Japan Nuclear Crisis Part III

[AmyB]

Just saw on CNN.: and I paraphrase " the Japanese gov't has given the ok to dump 10tons of radioactive water into the ocean"

10tons=20,000 lbs. 1lb of water =8lbs... 8lbs into 20,000= 2500 gallons.

The big questions here are:

1. Were the units converted correctly in the translation?? Seems to be an ongoing issue

2. Do they have an accurate measurement of the amount of water being released? You cAn get a good idea of how much water you can release through a controlled opening.

3. Is this a controlled dump ? Through a Gaye valve of some sort? Or is it free handed ?

4. Probably the most important question. What are the isotopes being dumped? Celsium? Iodine? Plutonium? They didn't say from what specific reactor site so I can't comment further in that sense.

Just some questions to ponder

5. Was this news source even credible? ;-)

I read they are dumping the waters from 1, 3, 5 and 6 to store the highly contaminated water from 2..

As far as the rest of the post, I've not read anything that details what they are dumping and the levels..

EDIT: MIT's Nuclear Science and Engineering department has a blog they've been updating on occasion with bits of info that might be helpful. It also has a link to radiation levels outside the area that is updated as they find new meaurements:

Here's the link and an excerpt from the blog:

http://mitnse.com/

Water Accumulations

Contaminated water has accumulated in the basements and turbine rooms of units 1-3, and the basement of unit 4. Efforts are underway to clean up and store this water, preventing it from entering the environment, and allowing crews to continue servicing the electrical connections in the basement of each reactor.

Each reactor building additionally has a trench outside it which is concrete-encased, and holds cables and piping for its associated reactor. The trenches outside units 1-4 have flooded with contaminated water. The trenches do not flow to the ocean, and are currently being sandbagged so that they do not overflow and carry radionuclides elsewhere. TEPCO has released a nuclide analysis of trench 1 (http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/betu11_e/images/110330e2.pdf) which shows that the trench contains low levels of fission products, and no uranium or plutonium. Dose rates at the surface of this trench are around 0.4 milliSievert per hour. Dose rates at Unit 2’s trench are high, at 1000 milliSieverts per hour. This high dose rate indicates that the water has been in contact with molten fuel for some time. The pathway through which this water made it to the trench is not known at this time.

Measurements have been taken of seawater 30 km from the facility, and have indicated that only fission products, in small quantities, have made their way to the sea. These quantities, in amounts shown here (http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/betu11_e/images/110330e7.pdf) are far too low to impact human health. Fish from the region have been tested, and a have shown levels of Cs-137 at or just above the level of detection. These levels are below those of concern for fish consumption. Experts from the National Research Insitute’s Fisheries Research group say that it’s too early to draw conclusions, as the situation may change rapidly, but that the situation should improve as the radionuclides decay and dilute in seawater.

[NaoPos]

http://m.cnn.com/primary/_dekLz9-i0Xy8BUdyh

And my math was wrong from above it seems: my fault!

"For an idea about how much is 11,500 tons, one metric ton is 1,000 kilograms or about 2,200 pounds, which is close to an English ton. Water is about 8.5 pounds per gallon, so one ton is about 260 gallons," said Gary Was, a professor of nuclear engineering at the University of Michigan. "So 11,500 tons is about 3 million gallons. A spent fuel pool holds around 300,000 gallons. So this amount of water is equivalent to the volume of roughly 10 (spent fuel pools)."

[ArtRosen]

http://m.cnn.com/pri...kLz9-i0Xy8BUdyh

And my math was wrong from above it seems: my fault!

"For an idea about how much is 11,500 tons, one metric ton is 1,000 kilograms or about 2,200 pounds, which is close to an English ton. Water is about 8.5 pounds per gallon, so one ton is about 260 gallons," said Gary Was, a professor of nuclear engineering at the University of Michigan. "So 11,500 tons is about 3 million gallons. A spent fuel pool holds around 300,000 gallons. So this amount of water is equivalent to the volume of roughly 10 (spent fuel pools)."

And somehow they're saying that this is A-OK for the environment? Anyone remember what the EPA was telling us during 9/11? Sorry, I just cannot trust what they're saying here.

