WeatherRusty Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I give up. There is no argument which could restore to science the respect it so richly deserves. Academics are now looked down upon. Being an expert at something brings ridicule and condescension. Ideology, politics, money and religion are reclaiming a strong foothold in the determination of our country's future. Science be damned. The Republicans have voted unanimously to deny an amendment stating that the world is warming. They have as a political party decided that the scientific finding of warming is untrue. Of course they also denied the more encompassing resolution stating that recent warming has been due to human activities. What have we become that this mindset has taken hold in this country? They have gone on record stating that the Earth has not been warming. Science be damned. The Hill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakeEffectKing Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I give up. There is no argument which could restore to science the respect it so richly deserves. Academics are now looked down upon. Being an expert at something brings ridicule and condescension. Ideology, politics, money and religion are reclaiming a strong foothold in the determination of our country's future. Science be damned. The Republicans have voted unanimously to deny an amendment stating that the world is warming. They have as a political party decided that the scientific finding of warming is untrue. Of course they also denied the more encompassing resolution stating that recent warming has been due to human activities. What have we become that this mindset has taken hold in this country? They have gone on record stating that the Earth has not been warming. Science be damned. The Hill Even if the science is perfect....the impact that we could possibly have, through proposed legislative measures (and admitted by the staunchest of AGW fanatics), would have a miniscule impact. And we DO elect people who serve OUR country....not necessarily the whole globe.....I know you can't see that, but it is what their first obligation is. So, again, try to justify our economic/societal impacts that we'd have implementing governmentally run CO2 cutting measures, all the while those measures meaning diddly squat??? Symbolism over substance, once again, FTL...... If the AGW movement had really wanted to impose meaningful legislation that really had a chance, they shouldn't have laid on the gloom and doom crap so hot and heavy....(ie reign in the comments from the wack jobs equating the most obscure to AGW) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mencken_Fan Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Today's republican politicians are not thinkers and doers, they are merely conduits for corporate and evangelical America. Throughout history, science has always been in the realm of liberal thinkers. The greatest "achievement" in the history of science was the Age of Enlightenment; an intellectual break from religion that gained momentum in the 1700s. Corporatism once gave us human slavery. Today, the top 400 Americans hold as much wealth as the lower 150 million combined. Human slavery is being replaced by financial slavery. For America's religious core, there is no greater threat than science and intellectualism. The bronze-age intellectualism of the Bible seems to be about as much as they care to know. These religious sheep are uncomfortable thinking on their own so they follow and obey their leaders; and the more charismatic the leader, the more drunken the religious followers become. Leave this website and head out onto the world wide web. From YouTube to countless blogs and websites there is a vast malignant world of pseudo-science. For every natural phenomenon (earthquake, volcano, solar, astronomy, weather/climate, etc.) there is a fantastic parade of "scientific lunacy." At least I can understand the corporatist purpose (profit.) But the religious purpose? Rejecting science simply because it challenges the Bible puts these people on par with Afghan goat herders. And let's not kid ourselves; the percentage of Americans with non-scientific or non-rational beliefs is staggering. The corporatists (secular) are fully aware the lunacy of the religious masses and take full advantage of them by promoting their philosophies in order to combat the rational secular world (a world that doesn't appreciate corporate slavery.) It's a vicious cycle; and we seem to be going nowhere. Hmmm....on second thought, the rational world actually seems to be losing. On a final note, let me remind people how damaging it is to say "religion is harmless." It most certainly is not! Just look at our Congress and our nation today. As Gore Vidal once said: "religion is the greatest plague to ever befall the western hemisphere." How can we properly deal with climate when we're still struggling with 19th Century evolution! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeatherRusty Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 Even if the science is perfect....the impact that we could possibly have, through proposed legislative measures (and admitted by the staunchest of AGW fanatics), would have a miniscule impact. And we DO elect people who serve OUR country....not necessarily the whole globe.....I know you can't see that, but it is what their first obligation is. So, again, try to justify our economic/societal impacts that we'd have implementing governmentally run CO2 cutting measures, all the while those measures meaning diddly squat??? Symbolism over substance, once again, FTL...... If the AGW movement had really wanted to impose meaningful legislation that really had a chance, they shouldn't have laid on the gloom and doom crap so hot and heavy....