Japan Nuclear Crisis Part III

[Clinch Leatherwood]

People wonder why nobody trusts tepco. They are bumbling idiots and the latest fiasco with readings only proves it. Embarrassing.

[Mt.Zoniac]

LOL

Japan: Huge radiation spike at nuke was a mistake

Officials: Measurement of huge spike in radiation at Japanese nuclear plant was a mistake

TOKYO (AP) -- Emergency workers struggling to pump contaminated water from Japan's stricken nuclear complex fled from one of the troubled reactors Sunday after reporting a huge increase in radioactivity -- a spike that officials later apologetically said was inaccurate.

The apology came after employees fled the complex's Unit 2 reactor when a reading showed radiation levels had reached 10 million times higher than normal in the reactor's cooling system. Officials said they were so high that the worker taking the measurements had withdrawn before taking a second reading.

On Sunday night, though, plant operators said that while the water was contaminated with radiation, the extremely high reading was a mistake.

"The number is not credible," said Tokyo Electric Power Co. spokesman Takashi Kurita. "We are very sorryHe said officials were taking another sample to get accurate levels, but did not know when the results would be announced.

http://finance.yahoo...in&asset==

Yep, I just saw this too and figured they do it again (isn't the first time during the past two weeks). Back away. Deny, obfuscate, deflect. Who in the hell believes TEPCO or any of their ilk? Any wonder some of us give them absolutely NO credibility? They sound like clowns who have no clue and are being told to deny due to the severe market crash that would occur in Japan.

[samdman95]

BBC: It had said radiation levels reached 10 million times higher than normal in the cooling system but because the level was so high the worker taking the reading had to evacuate before confirming it with a second reading.A spokesman for Japan's nuclear watchdog, Hidehiko Nishiyama, said the level of radiation in puddles near reactor two was confirmed at 1,000 millisieverts an hour.

So apparently it actually was 1000mSv or 1 Sv per hour but that isnt 10million times normal.

[janetjanet998]

BBC: It had said radiation levels reached 10 million times higher than normal in the cooling system but because the level was so high the worker taking the reading had to evacuate before confirming it with a second reading.A spokesman for Japan's nuclear watchdog, Hidehiko Nishiyama, said the level of radiation in puddles near reactor two was confirmed at 1,000 millisieverts an hour.

So apparently it actually was 1000mSv or 1 Sv per hour but that isnt 10million times normal.

so what would a reading be of 10 million times above the normal reactor reading then/??

but I don't get it....how did they know that the levels were not correct before they took a second test?

"The number is not credible," said Tokyo Electric Power Co. spokesman Takashi Kurita. "We are very sorryHe said officials were taking another sample to get accurate levels, but did not know when the results would be announced.

[ApacheTrout]

What a blow to the credibility of TEPCO. Is there any outside organization monitoring radiation on site?

[SP]

Absolutely ridiculous..

Horsecrap.

Phineas lambastes me for this, giving me more confidence about the validity:

http://www.epa.gov/j...-eureka-bg.html

gaps occur when devices are offline for servicing.

how is this a big deal in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

It only limits the credibility of those who are pushing this story.

[OSUmetstud]

This has now happened about a half-dozen times when TEPCO releases a very high radiation number only to say the next day...oh that's a mistake...we are sorry...we ment micro..not milli etc. etc.

It at the very least makes them look like bumbling fools.

[Clinch Leatherwood]

Even the 1000 milli is pretty extreme. From the workers perspective if I thought it was a million times over normal I'd be high tailing it too. But this also highlights that the people doing the readings probably aren't trained all that well?

It's a mess. Why can't they install a wireless monitors?

[Organizing Low]

Holly crap, thats almost 2 Krusty Burgers.

[Organizing Low]

That's right SANDMAN & ARTROSEN - you both nailed it too. The radiation is 10MILLION TIMES HIGHER THAN NORMAL..which is a REACTOR BREACH. WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING FOR DAYS. That doesn't just turn off or drop the next time they report. Probably been that way since the beginning. Contamination is rampant. Sea is contaminated, food, which means earth/ground - everything. Look, even Aljazzera is saying the same thing. Now ------ where is the radioactive ocean plume data and maps? The radioactive air plume maps? I haven't seen one since March 17. Someone told the press not to ask those questions? Come on! This is ridiculous.

[Scott747]

Over 1,000 millisieverts per hour found in water at No.2 reactor

Still like a slow moving trainwreck.

750mSv at the #3 reactor.

If you read this thread we posted what the correct readings were....

http://www.meti.go.jp/press/20110327001/20110327001-4.pdf

[SuperNET]

It appears to me that there is no easy fix, and that the option of encasing the site with sand, concrete, etc....will be the only option. Not sure how they intend to cool a reactor site that has been breached, and or fuel pools for that matter.

It's entirely possible that this goes on for months, maybe years.

[OSUmetstud]

Even the 1000 milli is pretty extreme. From the workers perspective if I thought it was a million times over normal I'd be high tailing it too. But this also highlights that the people doing the readings probably aren't trained all that well?

