Japan Nuclear Crisis Part III

[MJW155]

This is an uninformed view. There is no way to mitigate all risk.

He's basically saying that you shouldn't believe everything you see and hear from a government official. They have an agenda; telling the truth is not very high on the list.

[ArtRosen]

Since the meltdown(s) occurred 16 hours after the Earthquake, I wouldn't really blame Japanese technology. Afterall, unit 1, 2 and 6 reactors were built by GE, an American company. Several dozen reactors in the US use the same exact design as those reactors and the exact same thing could happen to those reactors if they got hit by a Tsunami like the one that hit Japan. Normally we would say "Well, this is a once in 100 year event, no need to worry." The problem is that two giant tsunamis have hit a heavily populated area in the past few years and there is absolutely nothing preventing these earthquakes from happening again and causing giant tsunamis within the next decade.

And my comment about regulation is that if we let corporations regulate themselves, we've found time after time again, that they usually don't. This should be (and unfortunately it won't be) the final nail in the coffin to the idea of pure economic conservatism Companies cannot and do not regulate themselves. They need a governing body with a set of laws to regulate them.

[OSUmetstud]

He's basically saying that you shouldn't believe everything you see and hear from a government official. They have an agenda; telling the truth is not very high on the list.

Well, obviously.

I feel like I had to shovel through a lot of crap to get through to a nugget of truth, there.

[Mt.Zoniac]

Gee.....wonder what happened to the previously acceptable radiation rate of 3 picocuries/liter INGESTION rate? It's gone up. And monitoring/posting stopped.

[A-L-E-X]

Since the meltdown(s) occurred 16 hours after the Earthquake, I wouldn't really blame Japanese technology. Afterall, unit 1, 2 and 6 reactors were built by GE, an American company. Several dozen reactors in the US use the same exact design as those reactors and the exact same thing could happen to those reactors if they got hit by a Tsunami like the one that hit Japan. Normally we would say "Well, this is a once in 100 year event, no need to worry." The problem is that two giant tsunamis have hit a heavily populated area in the past few years and there is absolutely nothing preventing these earthquakes from happening again and causing giant tsunamis within the next decade.

And my comment about regulation is that if we let corporations regulate themselves, we've found time after time again, that they usually don't. This should be (and unfortunately it won't be) the final nail in the coffin to the idea of pure economic conservatism Companies cannot and do not regulate themselves. They need a governing body with a set of laws to regulate them.

LOL we do that here too-- I'm not sure if you've read about this, but a federal judge recently berated the USDA because they want to let Monsanto regulate themselves because they said they don't have enough money to do it.

[A-L-E-X]

Gee.....wonder what happened to the previously acceptable radiation rate of 3 picocuries/liter INGESTION rate? It's gone up. And monitoring/posting stopped.

Well I'm glad you noticed that too. What's considered "acceptable" seems to be very subjective and whatever is convenient these days.....

[MJW155]

Well I'm glad you noticed that too. What's considered "acceptable" seems to be very subjective and whatever is convenient these days.....

What are you talking about? There are very stringent guidelines they follow and they couldn't possibly lie to us.

[Amped]

Arnie Gundersen latest updates. Everything's fine and dandy. All issues resolved, back to reporting on Arnold Schwarzeneggers winky.

[A-L-E-X]

What are you talking about? There are very stringent guidelines they follow and they couldn't possibly lie to us.

No of course not-- because altruism and idealism abounds in the world today, doesn't it

[Scott747]

Nothing earth shattering as it has always been generally agreed that each of the three reactors had suffered some form of a meltdown. TEPCO has now admitted that reactors #2 and #3 had in essence total meltdowns, though in the typical TEPCO fashion they aren't 100 percent sure.... http://www3.nhk.or.j...lish/24_16.html

They still haven't put up the 'circus tent' over the #1 reactor and I haven't seen anything mentioned about it as of late. It's either a mega sarcophagus or three individual ones for the long term. Supposedly they are testing the level of radiation directly above all three reactors and I'm assuming it's to determine the ability to begin construction once they are somewhat stabilized. In the last week they have entered all three of the reactor buildings but the radiation level is still so high that their time is limited.