(ie reign in the comments from the wack jobs equating the most obscure to AGW) The issue is not whether to mitigate or not. The issue involves a denial of science based on an ideology. Most everyone understands and acknowledges that the Earth has warmed during the past 150 years. That is except for the Republican party and the truly ignorant. What do they fear? Facing that fact forces them to consider the need for mitigation? Or maybe the posibility that the capitalistic economic model which demands never ending growth to be successful may actually be doomed to failure as it comes face to face with the realities implied by the laws of thermodynamics? There is a natural limit to growth. Nothing can grow indefinitely, whether it be an economic system, a population, a star or anything else. We had better find a sustainable economic model or we are doomed. Population and our choices for energy top the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeatherRusty Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 Do any of you support this environmental assault being pushed by the Tea Party and Republicans? Republicans attack Obama's environmental protection from all sides Environmental protection in US under attack from extremist Tea Partiers backed by big business Guardian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocoAko Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 The issue is not whether to mitigate or not. The issue involves a denial of science based on an ideology. Most everyone understands and acknowledges that the Earth has warmed during the past 150 years. That is except for the Republican party and the truly ignorant. What do they fear? Facing that fact forces them to consider the need for mitigation? Or maybe the posibility that the capitalistic economic model which demands never ending growth to be successful may actually be doomed to failure as it comes face to face with the realities implied by the laws of thermodynamics? There is a natural limit to growth. Nothing can grow indefinitely, whether it be an economic system, a population, a star or anything else. We had better find a sustainable economic model or we are doomed. Population and our choices for energy top the list. Good post. This is disgusting. Yeah, I see the need to debate policy implementations about how to address global warming. Et cetera. But to vote down the party line unanimously that climate change isn't even occurring? Idiots. Not much else to say. Hopefully in the future it will become clear that these people were blatantly on the wrong side of history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 http://thehill.com/b...ge-is-occurring The amendment says that "Congress accepts the scientific finding of the Environmental Protection Agency that 'warming of the climate system is unequivocal, as is now evident from observations of increases in global average air and ocean temperatures, widespread melting of snow and ice, and rising global average sea level.'"[...] DeGette's amendment says “’the scientific evidence is compelling’ that elevated concentrations of greenhouse gases resulting from anthropogenic emissions ‘are the root cause of recently observed climate change.’” This is just crap legislation. We've elected our Senators and Representatives to pass laws, deal with finances, build roads, etc. This does none of the above. It is just a meaningless statement. Aren't some of these clowns Lawyers? Is it wise to pass a blanket statement saying that we could be the cause of everybody's environmental woes around the world whether or not it has anything to do with CO2 emissions? Conservation may be prudent and should be treated seriously. However, science certainly isn't about a bunch of non-scientists voting whether or not the scientific theory of the day is correct or not! :thumbsdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Global_Warmer Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Today's republican politicians are not thinkers and doers, they are merely conduits for corporate and evangelical America. Throughout history, science has always been in the realm of liberal thinkers. The greatest "achievement" in the history of science was the Age of Enlightenment; an intellectual break from religion that gained momentum in the 1700s. Corporatism once gave us human slavery. Today, the top 400 Americans hold as much wealth as the lower 150 million combined. Human slavery is being replaced by financial slavery. For America's religious core, there is no greater threat than science and intellectualism. The bronze-age intellectualism of the Bible seems to be about as much as they care to know. These religious sheep are uncomfortable thinking on their own so they follow and obey their leaders; and the more charismatic the leader, the more drunken the religious followers become. Leave this website and head out onto the world wide web. From YouTube to countless blogs and websites there is a vast malignant world of pseudo-science. For every natural phenomenon (earthquake, volcano, solar, astronomy, weather/climate, etc.) there is a fantastic parade of "scientific lunacy." At least I can understand the corporatist purpose (profit.) But the religious purpose? Rejecting science simply because it challenges the Bible puts these people on par with Afghan goat herders. And let's not kid ourselves; the percentage of Americans with non-scientific or non-rational beliefs is staggering. The corporatists (secular) are fully aware the lunacy of the religious masses and take full advantage of them by promoting their philosophies in order to combat the rational secular world (a world that doesn't appreciate corporate slavery.) It's a vicious cycle; and we seem to be going nowhere. Hmmm....on second thought, the rational world actually seems to be losing. On a final note, let me remind people how damaging it is to say "religion is harmless." It most certainly is not! Just look at our Congress