Regional Forums have Stolen the Jazz from American Weather

[VAwxman]

You mean like the ENSO type threads? There was a post on that yesterday.

I will say, HM has been scarce lately, don't know if that is seasonal or related to the end of Eastern. I think of HM when I think of long range stuff and discussions I can't quite follow, on the GLAAM and mountain torques and all that.

I hope he is back in time for tropical season...

HM is a good example. I found some good pattern type posts of his that normally would have been on the main board buried in a Philly thread.

[VAwxman]

The bottom line is that most people on this forum are primarily interested in weather ITBY

^^^ This... which is why I made sure to mention I'm in a minority

[WinterWxLuvr]

subforums have definitely hurt some things.

Agree. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I did like it better the other way. Seemed to work just fine last year.

[Ian]

^^^ This... which is why I made sure to mention I'm in a minority

I would say there are a number who are mainly interested in their own backyards, perhaps a majority. But the subforums have made that worse. There really is no going back, and there is no reason to per se, but there could be other measured ways of bringing back activity into a forum where people can discuss despite regional differences. Of course the tropical guys are going to say there is no issue as they now have free reign of this forum once the season heats up.

I would like to hear more opinions on the state of things.

[skierinvermont]

my opinion is subforums have been great for breaking up the regional obs/disco and other topics into more manageable groupings.. however there is less traffic in the main forum which I think may be why some of the great long-term disco that used to go on is a little more sparce lately... there's still some good posts from some of the good LR mets but not as many. Maybe due to the perception that fewer people are reading? Or fewer questions/discussions are breaking out because of the less traffic?

Maybe it would be good to actively encourage all the long range discussion to occur in the general forum.

[RodneyS]

Agreed. There are some folks like myself (granted I may be in a stark minority) that like to discuss the big picture more rather than small regional stuff. We have a handful who still do that here on the main board, but it seems like most keep even that in the subforum superthreads, making meaningful stuff harder to find.

I'm not advocating changing back to the old way. I don't post as much as I used to anyhow, but agree subforums, while helping in some ways, have hurt in others.

As a relative newcomer here, I agree. For example, my first thread was this one, and I posted it here, in the main forum -- http://www.americanw...-washington-dc/ . In the opening post, I specifically inquired: "Are there other areas where there are significant variations in rainfall on different days only a few days apart?" Despite that, however, the thread was moved to the Mid-Atlantic sub-forum because I was using Washington, DC data. By moving topics that may be of general interest to sub-forums, the audience is diminished. I think sub-forums should be reserved strictly for narrow topics, such as "How much snow did you get?", rather than topics that (at least arguably) may be of general interest.

[Isotherm]

Maybe it would be good to actively encourage all the long range discussion to occur in the general forum.

This is what I miss the most, and maybe there's some way we can bring that back.

Of course virtually everyone is most interested ITBY weather, but I'm sure many are also interested in what's going on globally, large scale patterns, long range potentials, etc. I find that all my posts about LR (except my winter outlook thread) are now either in the NYC or PHL forums rather than in a thread on the main forum, and this is probably the case with most others. There's a total lack of MR/LR thoughts by members and meteorologists on the main page b/c all of those posts are confined to that person's particular regional forum now. The sub forums have been great in breaking up the huge superthreads for storms in the cold season; it's much easier to navigate. But on the downside, the weather "forecasting" aspect has somewhat been lost on the main forum, as all those forecasts (whether it be for a storm, or down the road) are within the smaller forums. Basically for someone that's viewing AmericanWx, they need to dig a lot more to find the great member/meteorologist posts regarding upcoming storms and patterns, whereas much of that used to be plainly visible.

I have no problem keeping the subforums, they're great for regional observation/discussion/forecasting, but it'd be nice if there were more threads made regarding the global pattern in the MR/LR on the main page. I miss that discussion (i.e., winter, nao, enso, mjo, solar, among all other kinds of excellent, informative threads). There are a handful of posters I loved reading all the time on the main forum which I rarely see anymore (this could be due to them staying in their own subforum or mayeb they just cut their posts way back).

[k***]

the good long range people become energy mets and then they shut up.

[Ed Lizard]

Yeah, even for the fans of snow and ice, a possible snowstorm 7 to 10 days away for someplace in the Northeast could/should have a model thread in the main forums and maybe get locked 3 days before the storm starts, or maybe locked to us regular posters who don't have colored tags.

That reminds me, Donald Sutherland should have an honorary tag of some color.

[Ed Lizard]

HM is a good example. I found some good pattern type posts of his that normally would have been on the main board buried in a Philly thread.

I hope he doesn't mind. I just sent a PM to HM and told him those of us who appreciate long range analysis from an expert miss him. I wouldn't mind seeing more of 'The Great One' from HPC either, actually...

