Pet Peeve: "North and West of 287"

[IsentropicLift]

More often than not, as was the case earlier this week, It was snowing where I work in Ramsey, ontop of a hill. Once I got on 17 it was a rain snow mix and pretty much stayed mostly rain till I got to the 208/287 split. Oakland always seems to be the transition zone where yet again it quickly changed over to all snow. I'm sure if I had continued north on 17 in NY it would have quickly changed to snow there as well.

To me, the better dividing line would be north and west of the Rt 23/287 intersection or north and west of the 287/17 intersection.

[Diego]

Lived either in the North Bronx and/or Yonkers for 30 some odd years and this does appear about right. Too much topography to catch every nook and cranny in that map. Even though we only lived in Yorktown for three years, on many occasions I remember seeing the difference going from the Croton Harmon Station (near sea level) to our home at about 600 feet. Before this decade, the generic expression was rain changed to snow upon passing north of the Hawthorne Interchange.

Growing up in the 1960s in Glen Cove on the North Shore of Nassau County, I got the impression that often with coastal systems with borderline boundary layer temps., a rather sharp and dramatic rain/snow line oriented in a wsw to ene direction would set up on a line ranging from northern Riverdale to Port Chester on the south end and from the Tappen Zee Bridge to Hawthorne to Armonk on the northern end. In the majority of these situations, the precip. type would be pure rain at my location to the south of this line as well as the remainder of LI and all of NYC, except possibly at Van Cortlandt Park or Wave Hill (lol).

My primitive assessment (without understanding or taking into account the temps between 750 and 950), was that this was a result of the relationship between the surface location and the upstream trajectory of the surface flow, with more pronounced maritime modifications taking place to the south of this line, at those points that were more downwind of LI Sound, and the Atantic lying to the east of Long Island.

[jconsor]

I disagree that urban and/or coastal parts of far southern Westchester (e.g. places like Yonkers, Mount Vernon,New Rochelle, Mamaroneck, Rye, Port Chester) average more snow than Upton and much of the North Shore of LI, and I have some data to back it up. The 1949-2000 snowfall average for White Plains airport (located in central Westchester at 397 feet elevation) is 31.9". The 1949-2000 average for Dobbs Ferry is 35.3".

However, neither White Plains nor Dobbs Ferry is representative of the climate of the southernmost corner of Westchester County, which is more influenced by the NYC heat island and proximity to LI Sound. For instance, Dobbs Ferry is about 12 miles NW of Pelham Manor, which is in the far SE corner of Westchester County, and about 6 miles north of Yonkers (in the far SW corner of Westchester County).

The only co-op in northeastern NJ with a long-term record that has a latitude similar to the southern third of Westchester is Midland Park, NJ. Its latitude is about halfway between Dobbs Ferry and Yonkers, and it's about 10 miles west of Yonkers. Midland Park's elevation is 200 ft. The southernmost corner of Westchester (south of Dobbs Ferry to the Bronx border) ranges in elevation from sea level near the coast to about 300 ft in some hills.

Since there are several missing months of data in a few years for Midland Park, we can only use years for which there is a complete snowfall record for the purposes of comparison. Those years are 1947-49, 1952-55, 1958, 1961, 1965-67, 1969, 1972-1974, 1977-1991, and 1995-2002. (Note, when I mention 1947, it means the 1947-48 snow season). The average snowfall for those 39 winters in Midland Park is 27.6". The average snowfall for those winters at Upton, Long Island is... drumroll... 29.0".

Nope, have to basically agree with NZ's response. Even the snowiest spots on L.I. (the hilly towns on the North Shore) average at best 32 - 33 inches per year. Most of southern Westchester averages at least 35"...most of northern Westchester at least 40"...with the higher spots closer to 45". And far eastern L.I. (the Twin Forks) generally average just 24" - 28" per year.

The absolute snowiest spot on Long Island may be the summit of Jaynes Hill in Huntington (elevation 401 feet). It is in West Hills County Park and I used to take measurements up there. Incomplete evidence suggets the average is 35" right at the top...

The absolute snowiest spot on Long Island might be a fraction snowier than the absolute least snowiest spot in Westchester...but that's about it.

As I mentioned before...over the last 11 years, parts of central L.I. have been on an unreal run...averaging around 43" per year during the period....probably more than parts of Westchester and parts of N. Jersey as well. However this is not reflective of the long term pattern...as Westchester is generally the snowier locale over the long haul.