It's a mess. Why can't they install a wireless monitors?

Plant workers are exposed to an average of 110 mrem a year or 1.1 mSV a year from working at a nuke plant. Assuming the average worker works about 2300 hours a year...you get an average equivalent dose of about 0.5 uSV/hr. working...

1000 mSV/hour is 2 million times the average equivalent dose a worker is receiving by working. Radiation in the turbine building or the water may in fact be normally higher than what the average worker is being exposed to during his daily routine.

[ApacheTrout]

A comparative assessment of the radiation levels can be found at New Scientist, where the authors show that daily radiation levels for caesium-137 and iodine are 60% and 73%, respectively, of the levels observed following Chernobyl.

[Clinch Leatherwood]

Plant workers are exposed to an average of 110 mrem a year or 1.1 mSV a year from working at a nuke plant. Assuming the average worker works about 2300 hours a year...you get an average equivalent dose of about 0.5 uSV/hr. working...

1000 mSV/hour is 2 million times the average equivalent dose a worker is receiving by working. Radiation in the turbine building or the water may in fact be normally higher than what the average worker is being exposed to during his daily routine.

Talked to my buddy that works in a plant last night. He assures me that even in the same style reactors we have way more safeguards in place. Much longer battery life for one. But like he said big changes incoming for the better. I for one still support nuclear energy so long as:

we get the spent rods off site and we make sure we get passive emergency cooling systems in place...water running down the hill type of deal.

A comparative assessment of the radiation levels can be found at New Scientist, where the authors show that daily radiation levels for caesium-137 and iodine are 60% and 73%, respectively, of the levels observed following Chernobyl.

Well that doesn't seem very good at all.

[winterymix]

Well that doesn't seem very good at all.

The person that cited the article omitted the next sentence explaining that the two situations are non-analogous.

The article cited also referenced this:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20257-why-fukushima-daiichi-wont-be-another-chernobyl.html

[Scott747]

TEPCO revises Iodine 134 level in reactor 2 turbine bldg water from "10 million times normal" to "100,000 times normal"

[Clinch Leatherwood]

TEPCO revises Iodine 134 level in reactor 2 turbine bldg water from "10 million times normal" to "100,000 times normal"

That's much better....

[ApacheTrout]

By citing the article, I wasn't comparing the two events per how the radiation was emitted, but I could see how you could conclude otherwise.

The person that cited the article omitted the next sentence explaining that the two situations are non-analogous.

The article cited also referenced this:

http://www.newscient...-chernobyl.html

[Scott747]

That's much better....

Well people can choose who to listen to when information is posted. You can see someone like Mt. Z and a few others jumping on the huge 10 mil number and then acting like it validates something.

JoMo posted about the 1000 reading at the #2 reactor and I followed up with the 750 reading in the #3 reactor and posted the link up above.

No question that TEPCO comes across as a bunch of bumbling fools at times but information is out there if you take a little time to look for it.

[Dunkman]

At this point anyone who compares a radiation reading to normal should be fired. Just give people the damn number...it's 2011 they can figure out what it means themselves.

[Scott747]

At this point anyone who compares a radiation reading to normal should be fired. Just give people the damn number...it's 2011 they can figure out what it means themselves.

Trying to communicate the effects of radiation/reactor meltdown to the public at large is a daunting task. Not to mention that it comes after the earthquake/tsunami.

I'm not making excuses for Tepco and .gov the Japanese version as they have been horrible in many ways. It's just such a unique event and there will be plenty of confusion generated.

[winterymix]

By citing the article, I wasn't comparing the two events per how the radiation was emitted, but I could see how you could conclude otherwise.

Radioactive particles being shed via updrafts from a fire is a far different concern than the activity in Japan which is modified by downdrafts;

all of the water being dumped.

It is in our rainwater, insignificant levels. With airborne radio nucleotides not increasing over there, one would think we've seen the worst of it and

that being hardly a concern at all.

Some transparency in reporting:

EPA update on Sunday, March 27: As a result of the incident with the Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan, several EPA air monitors have detected very low levels of radioactive material in the United States consistent with estimates from the damaged nuclear reactors. These detections were expected and the levels detected are far below levels of public-health concern.

Elevated levels of radioactive material in rainwater have been expected as a result of the nuclear incident after the events in Japan since radiation is known to travel in the atmosphere. There have been reports received that the states of Pennsylvania and Massachusetts have seen elevated levels of radiation in recent precipitation events. EPA is reviewing this data – however, in both cases these are levels above the normal background levels historically reported in these areas.

While short-term elevations such as these do not raise public health concerns – and the levels seen in rainwater are expected to be relatively short in duration – the U.S. EPA has taken steps to increase the level of nationwide monitoring of precipitation, drinking water, and other potential exposure routes to continue to verify that.

EPA’s only recommendation to state and local governments is to continue to coordinate closely with EPA, CDC and FDA – EPA will continue to communicate our nationwide sampling results as they come in.

