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Another winter storm March 28-30?


Hoosier

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lolz at the suppression of the GGEM

It may end up being correct, but I've lost all faith (what little I had to begin with) in that model. It's been very inconsistent this season. It seemed to do better last winter, but that may be just a casual observation. The NAM and the Euro seem to be doing pretty well lately, so I'll lean more in their direction for now. The GFS hasn't been all that good lately IMO.

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If the GFSish solution pans out, it will get the honors for this storm for sniffing it out earliest (especially considering the Euro from yesterday and beyond)

It may end up being correct, but I've lost all faith (what little I had to begin with) in that model. It's been very inconsistent this season. It seemed to do better last winter, but that may be just a casual observation. The NAM and the Euro seem to be doing pretty well lately, so I'll lean more in their direction for now. The GFS hasn't been all that good lately IMO.

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lolz at the suppression of the GGEM

It may end up being correct, but I've lost all faith (what little I had to begin with) in that model. It's been very inconsistent this season. It seemed to do better last winter, but that may be just a casual observation. The NAM and the Euro seem to be doing pretty well lately, so I'll lean more in their direction for now. The GFS hasn't been all that good lately IMO.

For now I would not bother with the CMC--it is showing its weird bias of turbulent wave breakdown/decay as the shortwaves progress the intermountain W.

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your thoughts on this storm?

Looks promising with the recent trends of all globals regarding the breakdown of the blocking. Bigger question is the amplitude and strength of the ejecting S/W. 0Z GFS shows positive feedback with that rather beefy low level theta-e regime--so small amplitude changes will have large changes as a result. Recent trends with models is they have been too amplified/strong with these Pacific cyclones as they depart the intermountain W and eject into the plains. Were I forecasting I wouldn't pull the trigger on anything yet. An amped solution is possible--but the beefy wave the GFS ejects is a bit suspect at this juncture. Another "if" is the leading weaker and low amplitude wave ejecting ahead of the main system. That could throw a wrench into things as well. For now a mix between the 18Z GFS type solution and the 12Z Euro would be a smart solution until seeing the 0Z GEFS/Euro ensemble. CMC I would toss for the aforementioned reasons for now.

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Looks promising with the recent trends of all globals regarding the breakdown of the blocking. Bigger question is the amplitude and strength of the ejecting S/W. 0Z GFS shows positive feedback with that rather beefy low level theta-e regime--so small amplitude changes will have large changes as a result. Recent trends with models is they have been too amplified/strong with these Pacific cyclones as they depart the intermountain W and eject into the plains. Were I forecasting I wouldn't pull the trigger on anything yet. An amped solution is possible--but the beefy wave the GFS ejects is a bit suspect at this juncture. Another "if" is the leading weaker and low amplitude wave ejecting ahead of the main system. That could throw a wrench into things as well. For now a mix between the 18Z GFS type solution and the 12Z Euro would be a smart solution until seeing the 0Z GEFS/Euro ensemble. CMC I would toss for the aforementioned reasons for now.

smart man, i've been slapped in the face enough with the over amplification on the models, i'd go with the weaker solution until all the models converge on a further north solution then i'd still hedge the low track further south.tongue.gif (all seriousness that blocking is of concern, the omega block pattern is going to argue for a further south solution)

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smart man, i've been slapped in the face enough with the over amplification on the models, i'd go with the weaker solution until all the models converge on a further north solution then i'd still hedge the low track further south.tongue.gif (all seriousness that blocking is of concern, the omega block pattern is going to argue for a further south solution)

Well yeah--I should have said the recent trends regarding blocking are positive--but it is still a concern haha. But I agree--a lot of things can squash the potential wrapped beast storm at this juncture. Certainly a realistic threat though--start throwing in self-development/positive feedback and this could be a nail biter type of forecast till the bitter end haha.

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I am talking about the city itself and more about the bigger events. I should have been more specific. Detroit was right on the border (they were expecting mostly sleet and ice) line of that 10 inch storm. Totals of 15-20 were found further west in the plains so detroit wasn't in the bullseye. Also the track of that storm was up in the air (more than most storms this winter) until it happened. As far as the bigger storms (8 inches plus) detroit hasn't gotten close to the bullseye. BY no means is this complaining, but just saying.

Seems like this is getting nitpicky lol. We have not "sideswiped" our way to a nice winter. Detroit was the bullseye area of the region with the Feb 20th event. Also the Feb 5th event, though it wasnt 8+ inches. Detroit saw what, almost 3 feet while Chicago saw 3 inches since the GHD blizzard? If anything, Detroit is in the overall bullseye for moderate snowstorms as I dont think ANY area in our entire region other than metro-Detroit has seen seasonal snowfall eclipse 150% of average FIVE out of the last NINE winters. We need to get that damn epic storm already for everyone here.

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LOL... Izzi with one of his gems. Another wall hanger.

AFDLOT

AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE CHICAGO/ROMEOVILLE IL

1258 AM CDT SAT MAR 26 2011

.DISCUSSION...