[famartin]

I was against the split into subforums originally. Now that they've been around for almost a year (they started, what, last May? June?), obviously they are here to stay. However, the points raised here, particularly the dilution of mets, are valid. When Philly was split off from NYC, I tended to stay in Philly... though in the last week I've ventured more into NYC (for better or for worse ). But I hadn't visited the main site here for days, maybe a week or more, until today when I saw this thread.

Plus, there's a lot less comraderie between members from different regions now, I think. Though I guess there's a lot less bickering between regions too, unless posters take the time to go invade

I wonder if allowing subforums was Marcus' idea of weakening the fanbase and membership of Eastern in order to make it easier for him to shut it down...

[HurricaneJosh]

I would say there are a number who are mainly interested in their own backyards, perhaps a majority. But the subforums have made that worse. There really is no going back, and there is no reason to per se, but there could be other measured ways of bringing back activity into a forum where people can discuss despite regional differences. Of course the tropical guys are going to say there is no issue as they now have free reign of this forum once the season heats up.

I would like to hear more opinions on the state of things.

We do like it that way it is now, for the reason you cite. But we would also be happy with a tropical subforum. I think we've always been open to different possibilities. The only thing we don't want is having to wade through 1,000 threads about a 2-inch snow event in MD to find our content. That makes no sense. I know we're not exactly the top priority around here, but I think you can understand where we're coming from.

[gil888]

No tropical subforum! Further diluting the traffic is a very bad idea by putting all of the tropical peeps in one place. One of the reasons I don't post on here as much as I could is because the medium and long range stuff is in scattered locations. If something concerns the next few days, the regional subforum is a perfect place. But if you are talking about a storm a week away, it belongs in the main forum. At that time frame, you won't have a clue whether the peak effects will be in New England or the Mid-Atlantic anyways, and that thread would generate interest from multiple groups.

[HurricaneJosh]

No tropical subforum! Further diluting the traffic is a very bad idea by putting all of the tropical peeps in one place. One of the reasons I don't post on here as much as I could is because the medium and long range stuff is in scattered locations. If something concerns the next few days, the regional subforum is a perfect place. But if you are talking about a storm a week away, it belongs in the main forum. At that time frame, you won't have a clue whether the peak effects will be in New England or the Mid-Atlantic anyways, and that thread would generate interest from multiple groups.

I suggested the tropical subforum as an alternative to the regional subforums-- not in addition to them. Clearly, one or the other is needed-- but not both.

P.S. The regional subforums have been great for tropical discussions. With a given cyclone, the more IMBY-type chatter is now separated from the main discussion-- which is perfect, because what the core tropical dudes want to talk about is very different than what the casual observer in MD or CT (who perceives a threat to their region two weeks out) wants to talk about. These are actually very different user groups with completely different interests. Yes, they're all talking about Hurricane X, but beyond that, there are really no commonalities.

[k***]

I suggested the tropical subforum as an alternative to the regional subforums-- not in addition to them. Clearly, one or the other is needed-- but not both.

P.S. The regional subforums have been great for tropical discussions. With a given cyclone, the more IMBY-type chatter is now separated from the main discussion-- which is perfect, because what the core tropical dudes want to talk about is very different than what the casual observer in MD or CT (who perceives a threat to their region two weeks out) wants to talk about. These are actually very different user groups with completely different interests. Yes, they're all talking about Hurricane X, but beyond that, there are really no commonalities.

snobby but essentially correct.

[Isotherm]

At that time frame, you won't have a clue whether the peak effects will be in New England or the Mid-Atlantic anyways, and that thread would generate interest from multiple groups.

Agree strongly. Anything D 7 and beyond should be encouraged to post on the main page b/c of that reason.

[Witness Protection Program]

Would it be possible to take the top two threads from each regional forum and pin them in the main site?

How about the opposite? Let the mods/pro mets post 2 to 6+ threads at a time from the national/general/main forum as a sticky at the top of all the regional sections. That might get wider viewing and participation on threads they deem worthy. Give the pro mets the ability to start new threads in the sticky and the mods can upgrade threads by 'civilians' as appropriate.

[Ed Lizard]

Yeah, even for the fans of snow and ice, a possible snowstorm 7 to 10 days away for someplace in the Northeast could/should have a model thread in the main forums and maybe get locked 3 days before the storm starts, or maybe locked to us regular posters who don't have colored tags.

That reminds me, Donald Sutherland should have an honorary tag of some color.

I like my idea.

And I like the idea of threads, maybe even a forum, viewable by us plain folks but only colored taggers, and maybe especially good civilians, could post in.

[WinterWxLuvr]

I would say there are a number who are mainly interested in their own backyards, perhaps a majority. But the subforums have made that worse. There really is no going back, and there is no reason to per se, but there could be other measured ways of bringing back activity into a forum where people can discuss despite regional differences. Of course the tropical guys are going to say there is no issue as they now have free reign of this forum once the season heats up.