[JoMo]

Kyodo is reporting radioactive iodine is 7.5 million times the legal limit in seawater near the #2 reactor.

[AmyB]

Status report of the reactors from CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/05/japan.nuclear.status/index.html?hpt=T1#

The temperature reports are interesting. I had read an article that had temperature estimate info just before the hydrogen explosions, but when I went back to look for it, that info was gone..

Excerpts from the article on temperatures:

(Areva is a France-based nuclear energy company)

Reactor 1:

This is in sharp contrast to earlier in the crisis, when temperatures in the No. 1 reactor once topped 2,700 Celsius (4,800 Fahrenheit), according to an estimate from Areva, one of the world's top nuclear energy companies based in France. In such intense heat, much of the water used to cool the reactor's nuclear fuel rods may have boiled away, contributing to the full or partial exposure of the fuel rods (and little to cool them) and the significant release of radioactive vapor.

Reactor 2:

Areva estimates that the temperature in the No. 2 reactor core at one point in the crisis soared as high as 1,800 Celsius (3,200 Fahreinheit).

Reactor 3:

This cooling system -- including back-up and primary power sources -- had broken down earlier in the crisis. At one point, temperatures reached as high as 1,800 Celsius (3,200 Fahreinheit) in the No. 3 reactors, according to an analysis from Areva.

MIT's blog entry for 04-Apr-2011:

http://mitnse.com/

Excerpt from MIT blog:

TEPCO has identified a potential pathway by which water from Unit 2 may have been leaking into the Pacific Ocean. This pathway consists of a 20 cm crack in the concrete wall of a pit which holds electrical cables for the seawater intake pumps. Two efforts have been made to plug this crack, with limited success. The first was an attempt to pour fresh concrete over the breach, and the second made use of a polymer sealant. Crews are making use of tracer dyes in order to both track the flow of water out of the pit, and determine whether the repair is successful.

[Nor'easter]

Several items to ponder which are not land based.....

What are the ocean currents in the area and how large has the radioactive plume grown?

Radioactivity dispersal in water is based on a fixed level of high contamination in a small water volume being reduced to lower levels through placement into a larger volume.

At what volume of contamination (plume) will it take for the radiation levels to be reduced to accetpable health levels?

The plume area may be surprising and take the radioactivity concern of ocean waters well beyond what officials currently are disclosing.

Has there been fallout in the ocean, miles offshore, where contamination due to radioactivity in winds or rains, make stretches of the offshore ocean another health risk?

If such radioactive flashpoints exist offshore, fisheries away from the disaster, contrary to reports, could also be affected

Migratory fish in such flashpoint zones or closer to the plant would likely be impacted and if eaten would have radioactive consequence far from the current fishing and seafood exclusion zones.

What happens to sand which is exposed to the water's radiation long the shoreline and offshore?

It will drift with storms and bring contamination and affecting radioactive water quality elsewhere over time.

Should ocean soil bores should be taken as a baseline and over time to identify the spread of radioactive sands.

There should be some additional dialogue regarding the risk to consummables in the US and the types of seafood which may be impacted.

[AmyB]

Several items to ponder which are not land based.....

I had wondered the same things also, MIT's blog also has an entry about it:

http://mitnse.com/

Water Accumulations

Contaminated water has accumulated in the basements and turbine rooms of units 1-3, and the basement of unit 4. Efforts are underway to clean up and store this water, preventing it from entering the environment, and allowing crews to continue servicing the electrical connections in the basement of each reactor.

Each reactor building additionally has a trench outside it which is concrete-encased, and holds cables and piping for its associated reactor. The trenches outside units 1-4 have flooded with contaminated water. The trenches do not flow to the ocean, and are currently being sandbagged so that they do not overflow and carry radionuclides elsewhere. TEPCO has released a nuclide analysis of trench 1 (http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/betu11_e/images/110330e2.pdf) which shows that the trench contains low levels of fission products, and no uranium or plutonium. Dose rates at the surface of this trench are around 0.4 milliSievert per hour. Dose rates at Unit 2’s trench are high, at 1000 milliSieverts per hour. This high dose rate indicates that the water has been in contact with molten fuel for some time. The pathway through which this water made it to the trench is not known at this time.