[RU848789]

For awhile, I used to hear some pros in the media say X (e.g., the heavier snow) will occur "north and west of the intersection of 287 and 80." This is perfectly fine, as that's N/W of a particular point. However, recently I've heard numerous pros talking about X occurring "north and west of 287" (or even just "north of 287"). 287 is a very convoluted interstate beltway that runs from about Edison, NJ (a mile from my house) westward to Somerville, then NNE-ward to about Parsippany (where it hits 80) and then Mahwah, and then it goes ESE across the Hudson and ends past White Plains. Saying north and west of 287 is meaningless if you don't pick a specific point. Technically, I'm north and west of the intersection of 287 and the NJ TPK, by about a mile. I know they mean north and west of 287/80 (or sometimes simply north of 287, which means north of the northernmost part of 287 in the Hudson Valley), but I'm sure there are casual listeners living in Central Jersey who think they're talking about near them. This is almost as bad as using the unqualified "inland from NYC" which could mean Newark, Dover or Chicago. Educated listeners know that that usually means Dover, roughly, but I'm sure there are people in Fort Lee thinking they're "inland of NYC." I know it takes a few extra seconds to clarify the information being transmitted, but c'mon, at least stop with the nonsensical geography. Rant over.

No problem with the thread being hijacked, as it's a pretty interesting discussion. However, I have to ask - this doesn't bug anyone else? A few folks said they thought it was fine - I can't actually believe anyone who understands the concept thinking it's fine. It's completely meaningless to say "north and west of 287" or any other non-specific, broad location for that matter. I'm sure most of you don't think of Edison, Middlesex or Plainfield as being N/W of 287, yet they are N/W of the Middlesex County portion of 287. It's simply lazy reporting, especially when they almost always intend to mean N/W of the intersection of 287 and 80.

[Jersey Devil]

287 is an awesome reference point for Bergen County. I live just NW of 287 in the higher terrain of Bergen. The line is usually a good reference point when determining snowfall, especially in marginal events. Take yesterday for example. I had 3 inches of snow, if you crossed 287 into the next town over, Wyckoff, snow was minimal, and one more town over (Hawthorne) there was no snow practically. For Bergen 287 is a good point because areas west of it average over 500ft, which in situations like yesterday can make all the difference. I average about 40-45 inches of snow a year, areas to my east see significantly less. It is a big dividing line, at least for Bergen.

Also as you come up 208 it starts to change, road freezes up as you hit the hill between Wyckoff and Franklin Lakes. Just south of 287.

Not sure how 287 is as a dividing line further south, but in this area it is usually a pretty good marker.

[RU848789]

287 is an awesome reference point for Bergen County. I live just NW of 287 in the higher terrain of Bergen. The line is usually a good reference point when determining snowfall, especially in marginal events. Take yesterday for example. I had 3 inches of snow, if you crossed 287 into the next town over, Wyckoff, snow was minimal, and one more town over (Hawthorne) there was no snow practically. For Bergen 287 is a good point because areas west of it average over 500ft, which in situations like yesterday can make all the difference. I average about 40-45 inches of snow a year, areas to my east see significantly less. It is a big dividing line, at least for Bergen.

Perfect case in point of the ridiculousness of saying someone lives NW of 287, without specifying a point on 287. I assume you realize that you're also SW of 287 (the part in Rockland County), NE of 287 (most of 287 from Parsippany to Somerville), and then N of 287 (relative to Edison).

[tornadojay]

I literally live 1/2 mile south of 287 in Rockland..... I think the 287 piece in Jersey works pretty well, because you start getting pretty hilly west of there, especially if you head west on route 23... In Rockland county, there isn't really much change in topography headed north of 287... really not until you get into the Suffern area, where you start getting into the Ramapo moutains and harriman state park. Most of Rockland county doesn't have too many high elevations until you head to it's northern and western fringes, especially up by Bear Mountain and Route 6.

[tornadojay]

but then again, I see the problematic issue with 287 hooking around to the east down to the NJ Turnpike... If you say it lazily, it could be confusing, especially for the southern portion of 287 in NJ.. It really should only apply to a portion of that interstate. You might need to say west of 287 and north of 80 in NJ.

[Stormlover74]

It doesn't bother me because I understand what they mean when they say N&W of 287 even though many people don't. Essentially it only applies if you are North of I-78, south of that where 287 runs southeast it wouldn't make sense. For me its better to use roads than just saying vague terms like 'inland' or 'north and west'. It only seems like in the last 10 years they've been saying north of the tappan zee bridge or west of the parkway etc. and for me its a good benchmark even if not exact.