I would like to hear more opinions on the state of things.

One suggestion of the top of my head would be to make the regional subforums accessible only through the main forum. Each region subforum would be a thread which, when clicked, would lead to the desired subforum, instead of a thread of posts like a normal thread does. This way, hot topics, like developing storm possibilities, winter, severe, and tropical could have a dedicated thread, with obs/specific regional disco and topics relegated to the regional subforum (thread). I really missed the model/storm discos where everybody was involved, especially the mets.

[isohume]

I view the wx side the same way as OT and it works for me.

There is the main forum where various general topics are chewed on by whomever wishes to engage. Then there are the specialized sub-forums where more jazzy discussion and in-depth information can be gleaned from the political, science and sports experts there. It would be confusing, and odd really, if the structures were wholly different between these two forums.

As far as pinning threads board-wide for a heads up to all...I say pin the threads which are experiencing personal meltdowns and/or dysfunctional trolling. We could all use a few laughs now and then.

[flwxwatcher45]

How about the opposite? Let the mods/pro mets post 2 to 6+ threads at a time from the national/general/main forum as a sticky at the top of all the regional sections. That might get wider viewing and participation on threads they deem worthy. Give the pro mets the ability to start new threads in the sticky and the mods can upgrade threads by 'civilians' as appropriate.

That's a good idea.

[Cyclonicjunkie]

I agree with the OP, the main forum is lacking. I used to be able to go to the main forum to read about a major wx event such as the upcoming severe outbreak.

Now I will have to dig thru TWO, possibly THREE regional subforums to read all the action.

[HurricaneJosh]

Despite the fact that AmericanWx is a very IMBY-type forum, it's also true that people have interests in specific types of wx. If the forum were organized by wx type-- winter, severe, tropical-- a lot of these complaints about having to go to several places to read about one event would evaporate. Winter folks could just go to the winter forum to read about the big winter storm brewing.

But this organization would aggravate regional tensions-- for example, the hostility/competition between Mid-Atlantic icep*ssies and SNE icep*ssies-- and of course Tropical Dudes would be mired in OMG1938Isabel!!1!! sludge.

Bottom line is that there's no perfect way to slice it-- which brings us back to the current arrangement. It's really not bad.

[famartin]

One suggestion of the top of my head would be to make the regional subforums accessible only through the main forum. Each region subforum would be a thread which, when clicked, would lead to the desired subforum, instead of a thread of posts like a normal thread does.

Actually I think this is a great idea.

Of course, some people might just bookmark their own subforum and bypass it, but it would still help.

[gil888]

I suggested the tropical subforum as an alternative to the regional subforums-- not in addition to them. Clearly, one or the other is needed-- but not both.

P.S. The regional subforums have been great for tropical discussions. With a given cyclone, the more IMBY-type chatter is now separated from the main discussion-- which is perfect, because what the core tropical dudes want to talk about is very different than what the casual observer in MD or CT (who perceives a threat to their region two weeks out) wants to talk about. These are actually very different user groups with completely different interests. Yes, they're all talking about Hurricane X, but beyond that, there are really no commonalities.

Yeah but rainstorm still posts a lot in the tropical forum, so clearly something is broken Anytime there is a big storm, you always have to dig through the weeds to find the good stuff, but that's to be expected I guess.

Maybe putting the regional forums through the main is a good idea, but I don't think people want to be going to multiple places for discussion on a storm. I would love it if the big picture was in the main forum, with breakdowns in the regionals, but that sure hasn't happened yet....

[WxLover]

It was organized chaos,more like a party atmosphere, especially at a big event. It was fun.

[tacoman25]

This is what I miss the most, and maybe there's some way we can bring that back.

Of course virtually everyone is most interested ITBY weather, but I'm sure many are also interested in what's going on globally, large scale patterns, long range potentials, etc. I find that all my posts about LR (except my winter outlook thread) are now either in the NYC or PHL forums rather than in a thread on the main forum, and this is probably the case with most others. There's a total lack of MR/LR thoughts by members and meteorologists on the main page b/c all of those posts are confined to that person's particular regional forum now. The sub forums have been great in breaking up the huge superthreads for storms in the cold season; it's much easier to navigate. But on the downside, the weather "forecasting" aspect has somewhat been lost on the main forum, as all those forecasts (whether it be for a storm, or down the road) are within the smaller forums. Basically for someone that's viewing AmericanWx, they need to dig a lot more to find the great member/meteorologist posts regarding upcoming storms and patterns, whereas much of that used to be plainly visible.