They also are in the process of stabilizing the #4 reactor building as there is concern about the SFP and integrity of the building itself. http://www3.nhk.or.j...lish/24_16.html

Work began on Monday at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant to reinforce the structure supporting the No.4 reactor's spent fuel pool.

TEPCO's plan calls for building a new concrete structure under the pool to prevent its bottom from falling out. 30 steel columns will be set up on the second floor of the building to support the new structure.

[Amped]

http://blogs.nature.com/news/2011/05/fukushima_nuclear_plant_is_lea_1.html

And that's just the start of the bad news because the reactors themselves appear to be leaking as well. TEPCO initially hoped that the leaks were largely coming from pipes that could be repaired, but they now concede that both the reactors' pressure vessels and primary containment vessels, which are designed to contain an accident, are probably leaking water.

So we'll be waiting all summer wondering how and when those big energy dip****s will fix the leak. Why does this seem familiar?

[Baroclinic Zone]

Nothing earth shattering as it has always been generally agreed that each of the three reactors had suffered some form of a meltdown. TEPCO has now admitted that reactors #2 and #3 had in essence total meltdowns, though in the typical TEPCO fashion they aren't 100 percent sure.... http://www3.nhk.or.j...lish/24_16.html

They still haven't put up the 'circus tent' over the #1 reactor and I haven't seen anything mentioned about it as of late. It's either a mega sarcophagus or three individual ones for the long term. Supposedly they are testing the level of radiation directly above all three reactors and I'm assuming it's to determine the ability to begin construction once they are somewhat stabilized. In the last week they have entered all three of the reactor buildings but the radiation level is still so high that their time is limited.

They also are in the process of stabilizing the #4 reactor building as there is concern about the SFP and integrity of the building itself. http://www3.nhk.or.j...lish/24_16.html

Work began on Monday at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant to reinforce the structure supporting the No.4 reactor's spent fuel pool.

TEPCO's plan calls for building a new concrete structure under the pool to prevent its bottom from falling out. 30 steel columns will be set up on the second floor of the building to support the new structure.

Make that 3 meltdowns.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/06/06/japan.nuclear.meltdown/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Tokyo (CNN) -- Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant experienced full meltdowns at three reactors in the wake of an earthquake and tsunami in March, the country's Nuclear Emergency Response Headquarters said Monday.

[Plokoon111]

Now there sending a group of 270 older folks/retired groups inside as volunteers.

[NaoPos]

Now there sending a group of 270 older folks/retired groups inside as volunteers martyr's/suicide workers.

Fixed..

Terrible news

[MJW155]

Nothing to see here folks. Let's focus on more important things like Weiner's weiner and Sarah Palin's e-mails.

http://www.naturalne...hima_ocean.html

So should we continue to downplay this?

[NaoPos]

From the above article:

"Dangerous levels of radioactive iodine and cesium have already contaminated the sea, the soil, groundwater, and the air," said reporter Mark Willacy of the Australian Broadcast Corporation in a recent Lateline interview (http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/cont...). "This week plutonium was detected for the first time outside the stricken plant, and Strontium-90, known as a bone seeker because it can cause bone cancer and Leukemia, has now been found as far away as 60 kilometers (37+ miles) from the facility."

[Bozart]

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/12_02.html

[Windspeed]

Robert Alvarez, former senior policy advisor to the secretary of the US DOE has a new report out entitled Spent Nuclear Fuel Pools in the US: Reducing the Deadly Risks of Storage. He was a guest on Democracy Now to discuss the ongoing problems with Japan's nuclear crisis. Being interested in the report, I wanted to hear what he had to say. I finally had time to sit down this morning and listen. The following, in particular, really put things in perspective.

The reports that I’ve seen suggest that land contamination, in terms of areas that are technically uninhabitable because of cesium-137 contamination, is roughly 600 square kilometers, or about 17 times the size of Manhattan Island.