No problem with the thread being hijacked, as it's a pretty interesting discussion. However, I have to ask - this doesn't bug anyone else? A few folks said they thought it was fine - I can't actually believe anyone who understands the concept thinking it's fine. It's completely meaningless to say "north and west of 287" or any other non-specific, broad location for that matter. I'm sure most of you don't think of Edison, Middlesex or Plainfield as being N/W of 287, yet they are N/W of the Middlesex County portion of 287. It's simply lazy reporting, especially when they almost always intend to mean N/W of the intersection of 287 and 80.

[RU848789]

but then again, I see the problematic issue with 287 hooking around to the east down to the NJ Turnpike... If you say it lazily, it could be confusing, especially for the southern portion of 287 in NJ.. It really should only apply to a portion of that interstate. You might need to say west of 287 and north of 80 in NJ.

thanks Jay - saved me from opening up a can of internet whoop-ass on you for your post above this one, lol...I know I'm being nitpicky, but I just like professionals to be unambiguously accurate when they do their forecasts on TV and radio - confusion helps nobody.

[Stormlover74]

Now if you want a true pet peeve of mine its ambiguously worded forecasts. Having a big snowflake on the 5 day forecast and not so much as addressing it. a NWS forecast that just says Rain, not heavy, light, afternoon, intermittent, nothing. Just rain. It doesn't need to be 7 sentences long but give me a few details please.

thanks Jay - saved me from opening up a can of internet whoop-ass on you for your post above this one, lol...I know I'm being nitpicky, but I just like professionals to be unambiguously accurate when they do their forecasts on TV and radio - confusion helps nobody.

[nzucker]

I'm about 1000 feet north of the border into Putnam and since I moved into this house in '96 my average is closer to 60" than 50". Elevation helps and my E/NE exposure also helps me to keep snowing a bit after the main precip body has pulled through. I drive up the Sprain/Taconic everyday and the breaks are Scarsdale/Bronxville then again as you go over 287 and once more as you pass 202 in Yorktown. Each of these zones has a distinctly different general weather pattern.

Yeah I'd love to move up to that area soon, I adore the Hudson Valley but want to get away from the city a bit more and grab some more elevation.

[snywx]

I literally live 1/2 mile south of 287 in Rockland..... I think the 287 piece in Jersey works pretty well, because you start getting pretty hilly west of there, especially if you head west on route 23... In Rockland county, there isn't really much change in topography headed north of 287... really not until you get into the Suffern area, where you start getting into the Ramapo moutains and harriman state park. Most of Rockland county doesn't have too many high elevations until you head to it's northern and western fringes, especially up by Bear Mountain and Route 6.

If your headed north on the thruway its almost automatic during marginal events where you start to see the transition around Spring Valley.. Transition is usually complete between Tuxedo & Harriman. The area around the Hudson Highlands ( Harriman-Monroe-Woodbury) has a nice little microclimate. I lived in Highland Mills (Woodbury) for 10 yrs and was amazed at the amounts we were receiving while places you would think are more favorable end up with less. If you chat with a few ppl from that area they would tell you the same thing.

[snywx]

I'm not crazy for the snowfall map...southern Westchester, southern Rockland, southern Fairfield, and much of Bergen County average more than 25 - 30 inches of snow per year...maybe up to 10" more...especially in Rockland County.

To me lower Rockland is an absolute snowhole.. Amounts dramatically increase as you head up the palisades toward Stony Point & into Harriman State Park.

[nzucker]

If your headed north on the thruway its almost automatic during marginal events where you start to see the transition around Spring Valley.. Transition is usually complete between Tuxedo & Harriman. The area around the Hudson Highlands ( Harriman-Monroe-Woodbury) has a nice little microclimate. I lived in Highland Mills (Woodbury) for 10 yrs and was amazed at the amounts we were receiving while places you would think are more favorable end up with less. If you chat with a few ppl from that area they would tell you the same thing.

Yeah I think Harriman had over 30" in the Snowicane, got hammered.

The Hudson Highlands reach a maximum elevation of 1610' at South Beacon Mountain, and I bet they average well over 50" in those areas. There's such a sharp gradient as you move away from the river, and you can even see it in autumn where trees in interior Putnam and Westchester have already changed color while those along the banks of the Hudson retain their green the longest with the warm waters of the river preventing radiational cooling on fall evenings. There are some places along the Taconic Parkway that seem to change color very early in late September/early October; there's quite a ridge in Putnam County with the maximum elevation around 1300', and it makes a huge difference. I once had to drive up there after a marginal winter storm, and it was quite treacherous for those couple of miles while the rest of the road remained clear, this was sometime during December 2007 I believe.