310 PM CDT

JANUARY-ESK WEATHER LOOKS TO CONTINUE AD NAUSEAM WITH UNSEASONABLY

COLD TEMPERATURES AND SPORADIC BOUTS OF LAKE EFFECT FLURRIES/VERY

LIGHT SNOW THROUGH THE WEEKEND. AS IF THE DISMAL WINTRY WEATHER FOR

THE FIRST FULL WEEKEND OF SPRING WASNT BAD ENOUGH...HAVE

TO ACTUALLY DISCUSS WINTER STORM POTENTIAL FOR NEXT WEEK...

SYNOPTICALLY SPEAKING THE WEATHER PICTURE IS PRETTY STRAIGHT FORWARD

THROUGH THE WEEKEND AS DAMPENING SHORTWAVE AND ITS ASSOCIATED

ACCUMULATING SNOW BYPASS OUR CWA WELL TO THE SOUTH. AN INCREASE IN

MID/HIGH CLOUDS WITH THIS FEATURE WILL BE THE PRIMARY IMPACT LOCALLY

FROM THIS SYSTEM. OTHERWISE WILL SEE THE POLAR VORTEX OVER EASTERN

CANADA WOBBLE AROUND AND PULSATE SENDING WEAK RE-ENFORCEMENTS TO THE

ALREADY VERY CHILLY AIRMASS IN PLACE.

UNFORTUNATELY MESOSCALE...MORE SPECIFICALLY LAKE EFFECT...DETAILS

ARE MORE TROUBLESOME. FAVORABLE NORTHEASTERLY FLOW COMBINED WITH

MARGINALLY FAVORABLE THERMODYNAMICS SETS THE STAGE FOR AT LEAST THE

POSSIBILITY OF LAKE EFFECT FLURRIES OR POSSIBLY SOME VERY LIGHT

SNOW. MOST FAVORABLE TIME FOR LAKE EFFECT SEEMS TO BE LATE NIGHT

INTO THE MORNING HOURS WHEN LAKE INDUCED INSTABILITY IS

MAXIMIZED...WITH FLURRIES/-SN CHANCES POSSIBLY PUSHING INLAND WITH

AFTERNOON LAKE BREEZES. DESPITE THE MENTION OF -SN OR FLURRIES

THROUGH THE WEEKEND EXPECT ANY BOUTS OF SNOW TO BE MORE THE

EXCEPTION THAN THE RULE.

BY FAR THE NICEST...OR PROBABLY MORE APPROPRIATELY WORDED LEAST

MISERABLE...OF THE NEXT 5 DAYS LOOKS TO BE MONDAY. THE POLAR AIRMASS

IS PROGGED TO LOOSEN ITS GRIPS EVER SO SLIGHTLY AND WITH SOME

SUNSHINE WE COULD SEE TEMPS WARM TO *ONLY* SINGLE DIGIT VALUES BELOW

AVERAGE (ABOVE 40F)! OF COURSE THIS RELATIVELY HEAT WAVE WILL BE FOR

INLAND AREAS AS WINDS OFF THE LAKE PROBABLY HOLD TEMPS IN THE 30S.

RELUCTANT TO EVEN BRING IT UP...PARTIALLY DUE TO DENIAL AND

PARTIALLY DUE TO SO MANY UNCERTAINTIES...BUT THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE

THE POTENTIAL FOR A WINTER STORM TUESDAY INTO TUESDAY NIGHT

SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDWEST. ID BE REMISS TO NOT DISCUSS THE

DIFFICULTIES IN SEEING A WINTER STORM THIS TIME OF YEAR AS HIGHER

SUN ANGLE/INSOLATION MAKE ACCUMS DIFFICULT DURING THE DAYTIME AND

WARM PAVEMENT/SOIL TEMPS ALSO MAKE ACCUMS MORE DIFFICULT. THOUGH NOT

IMPOSSIBLE (SEE CHIPNSLOT)...CLIMO CERTAINLY ARGUES AGAINST A

SIGNIFICANT SNOW THIS LATE IN THE SEASON...HOWEVER ECMWF AND GFS

HAVE BOTH COME INTO LINE WITH A SYNOPTIC SYSTEM THAT WOULD

DEFINITELY POSE A LATE SEASON SNOW STORM THREAT. THE MILLION DOLLAR

QUESTION AT THIS DISTANCE IS WHERE IT WILL TRACK AND JUST HOW STRONG

IT WILL BE AND AT THIS DISTANCE ITD BE IRRESPONSIBLE TO LATCH ONTO A

SINGLE MODEL OR ENSEMBLE SOLUTION. ABOUT THE ONLY THING CAN BE SAID

WITH ANY DEGREE OF CONFIDENCE AT THIS DISTANCE IS THAT A STORM

SYSTEM THAT BARES WATCHING COULD THREATEN THE REGION NEXT WEEK. JUST

FOR GRINS AND GIGGLES COULD MENTION THAT THE ECMWF HAS ANOTHER

POTENTIAL SNOW AFFECTING AREAS NEARBY BY LATE NEXT WEEKEND AS WINTER

2010-2011 SEEMINGLY STRUGGLES TO BECOME THE WINTER OF

2010-2011-2012!