Measurements have been taken of seawater 30 km from the facility, and have indicated that only fission products, in small quantities, have made their way to the sea. These quantities, in amounts shown here (http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/betu11_e/images/110330e7.pdf) are far too low to impact human health. Fish from the region have been tested, and a have shown levels of Cs-137 at or just above the level of detection. These levels are below those of concern for fish consumption. Experts from the National Research Insitute’s Fisheries Research group say that it’s too early to draw conclusions, as the situation may change rapidly, but that the situation should improve as the radionuclides decay and dilute in seawater.

[Mt.Zoniac]

Instead of spending so much time trying to figure out minute details about the Fukushima plant itself - when most of those details are sketchy at best and change minute-by-minute because the media's got it all wrong, why don't some of you hop onto the backs of EPA, NRC, and the stuff happening as a result of Fukushima right here in the U.S.??

Do you know the EPA has been steadily LOWERING the acceptable radiation exposure rate to humans since the 1940s - the more research they studied through the 50's into the 90's, the smaller the doses became for harm...until now. Since Fukushima, EPA now wants to RAISE the acceptable levels of radiation because many of the radiation levels have already been EXCEEDED, in rainwater for example, and it's already in many city's drinking water. They want this continuing clusterflock to disapper but it won't. Hell, the radition spewing out of Japan may continue for months. Today, reports show Japan is millions of times OVER the limit to dump into the ocean. Someone give them a PASS or an AOK??

The EPA maintains a set of so-called “Protective Action Guides” (PAGs). These PAGs are being quickly revised to radically increase the allowable levels of iodine-131 (a radioactive isotope) to anywhere from 3,000 to 100,000 times the currently allowable levels. For example, under the newly-revised PAGs, drinking just one glass of water considered “safe” by the EPA could subject you to the lifetime limit of radiation. Remember, radiation is cumulative; the Fukushima spew could go on for months. Links below.

These new PAGs would also vastly increase the allowable levels of radiation in soil and food, too. That way, when the radioactive fallout from Fukushima’s massive release of raw radioactive water begins to rain down upon the West Coast, the EPA can officially announce that all the radiation is “below accepted limits.” Federal officials have still not published any official data on nuclear fallout from Japan disaster. Canada has already thrown in the towel and turned off their radiation detectors altogether. They don't want to deal with it either.

RADIATION EXPOSURE DEBATE RAGES INSIDE EPA — Plan to Radically Hike Post-Accident Radiation in Food & Water Sparks Hot Dissent: http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=1325

EPA To Raise Limits for Radiation Exposure While Canada Turns Off Fallout Detectors: http://www.infowars.com/epa-to-raise-limits-for-radiation-exposure-while-canada-turns-off-fallout-detectors/

Feds Still Not Releasing Radiation Data - Government Under Fire as Radiation Is Found in Milk, Rain: http://www.baycitizen.org/japan-disaster/story/government-under-fire-radiation-milk/

Japan Millions of Time Past Radiation Limit: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/04/05/radiation-level-japan-seawater-millions-times-legal-limit/?test=latestnews

Radiation From Japan Found in U.S. Drinking Water: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/05/trace-amounts-radiation-japan-drinking-water/#comment

Threat Posed By Radioactive Milk Tough to Measure: http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/threat-posed-radioactive-milk-tough-measure-9607

[BxEngine]

Instead of spending so much time trying to figure out minute details about the Fukushima plant itself - when most of those details are sketchy at best and change minute-by-minute because the media's got it all wrong, why don't some of you hop onto the backs of EPA, NRC, and the stuff happening as a result of Fukushima right here in the U.S.??

Do you piss your pants if you forget to take off the tin foil hat while microwaving dinner?

[HIPPYVALLEY]

Do you piss your pants if you forget to take off the tin foil hat while microwaving dinner?

I cannot verify everything in the post you were responding to but I think people have a right to be paranoid. There is currently highly radioactive water pouring into the Pacific Ocean.