BTW I still have more snow than you.

[snywx]

I'm about 1000 feet north of the border into Putnam and since I moved into this house in '96 my average is closer to 60" than 50". Elevation helps and my E/NE exposure also helps me to keep snowing a bit after the main precip body has pulled through. I drive up the Sprain/Taconic everyday and the breaks are Scarsdale/Bronxville then again as you go over 287 and once more as you pass 202 in Yorktown. Each of these zones has a distinctly different general weather pattern.

Curious to know what the Fahnestock State Park avg is.. Some good elevation in those parts with a E/NE exposure as well. Any idea?

[snywx]

Yeah I think Harriman had over 30" in the Snowicane, got hammered.

The Hudson Highlands reach a maximum elevation of 1610' at South Beacon Mountain, and I bet they average well over 50" in those areas. There's such a sharp gradient as you move away from the river, and you can even see it in autumn where trees in interior Putnam and Westchester have already changed color while those along the banks of the Hudson retain their green the longest with the warm waters of the river preventing radiational cooling on fall evenings. There are some places along the Taconic Parkway that seem to change color very early in late September/early October; there's quite a ridge in Putnam County with the maximum elevation around 1300', and it makes a huge difference. I once had to drive up there after a marginal winter storm, and it was quite treacherous for those couple of miles while the rest of the road remained clear, this was sometime during December 2007 I believe.

BTW I still have more snow than you.

lol.. I know craziness Hey some parts of NE PA havent even cracked 50" for the season! ouch..

[nzucker]

To me lower Rockland is an absolute snowhole.. Amounts dramatically increase as you head up the palisades toward Stony Point & into Harriman State Park.

The coast has been cleaning up the last two winters with the -NAO blocking, however. Just to give an example, one of my friends in Canton, NY near the Canadian border measured only 40" snowfall last season whereas Central Park had 53" in 09-10. Northern Maryland, especially the suburbs of BWI, had close to 90" last winter, and northern VA had close to 80". So the normal gradient has been reversed, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it again considering the signs of El Niño emerging now.

I like living down here because I get crushed in the big coastals. Look at your snowfall signature for this year: most of the events have been BS snowfalls...sure, you've managed to get almost as much as I have by receiving more in the marginal events, and I'm sure you've maintained your snowpack longer, but it's much harder to get the 12"+ and 18"+ events when you're in SE NY outside of the mountainous areas like the Catskills. For example, I received 14.5" on 1/12 and 14" on 1/27, whereas you didn't get more than a pedestrian event. This is the classic quandary: do you want to average more snow, or do you want to give up some of that average to get hammered? I lived up in VT for a few years so I understand both sides of the argument...although Middlebury was lucky with 25" in the V-Day 2007 storm and two 20" events last year.

[snywx]

The coast has been cleaning up the last two winters with the -NAO blocking, however. Just to give an example, one of my friends in Canton, NY near the Canadian border measured only 40" snowfall last season whereas Central Park had 53" in 09-10. Northern Maryland, especially the suburbs of BWI, had close to 90" last winter, and northern VA had close to 80". So the normal gradient has been reversed, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it again considering the signs of El Niño emerging now.

I like living down here because I get crushed in the big coastals. Look at your snowfall signature for this year: most of the events have been BS snowfalls...sure, you've managed to get almost as much as I have by receiving more in the marginal events, and I'm sure you've maintained your snowpack longer, but it's much harder to get the 12"+ and 18"+ events when you're in SE NY outside of the mountainous areas like the Catskills. For example, I received 14.5" on 1/12 and 14" on 1/27, whereas you didn't get more than a pedestrian event. This is the classic quandary: do you want to average more snow, or do you want to give up some of that average to get hammered? I lived up in VT for a few years so I understand both sides of the argument...although Middlebury was lucky with 25" in the V-Day 2007 storm and two 20" events last year.

The last 2 yrs arent a good example of how it really is up here. Most of O.C usually cleans up in Coastals as well but with these damn tight a** gradients we have been on the outside looking in. Go back to the PNS from these past blizzards and look at the totals coming out of Monroe/Harriman/Chester/Highland Mills.. BTW... Harriman through Woodbury corridor received 32-36" during the snowicane and back here we received 28"

[nzucker]

To me lower Rockland is an absolute snowhole.. Amounts dramatically increase as you head up the palisades toward Stony Point & into Harriman State Park.