Very disconcerning; however, it is what came afterwards that ventured into the realm of insanity. They also interviewed a guest named Aileen Mioko Smith, who is the director of some non-profit environmental agency known as Green Action. When I heard the following snippet I about spewed my coffee:

Yes, we’re very concerned that a health study is starting at the end of this month. This is concerning the effects of the Fukushima residents, on the prefectural citizens. It’s headed by a Dr. Shunichi Yama****a, who’s at the Atomic Bomb Research Institute. He’s the radiological health safety risk management adviser for the prefecture. He’s widely shown on national TV. He speaks widely in the prefecture, always saying there’s absolutely no concern with the levels of radiation in Fukushima. He says that mothers, even mothers exposed to 100 millisieverts, pregnant mothers, will not have any effect, health effect. Remember the number 100. Compared to that, the Soviet Union required a mandatory evacuation during Chernobyl at five millisieverts. This doctor is quoted as saying, “The effects of radiation do not come to people that are happy and laughing. They come to people that are weak-spirited, that brood and fret.” This is a direct quote. And he’s heading the study. And so, the citizens in Fukushima are very concerned.

Granted, I don't know the credibility of the person being interviewed from Green Action, and I have not found any direct quotes from this Dr. Shunichi Yama****a; but if true, he sounds more like a quacked out psychiatrist than a radiation expert. You can really hear the Japanese cultural influences of humility and honor over self-pity, impiety, etc coming through. Granted, it is better to be remain positive in the aftermath of a disaster, but radioactive contaminates that pose a great hazard require a scientific study, and his opinions in this respect are absurd and nonsensical.

A few months ago, I doubted our government would need to directly get involved because I thought the Japanese were probably more equipped and prepared to stabilize such a disaster than we were. However, as time goes by, I am afraid the cultural influences of Japan are a bigger issue than their scientific ingenuity and technological resources. The situation appears to have been worsening all this time, when we were mislead that they were getting things under control. The American media has seemingly become bored with the topic, or maybe that is more a reflection of their audience. At any rate, the Japanese government and TEPCO continue to suffer epic failures in coordinating hazard to their population and in the building/repairing of infrastructure for containment of the radioactive material that poses the most risk. I am beginning to worry that our own government will be forced to take action--unfortunately at the cost of American casualties. Otherwise, we may be facing a much larger catastrophe and humanitarian crisis.

[Amped]

Robert Alvarez, former senior policy advisor to the secretary of the US DOE has a new report out entitled Spent Nuclear Fuel Pools in the US: Reducing the Deadly Risks of Storage. He was a guest on Democracy Now to discuss the ongoing problems with Japan's nuclear crisis. Being interested in the report, I wanted to hear what he had to say. I finally had time to sit down this morning and listen. The following, in particular, really put things in perspective.

The reports that I’ve seen suggest that land contamination, in terms of areas that are technically uninhabitable because of cesium-137 contamination, is roughly 600 square kilometers, or about 17 times the size of Manhattan Island.

Very disconcerning; however, it is what came afterwards that ventured into the realm of insanity. They also interviewed a guest named Aileen Mioko Smith, who is the director of some non-profit environmental agency known as Green Action. When I heard the following snippet I about spewed my coffee:

Yes, we’re very concerned that a health study is starting at the end of this month. This is concerning the effects of the Fukushima residents, on the prefectural citizens. It’s headed by a Dr. Shunichi Yama****a, who’s at the Atomic Bomb Research Institute. He’s the radiological health safety risk management adviser for the prefecture. He’s widely shown on national TV. He speaks widely in the prefecture, always saying there’s absolutely no concern with the levels of radiation in Fukushima. He says that mothers, even mothers exposed to 100 millisieverts, pregnant mothers, will not have any effect, health effect. Remember the number 100. Compared to that, the Soviet Union required a mandatory evacuation during Chernobyl at five millisieverts. This doctor is quoted as saying, “The effects of radiation do not come to people that are happy and laughing. They come to people that are weak-spirited, that brood and fret.” This is a direct quote. And he’s heading the study. And so, the citizens in Fukushima are very concerned.

Granted, I don't know the credibility of the person being interviewed from Green Action, and I have not found any direct quotes from this Dr. Shunichi Yama****a; but if true, he sounds more like a quacked out psychiatrist than a radiation expert. You can really hear the Japanese cultural influences of humility and honor over self-pity, impiety, etc coming through. Granted, it is better to be remain positive in the aftermath of a disaster, but radioactive contaminates that pose a great hazard require a scientific study, and his opinions in this respect are absurd and nonsensical.