[janetjanet998]

More obstacles impede crews in Japan nuke crisis

The day began with company officials reporting that radiation in leaking water in the Unit 2 reactor was 10 million times above normal, a spike that forced employees to flee the unit. The day ended with officials saying the huge figure had been miscalculated and offering apologies.

"The number is not credible," said Tokyo Electric Power Co. spokesman Takashi Kurita. "We are very sorry."

A few hours later, TEPCO Vice President Sakae Muto said a new test had found radiation levels 100,000 times above normal — far better than the first results, though still very high.

But he ruled out having an independent monitor oversee the various checks despite the errors.

-----------------

Officials acknowledged there was radioactive water in all four of the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex's most troubled reactors, and that airborne radiation in Unit 2 measured 1,000 millisieverts per hour, four times the limit deemed safe by the government.

--------------

Workers have been scrambling to remove the radioactive water from the four units and find a place to safely store it. Each unit may hold tens of thousands of gallons of radioactive water, said Minoru Ogoda of Japan's nuclear safety agency.

Safety agency officials had been hoping to pump the water into huge, partly empty tanks inside the reactor that are designed to hold condensed water.

Those tanks, though, turned out to be completely full, said Hidehiko Nishiyama of Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency.

Meanwhile, plans to use regular power to restart the cooling system hit a roadblock when it turned out that cables had to be laid through turbine buildings flooded with the contaminated water.

"The problem is that right now nobody can reach the turbine houses where key electrical work must be done," Nishiyama said. "There is a possibility that we may have to give up on that plan."

-------------------

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_japan_earthquake;_ylt=Ah000gzvtSu2z1AGFrtNOHIV6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTM3c25tZmFwBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwMzI3L2FzX2phcGFuX2VhcnRocXVha2UEY2NvZGUDbXBfZWNfOF8xMARjcG9zAzIEcG9zAzIEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawNtb3Jlb2JzdGFjbGU-

[ArtRosen]

Congrats to TEPCO for finding a way to make radiation "100,000 times normal" sound almost like good news. Now can anyone tell me what "normal" is so I can multiply it by 100,000? kthx.

[janetjanet998]

TOKYO, March 28 (Reuters) - Japan appeared resigned on Monday to a long fight to contain the world's worst atomic crisis in 25 years after high radiation levels complicated work at its crippled nuclear plant.

Engineers have been battling to control the six-reactor Fukushima complex since it was damaged by a March 11 earthquake and tsunami that also left more than 27,000 people dead or missing across Japan's devastated north east.

Radiation at the plant has soared in recent days: latest readings at the weekend showed contamination 100,000 times normal in water at reactor No. 2 and 1,850 times normal in the nearby sea.

Those were the most alarming levels since the crisis began, experts said.

"It's very worrying ... there is something seriously wrong (at No. 2)," said Rianne Teule, a nuclear expert for environmental group Greenpeace based in South Africa.

Under-pressure plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. (9501.T) (TEPCO) conceded what experts have long been saying: that Japan now faces a protracted and uncertain operation to contain overheating fuel rods and prevent a meltdown.

"Regrettably, we don't have a concrete schedule at the moment to enable us to say in how many months or years (the crisis will be over)," TEPCO vice-president Sakae Muto said in the latest of round-the-clock briefings the company holds. <^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/27/japan-idUSL3E7ER06O20110327

[janetjanet998]

Radioactivity at the surface of the puddle at the No. 3 unit was 400 millisieverts per hour as of Thursday, still far below the more than 1,000 millisieverts per hour detected at the puddle of the No. 2 reactor's turbine building.

Tokyo Electric was not able to confirm how much the actual amount of radiation was at the No. 2 reactor because the radioactivity level was too high for workers to continue measuring.

At a radiation level of 1,000 millisieverts per hour, people could suffer a decrease in the number of lymphocytes -- a type of white blood cell -- in just 30 minutes, and half of the people could die within 30 days by staying in such conditions for four hours.

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/81375.html

[johnc]

Thank God the winds have been offshore for so long or this thing would be a lot worse.

Japan is going to be facing some serious challenges over the next half-century that are really going to test its position in the world.

[LithiaWx]

At this point anyone who compares a radiation reading to normal should be fired. Just give people the damn number...it's 2011 they can figure out what it means themselves.

Absolutely, I was harping on this point a few days ago.... I was met with folks saying it's fine..... I completely agree with them just giving a damn number. It causes confusion, hype,and many other problems when you go 10,000 time, 100,000 times ect.... Just give a quantifiable number.

[OSUmetstud]

Absolutely, I was harping on this point a few days ago.... I was met with folks saying it's fine..... I completely agree with them just giving a damn number. It causes confusion, hype,and many other problems when you go 10,000 time, 100,000 times ect.... Just give a quantifiable number.

they do both though...it's more complete information and reporting. The lay person will not understand what particular radiation numbers mean...so they compare them to normal to give context.