends in AK are off the grid and both households get a large part of their electricity via solar (with diesel generator back-up). Their arrays track the sun as it travels across the sky. Batteries store the electricity until it is called for. If the sun fails to keep up with demand the system automatically starts the diesel generator to charge the banks of batteries. Totally cool. I'll be doing the same before long.

Oh please. Not buying it.

It's extremely disconcerting how expensive solar is, the payback for what I priced out was nearly 20 years at which time overhaul would be needed. Until the technology is mass produced for the homeowner the cost is prohibitive and payback is negligible. We will never lose our dependence on fossil fuels at this rate, was nice to see the wind farm approved for off the Cape today though.

[ski MRG]

It's extremely disconcerting how expensive solar is, the payback for what I priced out was nearly 20 years at which time overhaul would be needed. Until the technology is mass produced for the homeowner the cost is prohibitive and payback is negligible. We will never lose our dependence on fossil fuels at this rate, was nice to see the wind farm approved for off the Cape today though.

The only way my friends in AK were able to pull it off was they installed everything themselves. The cost of the components was high but if labor was added to it it wouldn't have happened. They have no one but themselves to rely on whether it's maintaining their aircrafts or building their homes. Very self reliant people, probably why we've been friends since we were tots.

[Mr Torchey]

It's extremely disconcerting how expensive solar is, the payback for what I priced out was nearly 20 years at which time overhaul would be needed. Until the technology is mass produced for the homeowner the cost is prohibitive and payback is negligible. We will never lose our dependence on fossil fuels at this rate, was nice to see the wind farm approved for off the Cape today though.

Great post Steve! Its getting boring depending on foreign energy, the bloodshed and cost is getting really boring, sad that we still will not find ways to make money off alternative energies even though the technology has been there for decades. LIS would be a perfect candidate for wind turbines, oh well.

[HoarfrostHubb]

Interesting article in Sunday's Boston Globe about tethered blimp based turbines

Crank them up to 2000 feet where the wind is more reliable. Cheaper too.

[wxeyeNH]

Interesting find! My best guess is that since the Adirondacks are still snow covered and, therefore, colder than the surrounding areas, cold air rushed downward off the higher elevations into the surrounding lowlands. Recall that cold air has a much higher density than warmer air. The leading edge of the cold air advancement likely caused some small scale lift producing some clouds much like what you'd see on the leading edge of a thunderstorm outflow boundary. I think what we're seeing here is probably a localized Adirondack induced katabatic wind scenario where cold air rushes downward off of snow-covered mountains. Nearly calm synoptic scale winds likely allowed the air to descend of the mountains equally in all directions, giving it a symmetrical appearance.

Thanks for the explanation. What I still don't understand is if the cold air is downsloping off of the higher terrain won't it be drying and warming? If so why would it create clouds? I guess the answer would be the colder denser air isunder cutting the more moist air in the lowlands causing that air to rise and condensate.

[Ginx snewx]

The only way my friends in AK were able to pull it off was they installed everything themselves. The cost of the components was high but if labor was added to it it wouldn't have happened. They have no one but themselves to rely on whether it's maintaining their aircrafts or building their homes. Very self reliant people, probably why we've been friends since we were tots.

Oh believe me I and my friends would install it if it was worth it, just is not worth the up front investment money wise. If I was better off and did not care about cost then the green benefit would be the reason I would do it. We actually tried to get solar arrays and a wind turbine at work, however the solar array azimuth was incorrect and the wind data indicated it was not feasible. I have however cut our consumption of electricity by 42% since 2005 by a combination of load scheduling, looser deadbands, replacing constant volume motors with variable speed and overall education of staff on conservation. The result has been a multimillion dollar savings in energy costs over that 6 year span, still trying to come up with ways to save. Using weather data on time and forecasted is my latest foray which initially has produced great savings.

[dendrite]

Thanks for the explanation. What I still don't understand is if the cold air is downsloping off of the higher terrain won't it be drying and warming? If so why would it create clouds? I guess the answer would be the colder denser air isunder cutting the more moist air in the lowlands causing that air to rise and condensate.

A katabatic wind does warm adiabatically as it descends, but the point is that the airmass origination is so much colder than the air it is advecting to that it is still colder.

I'm not sure this was katabatic, but there was a boundary that moved through when looking at the mesonet obs. Most of the stations were light westerly before 12z and then stronger out of the E/NE after 13z. ART has had a prevailing NE wind all day since the sfc high migrated a bit north and a stronger easterly gradient developed. There was some lingering low level moisture in the area ahead of the boundary with many sites near saturation from radiational cooling. The drier/downsloping air behind the leading edge of the boundary/easterly flow probably gave just enough lift to form that thin cloud feature. That's my guess.

[weatherMA]

I'm a wx extremist like Kev. I can't explain why, but I love a good 100F/75F day. I know it's sick and twisted, but what can I say?

It's cool...so long as you don't have to work in it..lol. Anomalies are pretty awesome...I'm with you. I had the sick thought during the Jan '04 mega cold.

I hear you guys on that, but I think at least Scott can agree that lets save the 90/74 stuff for July. I guess I really don't mind it if I'm by a pool /have A.C at night. If I was like Pete and didn't have A.C, I would dread those days.