There have been statements made throughout the academic community about the possible regional and global effects of this disaster. I would certainly trust the opinions of professors from UC Berkeley, MIT and the Union of Concerned Scientists more than I would trust a government organization like the EPA.

edit: Reports such as this don't exactly boost my confidence in full disclosure of the magnitude of the situation.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/04_10.html

[HIPPYVALLEY]

Great high res photos of the reactor sites:

http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-npp/daiichi-photos.htm

[AmyB]

Do you piss your pants if you forget to take off the tin foil hat while microwaving dinner?

he's got Infowars listed there, as if it's a credible source! it's all a conspiracy! i knew he was an Infowars reader!

[Mt.Zoniac]

I cannot verify everything in the post you were responding to but I think people have a right to be paranoid. There is currently highly radioactive water pouring into the Pacific Ocean.

There have been statements made throughout the academic community about the possible regional and global effects of this disaster. I would certainly trust the opinions of professors from UC Berkeley, MIT and the Union of Concerned Scientists more than I would trust a government organization like the EPA.

edit: Reports such as this don't exactly boost my confidence in full disclosure of the magnitude of the situation.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/04_10.html

I wouldn't call concerned people paranoid, I'd call them vigilant. And they're pointing out the problem of not reporting or using FULL DISCLOSURE. People are concerned about the long-term effects which are cumulative. Don't blame them. Just because EPA says "within limits" and compares ingestion to a flight across the country - they're comparing apples to oranges. Ingestion is a whole different ballpark. Also since EPA is now changing the "safe limits" of radiation, or trying to, I would hope there would be a HUGE outcry from the public to find out why they're doing this now - and absolutely protesting. EPA usually goes the other way, reducing exposure rates. Now they want to raise them. That's the first change up since the Manhattan Project...

And as for 'full disclosure' as I mentioned too, there HASN'T been any full disclosure, just a bunch of placations. Berkeley and MIT and other institutions are the ones who first started detecting and REPORTING cesium and iodine. Even smaller colleges are doing so across the country. I give EPA a big F on managing this disaster.

Environmental "PROTECTION" is laughable.

[jburns]

Do you piss your pants if you forget to take off the tin foil hat while microwaving dinner?

[LithiaWx]

I wouldn't call concerned people paranoid, I'd call them vigilant. And they're pointing out the problem of not reporting or using FULL DISCLOSURE. People are concerned about the long-term effects which are cumulative. Don't blame them. Just because EPA says "within limits" and compares ingestion to a flight across the country - they're comparing apples to oranges. Ingestion is a whole different ballpark. Also since EPA is now changing the "safe limits" of radiation, or trying to, I would hope there would be a HUGE outcry from the public to find out why they're doing this now - and absolutely protesting. EPA usually goes the other way, reducing exposure rates. Now they want to raise them. That's the first change up since the Manhattan Project...

And as for 'full disclosure' as I mentioned too, there HASN'T been any full disclosure, just a bunch of placations. Berkeley and MIT and other institutions are the ones who first started detecting and REPORTING cesium and iodine. Even smaller colleges are doing so across the country. I give EPA a big F on managing this disaster.

Environmental "PROTECTION" is laughable.

Not according to Berkeley, they also compared the two. I guess they are in on the conspiracy too.

http://www.nuc.berke...inWaterSampling

So that little fact about not being able to compare the two is ridiculous. Below was taken from their website.

<a name="dose">* The number in parentheses is the number of liters of water that one would need to consume to equal the radiation exposure of a single round trip flight from San Francisco to Washington D.C. (0.05 mSv). To see how we calculate these numbers, please visit our explanation of the equivalent dose calculation.

Lastly please give me one source that is credible saying the EPA is raising limits.

[jburns]

I wouldn't call concerned people paranoid, I'd call them vigilant. And they're pointing out the problem of not reporting or using FULL DISCLOSURE.

Environmental "PROTECTION" is laughable.

I know you will not agree, but people like you are the reason that governments and companies are reluctant to release info at the "full disclosure" level in events such as this.

[SP]

Plant radiation monitor says levels immeasurable

A radiation monitor at the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant says workers there are exposed to immeasurable levels of radiation.