I have no problem keeping the subforums, they're great for regional observation/discussion/forecasting, but it'd be nice if there were more threads made regarding the global pattern in the MR/LR on the main page. I miss that discussion (i.e., winter, nao, enso, mjo, solar, among all other kinds of excellent, informative threads). There are a handful of posters I loved reading all the time on the main forum which I rarely see anymore (this could be due to them staying in their own subforum or mayeb they just cut their posts way back).

Totally agree.

As the odd western poster, I used to find plenty to talk about in the main forum, because lots of people from all over would be posting there and there was lots of LR discussion that applied to just about everyone. Now, while there is still not a lot of discussion of my region's weather in the west/central sub-forum, there is a lot less content to bring me to the main forum.

As others have noted, the sub-forums are great for individual storms and regional banter. But they really have diluted the amount of quality, general weather posts and LR stuff that used to generate excellent discussion with the old forum.

[Amped]

I guess this in now a Blues board. Groovy.

[Organizing Low]

it depends

the Tulip Trouncer time-series was one of the best of all time, and it was missed by the majority.

should have been pinned not only on the main forum, but also in each subforum, all 6 parts.

[RU848789]

I'm not suggesting single threads for main events. I'm suggesting pinning the top two threads from each region on the main page, and then when you click on the thread to read or post, it takes you to the regional forum. Right now, the robust activity is mainly within the regional forums, which makes it mostly hidden unless you go into the regionals themselves.

Sure, hurricane season brings people to the main board, but right now, I'd bet that most members go straight to their region. Threads like the Ask a Pro Met and the Medium Range Thread just don't get the eyeballs on them. It's like we're living in a quiet house. All the activity and buzz that used to be centered around the kitchen has now gone into closed door rooms.

Apache - I've also made a post or two lamenting the death of storm-wide threads and while I like being able to dive into the regional threads for regional discussion, I almost never come to the main board any more - the sense of a single meteorological "community" sharing in discussion about a single storm has evaporated. I think your idea has great merit, although I'd make two minor modifications: i) I wouldn't "pin" the regional threads to the top of the main board - I'd simply link them and the busiest ones would remain near the top because of activity (or fall if inactive, i.e., when the threat fades or the storm is over), and ii) I'd want the act of clicking on either of the two most active regional threads (presumbaly the discussion thread and the obs thread) to bring the actual thread up, not bring me to the forum, where I'd need to click again. Call me lazy, but I hate extra clicks, which is why I hate the split of the Philly/NYC forums - living in Central Jersey, I now have to click many more times to see multiple threads in different forums. Adding 2 threads per regional forum would really only end up adding 8-10 threads to the main page, as it's not often that more than 4-5 regions are going wild before a specific storm (usually it's going to miss someone in the NE, which is still the main source of posters, overall).

I guess I'm not writing very clearly. I have not stated that the subforums should be abolished in favor of the main site. I like the subforums quite a bit. It's that they pull eyes off the main site. I miss the days of reading big picture threads, and can't remember the last time I saw some of the big names debate pattern changes, teleconnections, and storms two weeks ahead in the main site. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think it's because people are posting mainly in the subforums..

No, you've clearly stated your idea several times. No offense intended to the half dozen or so posters who gave you a hard time, but these folks would've received "F's" if we were grading them on reading comprehension - you never said anything at all about abolishing subforums

Totally agree that the regional subforums have taken away the thunder from the main forum, especially in the winter. I'd prefer only topics that are very regionally specific in there. Approaching snowstorms-- to have a regional discussion in each forum is exhausting. The weather expertise is diluted and hard to find. I prefer the giant thread approach for all of the approaching storms, winter and summer!

Completely agree. The dilution of meterological talent has been significant. I understand that mega-threads can become very unwieldy, but we've lost that great element of overall storm analysis and discussion, where pros from multiple regions would discuss their regions, but also speculate on the overall evolution of the storm, both with respect to what that meant to their region and with respect to what that meant for the overall event and the synoptic setup/pattern. I used to love seeing guys like Vaxman, ray, usedtobe, tip, HM, orh, earthlight and many others having rich discussions about an entire event - it was not only interesting, but much more informative about the overall meteorology than just reading about MBY.

I would say there are a number who are mainly interested in their own backyards, perhaps a majority. But the subforums have made that worse. There really is no going back, and there is no reason to per se, but there could be other measured ways of bringing back activity into a forum where people can discuss despite regional differences. Of course the tropical guys are going to say there is no issue as they now have free reign of this forum once the season heats up.

I would like to hear more opinions on the state of things.

Well here's one more thought, in addition to the ones above. I know it's been discussed before, but I still love the idea of at least one thread per storm that only allows posts by pros, admins and selected "civilians" (as deemed worthy by the pros, admins or some mystical meteorological council that sits around a big giant table in a futuristic building in the clouds). I guarantee those would be the richest, most educational threads we'd ever see. Has this ever even been tried?