It seems that lower Rockland often does more poorly than here even though one would think they should do better. Many parts of Rockland County changed to rain during the 2/25 Snowicane whereas I stayed all snow on the other side of the Hudson; there was literally a blob of blue on radar over my area in a sea of green. I know Jay mixed a lot during the day when I had already accumulated 10", although it would have been logical that areas further west do better, not sure what happened. Obviously Harriman State Park is an exception with the elevation....another place with good elevation in SE NY is Sterling Forest State Park. This relatively unknown park is one of my favorites....the lake is awesome for swimming in the summer with rocky outcroppings for sunbathing and very clean water, the hiking is rugged as you ascend the ridge and get over 1000' with views towards the other parts of the Hudson Highlands, and it's never crowded. The park is over 21,000 acres.

Curious to know what the Fahnestock State Park avg is.. Some good elevation in those parts with a E/NE exposure as well. Any idea?

I've done a lot of hiking there, both in winter and summer, it's a great spot for snow. If I had to guess, I would say they average 45-50"...

lol.. I know craziness Hey some parts of NE PA havent even cracked 50" for the season! ouch..

Lower elevations of Northern PA and the Southern Tier of NY are a snowhole; they just don't get enough synoptic events and don't see orographic enhancement that the ridges benefit from. Scranton has been in a long-time snow drought, as was Binghamton and Albany until this season. The lack of coastal-huggers like Christmas 2002 has been really detrimental to these places, which aren't far enough north for big totals in SW flow events and aren't close enough to the coast to get hammered in Benchmark Nor'easters. My parents have a vacation home at 1500' in extreme NE PA, Wayne County, average snowfall around 70-75"...it's amazing the gradient between there and Scranton, but there hasn't really been a Poconos winter since 93-94 in my opinion.

[nzucker]

The last 2 yrs arent a good example of how it really is up here. Most of O.C usually cleans up in Coastals as well but with these damn tight a** gradients we have been on the outside looking in. Go back to the PNS from these past blizzards and look at the totals coming out of Monroe/Harriman/Chester/Highland Mills.. BTW... Harriman through Woodbury corridor received 32-36" during the snowicane and back here we received 28"

Here are a few events I want to get your totals from. Can you tell me how much you got in:

February 10, 2010:

December 19, 2009:

March 2, 2009:

December 19, 2008

December 25, 2002:

December 30, 2000:

March 1993 Superstorm, if you remember:

[snywx]

Here are a few events I want to get your totals from. Can you tell me how much you got in:

February 10, 2010:

December 19, 2009:

March 2, 2009:

December 19, 2008

December 25, 2002:

December 30, 2000:

March 1993 Superstorm, if you remember:

February 10, 2010: 9" ( Middletown)

December 19, 2009: 3" ( Middletown)

March 2, 2009: 10.5" ( Highland Mills)

December 19, 2008: 10" ( Highland Mills)

December 25, 2002: 18" ( Highland Mills)

December 30, 2000: Not sure on the exact amount but im pretty sure it was alot.

March 1993 Superstorm, if you remember: Was still living in the Bronx at the time..

[nzucker]

February 10, 2010: 9" ( Middletown)

December 19, 2009: 3" ( Middletown)

March 2, 2009: 10.5" ( Highland Mills)

December 19, 2008: 10" ( Highland Mills)

December 25, 2002: 18" ( Highland Mills)

December 30, 2000: Not sure on the exact amount but im pretty sure it was alot.

March 1993 Superstorm, if you remember: Was still living in the Bronx at the time..

Yes, you've definitely suffered from suppression/confluence the last few years with those razor-thin cutoffs on the NW side of storms. I had 12.5" in 2/10 and 8" in 12/19. We did about equally in the storms in 08-09 but looks like you cleaned up in the XMAS 2002 storm while I dealt with mixing. That was still one of my favorite snowstorms with the banding stalling out over NYC and changing us unexpectedly to heavy snow, picked up 11" in a very short time. My aunt and uncle were driving down from Albany to celebrate with us and had a very hard time making it; the 2-hour trip to Westchester took them over 6 hours as the Capital District picked up 20-30" and my area is very hilly so is difficult to drive around in the snow. They were expecting it to change to rain south of POU but it never happened, to their chagrin. That was one storm where my elevation definitely helped a bit as I know NYC saw way less than I....