I especially don't want 90s next week because 1) no A.C would be up and 2) I would be in school for it.

[ski MRG]

I hear you guys on that, but I think at least Scott can agree that lets save the 90/74 stuff for July. I guess I really don't mind it if I'm by a pool /have A.C at night. If I was like Pete and didn't have A.C, I would dread those days.

I especially don't want 90s next week because 1) no A.C would be up and 2) I would be in school for it.

I get one or two nights a year that are a little uncomfortable. If it's really bad I have a quiet fan for the bedroom. Even last year's warmer than normal Summer only produced 2-3 90 degree days. The forest helps cool things off in a hurry at night. No concrete/blacktop here to keep temps up. I dread the first warm spell as it will bring out the blackflies. I despise the black flies.

[weatherMA]

I get one or two nights a year that are a little uncomfortable. If it's really bad I have a quiet fan for the bedroom. Even last year's warmer than normal Summer only produced 2-3 90 degree days. The forest helps cool things off in a hurry at night. No concrete/blacktop here to keep temps up. I dread the first warm spell as it will bring out the blackflies. I despise the black flies.

Yeah, you cool off faster at your location so it makes sense. I just prefer to be cooler at night so even on the average summer night that is in the 60s I usually use it just to be comfortable.

[nzucker]

I get one or two nights a year that are a little uncomfortable. If it's really bad I have a quiet fan for the bedroom. Even last year's warmer than normal Summer only produced 2-3 90 degree days. The forest helps cool things off in a hurry at night. No concrete/blacktop here to keep temps up. I dread the first warm spell as it will bring out the blackflies. I despise the black flies.

I hate black flies...they are really bad at our vacation home in the Poconos, so I just refuse to go there in May. I worked on an organic farm in Central Quebec for a few weeks in late May 2006, and the flies/mosquitoes were the worse I had ever seen in that northern clime up near Chicoutimi. We burned fires of dirty brush to keep the air smoky and the flies away, but it was basically in vain as we were all eaten alive...we went swimming in the river on the few afternoons that got into the upper 70s, despite the incredibly cold water rushing out of the still snow-covered mountains, and the clear waters of the Saguenay were such a relief to my bitten body. Beautiful place but awful flies; however, as the owner said, "Si tu veux la vie sauvage, tu dois faire des sacrifices." ("If you want to live the wild/natural life, you must make sacrifices")...so true.

Yeah, you cool off faster at your location so it makes sense. I just prefer to be cooler at night so even on the average summer night that is in the 60s I usually use it just to be comfortable.

This is the one thing I hate about NYC summers: even the northern suburbs, which are fairly leafy, are influenced by UHI and cool off slowly. Given the generally humid climate of the Northeast, combined with the heat island effect, it's just brutal here in the summer months. The average low in mid July is 66F in Dobbs, and I consider that to be much too high. I can remember one night in the generally warm 2006 Summer when I was sitting out with a friend on his roof at 4am having a smoke, and the thermometer out there still read nearly 85F, this in the wee hours! I loathe the extremely muggy airmasses that usually start arriving by mid to late June....May and the first week of June generally aren't bad, but then there's a noticeable spike in the heat, and it soon becomes brutal. We have AC in the bedrooms but I generally try to restrain my usage as I'm not a fan of the unnatural clammy cold those wall units produce, seems unhealthy. But I remember that we had already used our AC more by June 1st last summer (when I left for Montana) than we did all of Summer 2009....I only had it on maybe 5 nights the entire summer that year, what a relief with most nights getting into the 50s.

Summer in Montana is the exact opposite, super dry during heat waves with very crisp nights. You can still make the 40s after hitting mid-upper 80s during the day. We had persistent troughing in Western Montana for June/July, so nights were often in the upper 30s/low 40s which occasionally necessitated the heater going on. The high on June 16th was 39F as a strong low pressure tracked through eastern Montana, getting down to about 990mb...it was mostly rain with a few mangled flakes mixing in overnight where I was at 4600', but the higher peaks in Glacier National Park got blasted with snow. I went hiking that day, here's some pictures of the storm:

[HoarfrostHubb]

38.3F/38F damn boring stretch of wx

Where is Ray? And Wiz? And Jerry?

[Weather Girl 22]

Nice pictures above^ .

A cool light rain here now. Very raw and the temperature is 39.

[Ice Warrior commander]

This is miserable, boring, dreary, dark, cool, raw, dank and Dismal weather.. No Ice,, No Snow.. however, 38.5F and light RA/DZ and FG. Fog glides over the cold and snowless landscape. tree buds struggle , yet, no Ice or snow to frolick in. Ugh..

[weatherMA]

I hate black flies...they are really bad at our vacation home in the Poconos, so I just refuse to go there in May. I worked on an organic farm in Central Quebec for a few weeks in late May 2006, and the flies/mosquitoes were the worse I had ever seen in that northern clime up near Chicoutimi. We burned fires of dirty brush to keep the air smoky and the flies away, but it was basically in vain as we were all eaten alive...we went swimming in the river on the few afternoons that got into the upper 70s, despite the incredibly cold water rushing out of the still snow-covered mountains, and the clear waters of the Saguenay were such a relief to my bitten body. Beautiful place but awful flies; however, as the owner said, "Si tu veux la vie sauvage, tu dois faire des sacrifices." ("If you want to live the wild/natural life, you must make sacrifices")...so true.