A few months ago, I doubted our government would need to directly get involved because I thought the Japanese were probably more equipped and prepared to stabilize such a disaster than we were. However, as time goes by, I am afraid the cultural influences of Japan are a bigger issue than their scientific ingenuity and technological resources. The situation appears to have been worsening all this time, when we were mislead that they were getting things under control. The American media has seemingly become bored with the topic, or maybe that is more a reflection of their audience. At any rate, the Japanese government and TEPCO continue to suffer epic failures in coordinating hazard to their population and in the building/repairing of infrastructure for containment of the radioactive material that poses the most risk. I am beginning to worry that our own government will be forced to take action--unfortunately at the cost of American casualties. Otherwise, we may be facing a much larger catastrophe and humanitarian crisis.

http://www.fairewinds.com/

Arnie Gunderson is giving a lecture titled "could it happen here" at the Boston Public library on june 16th. I know many will accuse him of fear mongering, but this is some scary sh!t. I am especially concerned about spent fuel storage.

[AmyB]

15 people tested for radiation found to have cesium..

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/06/27/japan.radiation/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[Amped]

http://www.fairewinds.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_LeoWOzNhQ

Arnie Gundersons speech about Americas Nuclear reactors is up. Ours our just as dangerous as Japans if not works.

In a nutshell yes our Nuclear reactors rely on cooling system which rely on pumps and water and electrical power (Apparently not a given at a power plant and makes me wonder if it is safer to keep the plant running to power the cooling pumps during a crisis)

[GCANE]

I ran a HYSPLIT trajectory from Fukushima based on 00Z GFS for the next 24 hrs.

At this point, looks like radiation will fall out into the Sea of Japan.

This may become more of an issue for Honshu in the next few days.

Especially looks like Ma-on will be slowing down SE of Tokyo Thursday and Friday.

I'll run trajectories again on updated GFS runs.

Live cam:

http://lucaswhitefie...ebcamwatch.html

[catoctin wx]

I ran a HYSPLIT trajectory from Fukushima based on 00Z GFS for the next 24 hrs.

At this point, looks like radiation will fall out into the Sea of Japan.

This may become more of an issue for Honshu in the next few days.

Especially looks like Ma-on will be slowing down SE of Tokyo Thursday and Friday.

I'll run trajectories again on updated GFS runs.

Live cam:

http://lucaswhitefie...ebcamwatch.html

Why are you running HYSPLIT trajectories for this now?

[catoctin wx]

Don't know if it was put up in this thread already, but the NRCs Near Term Task Force report was published last week and is available from the public website:

http://pbadupws.nrc.gov/docs/ML1118/ML111861807.pdf

It's a bit lengthy, but there is a lot of good information and interesting recommendations within.

On a related note, this morning there will be a meeting for the Near Term Task Force to brief the Commission on its recommendations. Webcast begins at 9:30.

http://www.nrc.gov/public-involve/public-meetings/webcast-live.html

[GCANE]

Why are you running HYSPLIT trajectories for this now?

Its close, thought I would see how the radiation will blow.

[catoctin wx]

Its close, thought I would see how the radiation will blow.

gotcha. Cause from what I can find, it looks like the reactors and SFPs are mostly contained right now.

btw, I just took a class on HYSPLIT a few weeks ago, it is a fantastic program

[GCANE]

gotcha. Cause from what I can find, it looks like the reactors and SFPs are mostly contained right now.

btw, I just took a class on HYSPLIT a few weeks ago, it is a fantastic program

I like it as well for modelling ascent, especially near developing TC's.

[GCANE]

[GCANE]

I-131 still being detected in sewage sludge

[GCANE]

While many radioactive cattle have been discovered large distances from Fukushima, what is more important is where their feed is coming from. "It's not only about the radioactive cattle in Fukushima Prefecture; its also about the radioactive straw the cattle eat that was grown elsewhere". Straw found 45 miles from Fukushima is highly contaminated with radioactive cesium, which is an indication that radiation has contaminated large portions of Northern Japan. More than half a million disintegrations per second in a kilogram of straw are comparable to Chernobyl levels. This proves that the American Nuclear Regulatory Commission was correct when it told Americans to evacuate beyond 50 miles and that the Japanese should have done the same. An Ex-Secretariat of Japan's Nuclear Safety Commission blames this contamination on "Black Rain". Rather than minimize the information the Japanese people receive, Gundersen suggests minimizing their radiation exposure."