IZZI

this was posted a few pages back.

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I didn't think it was possible for the GFS to get any worse up here.. Just a matter of time until the gfs and euro meet in the middle leaving it nothing to see up here. I do really hope somebody can pull out the 6"+ storm yet to come I predicted for somewhere between here to LAF. North woods already got their big one out of the way. Detroit will be due again when this one rolls around.

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DSM

LONG TERM /TONIGHT THROUGH FRIDAY/...

HIGH PRESSURE REMAINS ACROSS SOUTHERN CANADA AND THE NORTHERN PLAINS

FOR THE NEXT 24 TO 36 HOURS. PERSISTENT EASTERLY FLOW WILL TEN TO

HOLD BACK THE ONSET OF MOISTURE ACROSS THE REGION THIS EVENING AND

LESSEN THE CHANCES OF ANY LIGHT SNOW IN THE SOUTH OVERNIGHT. THE

EURO AND NAM ARE DRIER THAN THE GFS AND WILL LEAN WITH THE DRIER

SOLUTIONS FOR NOW AS EAST WINDS CONTINUE TO HOLD DRIER AIR IN PLACE

OVER IOWA THIS MORNING. ONCE THIS SYSTEM PASSES TO THE EAST LATE

TONIGHT WE WILL BEGIN TO SEE SOME SUN TOMORROW ALONG WITH

TEMPERATURES REACHING THE UPPER 30S TO NEAR 40. LOWS WILL REMAIN

SOMEWHAT OF A CHALLENGE SUNDAY NIGHT AS SKIES PARTIALLY CLEAR AND

TEMPS SHOULD FALL BACK INTO THE 20S ACROSS THE REGION. NOT LONG

AFTER THIS SHORT BREAK THE NEXT UPSTREAM WAVE ARRIVES LATE MONDAY

NIGHT OR TUESDAY. WITH THE SFC HIGH STILL IN PLACE OVER THE GREAT

LAKES...A SIMILAR SETUP IS LIKELY WITH THE OVERRUNNING PRECIPITATION

HAVING SOME DIFFICULTY OVERCOMING THE DRIER AIR OVER OUR AREA. GFS

IS STILL RATHER ADAMANT WITH LIKELY TO CATEGORICAL R/S CHANGING TO

SNOW OVER THE REGION ON TUESDAY. THE EURO MODEL HAS NOW PULLED THE

LOW FARTHER SOUTH BY TUESDAY WITH THE ONLY SNOW OCCURRING IN IOWA

FROM THE PASSAGE OF THE UPPER LEVEL LOW...GENERALLY MOISTURE STARVED

AND RATHER FAR REMOVED FROM THE H850 LOW LEVEL MOISTURE TRANSPORT.

THE GFS IS STILL PROJECTING NEARLY 8 INCHES IN DSM AND NEARLY 18

INCHES IN OTTUMWA. NEEDLESS TO SAY THIS WILL NEED TO BE MONITORED

FOR THE NEXT SEVERAL RUNS...BUT AS IN PREVIOUS DAYS...THE GFS SEEMS

TO BE THE OUTLIER OF THE MEDIUM RANGE MODELS AS THE SOUTHERN STORM

TRACK IS NOW FAVORED WITH THE ONSET OF COLDER AIR OVER THE

MIDWEST/GREAT PLAINS FOLLOWING LAST WEEKS SVR WX OUTBREAK AND

SUBSEQUENT BUCKLING OF THE LONG WAVE PATTERN. SO...LIKELY THAT ANY

SNOW AMTS WILL BE MUCH LESS THAN THE CURRENT GFS COBB OUTPUT

SUGGESTS. WITH THAT COLDER TREND STILL IN MIND...TEMPERATURES WILL

REMAIN BELOW NORMAL FOR MUCH OF THE COMING WEEK UNTIL LATE...WHEN A

STRONGER PUSH OF WARM AIR RETURNS TO THE NORTHERN PLAINS ALONG WITH

SOME ISENTROPIC LIFT AND RASN MIX BY THURSDAY NIGHT. TEMPS SHOULD

RECOVER BY LATE WEEK INTO THE 40S AND 50S ONCE THE WARM AIR ARRIVES

ON FRIDAY. THOUGH THIS IS BASED ON BOTH EURO THICKNESS AND H850

TEMPS BY THAT TIME...THE GFS MEXMOS GUIDANCE ALSO PROJECTS HIGHS IN

THE 50S OR LOWER 60S...THAT FOR AN INDEPENDENT COMPARISON. TOWARD

THE END OF THIS UPCOMING WEEK THE LONG WAVE PATTER AGAIN SHIFTS BACK

TO A MORE ZONAL REGIME...SO WARMER TEMPS AND A MORE ACTIVE WEATHER

PATTERN WILL LIKELY FOLLOW.

&&

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