The monitor told NHK that no one can enter the plant's No. 1 through 3 reactor buildings because radiation levels are so high that monitoring devices have been rendered useless. He said even levels outside the buildings exceed 100 millisieverts in some places.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/05_38.html

[johnc]

leak's plugged yay

[ArtRosen]

leak's plugged yay

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/world/asia/06nuclear.html?_r=1

U.S. Sees Array of New Threats at Japan’s Nuclear Plant

United States government engineers sent to help with the crisis in Japan are warning that the troubled nuclear plant there is facing a wide array of fresh threats that could persist indefinitely, and that in some cases are expected to increase as a result of the very measures being taken to keep the plant stable, according to a confidential assessment prepared by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

[beneficii]

It looks like at 4/6 09:55 EDT (22:55 JST) a magnitude 5.3 earthquake occurred off the coast of Fukushima Prefecture. Oh boy.

EDIT:　According to the report, it was about 40 km deep.

[dan11295]

leak's plugged yay

Unfortunately this only plugged an "exterior" leak, it does nothing to stop what is causing the leakage of radioactive water within the facility. I have no clue what they can do short term to make this any better. They are stuck using the temporary pumps because in order to try to restart the cooling system you need to be able to replace/run wiring through the turbine buildings, etc. This is impossible due to high radiation levels within the reactor buildings. The high radiation is also why even finding the true source of the water leakage is extremely difficult, never mind attempting a fix (if that is even feasible). Is the plan just to pour water on it for a year or more while it continues to find someplace to leak out?

[Plokoon111]

New earthquake? Wow they can't catch a break...

[JoMo]

So they are going to inject nitrogen into reactor #1, and probably the others as well.

Edward Markey, a US representative testified that NRC said the core of reactor #2 had melted through the reactor vessel. NRC now says that isn't clear to them.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/japan-no-2-core-melted-reactor-vessel-rep-20110406-074109-708.html

[Ed Lizard]

The good news, the decay heat, heat in the reactor from further radiactive decay of fission products, should be down into the lower and flatter part of the curve.

The not as good news is that this slightly out of date chart suggests it is still probably 5 to 10 Mw, and a Mw is about a thousand electric blow dryers (how I always thought of it, the average electric hair blow drier is a little over a Kw).

[AmyB]

Nitrogen is being pumped into reactor #1.. no info about nitrogen injections for reactors #2 or #3..

Russia has offered the use of a decontamination ship used to decommision nuclear subs. It processes approximately 35 tons of waste water per day and also has storage capacity up to 800 tons..

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/07/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T2#

Exceprt from article:

Japan is currently consulting with Russian authorities on whether a shipborne decontamination plant has the capability to handle the wastewater, the Japanese Foreign Ministry told CNN on Thursday. But Tokyo has not yet asked for the vessel to be brought into the fight, said Tomosaburo Esaki, an official with the ministry's arms control and disarmament division.

The ship, the Suzeran ("Lily of the Valley"), can process up to 35 tons of radioactive waste a day and store about 800 tons. Japan built the vessel for Russia in the 1990s to help Moscow take aging nuclear submarines out of service.

Sergey Novikov, a spokesman for Russia's state-run nuclear energy company Rosatom, told CNN that, "The ball is now in their court."

"We have responded to their questions regarding the plant, and they sent us their additional questions, to which we responded as well," Novikov said. "They are still studying this issue, and we hope to hear from them soon."

Reactors 1 to 3 are all believed to have suffered damage to the fuel assemblies at their cores from overheating when the quake and tsunami knocked out cooling systems at Fukushima Daiichi.

[dan11295]

Looks like the major aftershock they were expecting has just happened.