We'll see if you can pass me this year; at this point, I just have to hope for the winter to be completely over since any snowfall is going to favor NW elevated areas. That being said, I think both of us have a shot for snow in the 3/30 SW flow event and the 4/2 cut-off if that can make the trip up the coast. 0z GFS starts us with snow on 3/30 and apparently the Euro is farther south at 0z, so might be a tick colder. It would be amazing to receive snow from a SW flow event at this point in the season, but that pool of <-10C 850s is just sitting over us due to the severe -NAO. Supposed to be 18F tomorrow night, unreal for the end of March.

[Guest Pamela]

To me lower Rockland is an absolute snowhole.. Amounts dramatically increase as you head up the palisades toward Stony Point & into Harriman State Park.

I don't know if there is an active cooperative station in Rockland and when the PNS is posted, it seems rare that any huge totals come out of there....

[nzucker]

I don't know if there is an active cooperative station in Rockland and when the PNS is posted, it seems rare that any huge totals come out of there....

I know, it's so weird, right?

Lower Rockland never jackpots. Can we name any storm that they've had the most in the NYC metro?

I can think of many LI jackpots like 12/19/09, 3/2/09, 1/20/05....I can certainly think of North-Central NJ jackpots like 12/30/00 and 12/26/10....NYC 5 Boroughs have had their fair share with 1/27/11, 2/12/06, PDII....Westchester has had a couple like 2/25/10 and 12/19/08. But what about Rockland?

[snywx]

I don't know if there is an active cooperative station in Rockland and when the PNS is posted, it seems rare that any huge totals come out of there....

That area from Nyack/Pearl River/Orangeburg is an absolute snowhole..lol Snow just magically disappears there

[nzucker]

That area from Nyack/Pearl River/Orangeburg is an absolute snowhole..lol Snow just magically disappears there

Those areas have pretty low elevation near the River; as Jay has said, I find Rockland to be slightly less rugged than Westchester until you get farther north on 9W or past the 87/287 split when it begins to ascend into Harriman State Park. The Taxter Ridge in Southern Westchester is a pretty rugged area/park and stays elevated as that arm of hills continues southward towards the Irvington Reservoir and Dobbs Ferry's Juhring Estate Nature Preserve, all protected areas that lie around 350'+. The SW part of Westchester tends to be much more rugged than the SE, which is why I don't completely disagree with arguments that 30-35" could be an accurate snowfall range for places like Mt. Vernon...

I also wonder if Rockland gets some downsloping component on NE winds given the higher elevations in the Hudson Highlands that are frequently in the 1400-1500' range...South Beacon is at 1610' and Storm King is at 1340'...that wind direction wouldn't downslope my area as much since I'm too far south...I definitely believe there's an orographic issue here since Rockland always seems to have lower totals in major Nor'easters throughout the NYC metro, and that's the only major terrain difference that I can think of compared to Westchester.

[tornadojay]

<br />That area from Nyack/Pearl River/Orangeburg is an absolute snowhole..lol Snow just magically disappears there<br />

<br /><br /><br /><br />Yep.. I'm in Nanuet... It is always in a snow hole.. Boxing storm and countless other storms.. Probably west nyack is the worst.. It is in a valley.. At least I have a little bit of elevation

The only exception was maybe Jan 1996... Otherwise it is a disaster

[tornadojay]

<br />I know, it's so weird, right?<br /><br />Lower Rockland never jackpots. Can we name any storm that they've had the most in the NYC metro?<br /><br />I can think of many LI jackpots like 12/19/09, 3/2/09, 1/20/05....I can certainly think of North-Central NJ jackpots like 12/30/00 and 12/26/10....NYC 5 Boroughs have had their fair share with 1/27/11, 2/12/06, PDII....Westchester has had a couple like 2/25/10 and 12/19/08. But what about Rockland?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Never!!! lol

[tornadojay]

<br />I don't know if there is an active cooperative station in Rockland and when the PNS is posted, it seems rare that any huge totals come out of there....<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Well.. Lamont Doherty earth observatory is located in palisades which essentially is at the very southeast tip of new York state.. But I don't think they report so there really isn't any good reporting stations.. I just use my own observations from my PWS and use HPN as model data reference... But what he is saying is true.. I always have lower totals... And 9 times out of 10, NWS predicted accumulations for my zone end up being half of the prediction