This is the one thing I hate about NYC summers: even the northern suburbs, which are fairly leafy, are influenced by UHI and cool off slowly. Given the generally humid climate of the Northeast, combined with the heat island effect, it's just brutal here in the summer months. The average low in mid July is 66F in Dobbs, and I consider that to be much too high. I can remember one night in the generally warm 2006 Summer when I was sitting out with a friend on his roof at 4am having a smoke, and the thermometer out there still read nearly 85F, this in the wee hours! I loathe the extremely muggy airmasses that usually start arriving by mid to late June....May and the first week of June generally aren't bad, but then there's a noticeable spike in the heat, and it soon becomes brutal. We have AC in the bedrooms but I generally try to restrain my usage as I'm not a fan of the unnatural clammy cold those wall units produce, seems unhealthy. But I remember that we had already used our AC more by June 1st last summer (when I left for Montana) than we did all of Summer 2009....I only had it on maybe 5 nights the entire summer that year, what a relief with most nights getting into the 50s.

Summer in Montana is the exact opposite, super dry during heat waves with very crisp nights. You can still make the 40s after hitting mid-upper 80s during the day. We had persistent troughing in Western Montana for June/July, so nights were often in the upper 30s/low 40s which occasionally necessitated the heater going on. The high on June 16th was 39F as a strong low pressure tracked through eastern Montana, getting down to about 990mb...it was mostly rain with a few mangled flakes mixing in overnight where I was at 4600', but the higher peaks in Glacier National Park got blasted with snow. I went hiking that day, here's some pictures of the storm:

Love that. Just like when I stayed in Colorado in Cabins last summer, 80s during the day, down to 40F by morning. You would go to bed and it would be warm in the cabins so you would fall asleep with the windows open...then wake up freezing.

[cheetah440]

LOL, I'm the only long hair. Most of the guys look like Marines, some were. I think if you came at them with clippers they'd probably laugh then hold you upside down by your ankles and shake you until you cried for Mama.

This place turns into PR after the snow melts. I like it.

[weatherMA]

Channel 7 who originally had 60s and 70s sun/mon has now dropped to low 50s and drizzle...yay!

[HoarfrostHubb]

Channel 7 who originally had 60s and 70s sun/mon has now dropped to low 50s and drizzle...yay!

The "nice" (warm) weather can wait until late June for all I care.

2009 was perfect, other than the end of April.

[Ice Warrior commander]

The "nice" (warm) weather can wait until late June for all I care.

2009 was perfect, other than the end of April.

Oh, nice.. No long stretch of High TD days and perfect temp's that year (summer). Everyone was complaining it was too cool, especially at the beaches.

[nzucker]

Oh, nice.. No long stretch of High TD days and perfect temp's that year (summer). Everyone was complaining it was too cool, especially at the beaches.

2009 sucked, 20" rain here, ruined my garden....the lush scenery was pretty but too much rain.

[Ice Warrior commander]

2009 sucked, 20" rain here, ruined my garden....the lush scenery was pretty but too much rain.

Sorry about your garden in all that rain. The landscape was Plush that whole summer though, like you pointed out. However, absent were the Torrid High TD days here and 60's/ 70's for high temps..

This spring weather is no fun though, like Tip would agree with that. A nice SNE high elevation Heavy Snow would make this worth it .. JMHO.

[weatherMA]

The "nice" (warm) weather can wait until late June for all I care.

2009 was perfect, other than the end of April.

THIS.

June 21st it can begin.

[nzucker]

Sorry about your garden in all that rain. The landscape was Plush that whole summer though, like you pointed out. However, absent were the Torrid High TD days here and 60's/ 70's for high temps..

This spring weather is no fun though, like Tip would agree with that. A nice SNE high elevation Heavy Snow would make this worth it .. JMHO.

I still managed to get some veggies from my garden, but only had like 75 tomatoes from 10 plants compared to nearly 200 tomatoes from 6 plants in 2008. The cold/rainy weather caused an awful blight that devastated the Northeast's tomato crop; I was really pissed since I had some great heirloom varieties that got wiped. Peas did well though.

I like summers that are in the middle, like 2008. We had a big heat wave that June, July had some interesting severe weather events including a prolonged hailstorm here in Westchester, and then August was nice and cool, refreshing. 2008 was also on the rainy side but wasn't constant the way that 2009 was. Last summer would have been much too warm for me, thank heavens I was in Montana.

[Logan11]

34F with this -RN now. If we keep slipping this could end up freezing. LOL It certainly is raw outside.

[Clinch Leatherwood]

This wx sucks. It's not been a nice week here.

[ski MRG]

36/35, I usually ski on my B-day, skipping it this year. Blech.

[CoastalWx]

Well AWT, best storms to our north and northwest. Was hoping we could snake that line further se, but oh well.