Magnitude 7.4

Date-Time

Thursday, April 07, 2011 at 14:32:41 UTC

Thursday, April 07, 2011 at 11:32:41 PM at epicenter

Location 38.253°N, 141.640°E

Depth 25.6 km (15.9 miles)

Region NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN

Distances

66 km (41 miles) E (90°) from Sendai, Honshu, Japan

118 km (73 miles) ENE (60°) from Fukushima, Honshu, Japan

147 km (91 miles) NNE (26°) from Iwaki, Honshu, Japan

333 km (207 miles) NNE (30°) from TOKYO, Japan

Location Uncertainty horizontal +/- 13.1 km (8.1 miles); depth +/- 7.2 km (4.5 miles)

Parameters NST=426, Nph=427, Dmin=358.4 km, Rmss=0.75 sec, Gp= 32°,

M-type=regional moment magnitude (Mw), Version=B

Source

U.S. Geological Survey, National Earthquake Information Center:

World Data Center for Seismology, Denver

Event ID usc0002ksa

[Ginx snewx]

Tsunami Warning/Advisory

Issued at 23:34 JST 07 Apr 2011  

******************Headline******************

Tsunami Warnings (Tsunami) have been issued for the following coastal regions of Japan:

  MIYAGI PREF.

Evacuate immediately to safe place away from the shore in the above coastal regions.

Tsunami advisories are currently in effect in other coastal regions of Japan.

*******************Text********************

Tsunami Warnings have been issued for the following coastal regions of Japan:

<Tsunami Warning (Tsunami)>

  *MIYAGI PREF.

Evacuate immediately to safe place away from the shore in the above coastal regions.

Tsunami Advisories have been issued for the following coastal regions of Japan:

<Tsunami Advisory>

  PACIFIC COAST OF AOMORI PREF.

  *IWATE PREF.

  FUKUSHIMA PREF.

  IBARAKI PREF.

Tsunamis are expected to arrive imminently in the following coastal regions of Japan

(coastal regions shown above with * marks):

  MIYAGI PREF.

  IWATE PREF.

***********About Tsunami Forecast************

<Tsunami Warning (Tsunami)>

Tsunami height is expected to be up to 2 meters. Caution advised.

<Tsunami Advisory>

Tsunami height is expected to be about 0.5 meters. Attention advised.

******* Earthquake Information ********

 Occurred at  23:32 JST 07 Apr 2011

 Region name  MIYAGI-KEN OKI

 Latitude 38.2N

 Longitude 142.0E

 Depth  about 40 km

 Magnitude  7.4

[johnc]

Onagawa nuclear power plant (Miyagi Pref.) has lost 2 of its 3 external sources of power, according to NHK. However, I thought the plant had been offline since the first earthquake... so hopefully there's no concern there.

edit: They were using the 3 external power sources (lines) to cool the plant after going offline March 11. They still have one power line up to continue cooling operations.

more edit: There's an additional nuclear power plant that has lost its external power source (sorry I couldn't catch the name), but for both plants the diesel generators are operational.

[AmyB]

NHK reporting pressure rising in reactor #1 after nitrogen injection:

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/07_37.html

Article:

The operator of the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant says pressure inside the containment vessel of the Number 1 reactor is rising following an injection of nitrogen gas.

Tokyo Electric Power Company started the injection early on Thursday to prevent a possible hydrogen explosion at the reactor.

Fuel rods inside the reactor are nearly half exposed after a loss of cooling water, creating a dangerous buildup of oxygen and hydrogen and fears of another explosion.

The company says that after injecting 413 cubic meters of nitrogen gas until 5 PM on Thursday, the pressure reading inside the vessel was 1.76, up 0.2 from before the injection started.

The company says it will continue the work for 6 more days and study a similar operation in the Number 2 and 3 reactors.

Tokyo Electric also admitted that the level of highly radioactive water in a concrete tunnel of the Number 2 reactor rose 5 centimeters in the 24 hours until 7 AM local time on Thursday.

It says the rise may be a result of work on Wednesday to stop highly radioactive water leaking into the sea from a cracked concrete pit.

The company says the water is about a meter below the ground level, and that it will keep monitoring it to prevent an overflow.

Tokyo Electric has so far dumped about 7,300 tons of low-level radioactive wastewater into the sea from a storage facility to make room for more highly contaminated water.

The company says the last 700 tons of water will be discharged by Friday.

Thursday, April 07, 2011 20:24 +0900 (JST)

[Scott747]

Tohoku Electric: Water leaks at Onagawa NPP from Reactor 1,2 spent fuel pools.

Apparently it's more of a slosh/spill and not damage to the fuel pools.