and our nation today. As Gore Vidal once said: "religion is the greatest plague to ever befall the western hemisphere." How can we properly deal with climate when we're still struggling with 19th Century evolution! EPIC GOLD. IT''S SO SAD BROTHER, AMERICANS ARE SLAVES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Global_Warmer Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Do any of you support this environmental assault being pushed by the Tea Party and Republicans? Republicans attack Obama's environmental protection from all sides Environmental protection in US under attack from extremist Tea Partiers backed by big business Guardian lol, how sad. I can't believe some of the things the republicans do. If I supported Scott Walker I would be ashamed of myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeatherRusty Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 http://thehill.com/b...ge-is-occurring This is just crap legislation. We've elected our Senators and Representatives to pass laws, deal with finances, build roads, etc. This does none of the above. It is just a meaningless statement. Aren't some of these clowns Lawyers? Is it wise to pass a blanket statement saying that we could be the cause of everybody's environmental woes around the world whether or not it has anything to do with CO2 emissions? Conservation may be prudent and should be treated seriously. However, science certainly isn't about a bunch of non-scientists voting whether or not the scientific theory of the day is correct or not! :thumbsdown: These amendments were an attempt to allow the Republicans to reveal their true colors, and they took the bait. They are anti-science, anti-environment. The Republican lead House seeks to defund the EPA by a total of 30%, by far the largest cutting of any agency. Their agenda is clearly to favor industrial pollution at the expense of the environment and the general population. Their leader, Sen. James Inhofe, believes AGW to be a hoax. Americans for Prosperity sees cutting environmental regulation – especially that related to climate change, which would cost the oil industry – as a key area."Energy policy is one of our top three priorities," said Phil Kerpen, policy director of Americans for Prosperity. "For me personally it's a top concern and major focus."He added: "It is not that we are totally against environmental protection but in the hierarchy of values, it has taken a back seat." Back to the 1950's we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambone Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Today's republican politicians are not thinkers and doers, they are merely conduits for corporate and evangelical America. Throughout history, science has always been in the realm of liberal thinkers. The greatest "achievement" in the history of science was the Age of Enlightenment; an intellectual break from religion that gained momentum in the 1700s. Corporatism once gave us human slavery. Today, the top 400 Americans hold as much wealth as the lower 150 million combined. Human slavery is being replaced by financial slavery. For America's religious core, there is no greater threat than science and intellectualism. The bronze-age intellectualism of the Bible seems to be about as much as they care to know. These religious sheep are uncomfortable thinking on their own so they follow and obey their leaders; and the more charismatic the leader, the more drunken the religious followers become. Leave this website and head out onto the world wide web. From YouTube to countless blogs and websites there is a vast malignant world of pseudo-science. For every natural phenomenon (earthquake, volcano, solar, astronomy, weather/climate, etc.) there is a fantastic parade of "scientific lunacy." At least I can understand the corporatist purpose (profit.) But the religious purpose? Rejecting science simply because it challenges the Bible puts these people on par with Afghan goat herders. And let's not kid ourselves; the percentage of Americans with non-scientific or non-rational beliefs is staggering. The corporatists (secular) are fully aware the lunacy of the religious masses and take full advantage of them by promoting their philosophies in order to combat the rational secular world (a world that doesn't appreciate corporate slavery.) It's a vicious cycle; and we seem to be going nowhere. Hmmm....on second thought, the rational world actually seems to be losing. On a final note, let me remind people how damaging it is to say "religion is harmless." It most certainly is not! Just look at our Congress and our nation today. As Gore Vidal once said: "religion is the greatest plague to ever befall the western hemisphere." How can we properly deal with climate when we're still struggling with 19th Century evolution! Someplace there is a tree that needs hugging. Why don't you find it instead of insulting people with whom you disagree. The earth has been warming for 14000 years. To attribute the last 50 years to purely human activity is a political mindset form the left that wants to see redistribution of wealth, the destruction of corporate America, and the imposition of the "liberal view of life" upon the rest of the world. Al Gore is the false prophet, and making a fortune stoking the anti American fires of the left. We're still on the brink of a worldwide depression. You and your "movement" want to push us all into the abyss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeatherRusty Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 Someplace there is a tree that needs hugging. Why don't you find it instead of insulting people with whom you disagree. The earth has been warming for 14000 years. To attribute the last 50 years to purely human activity is a political mindset form the left that wants to see redistribution of wealth, the destruction of corporate America, and the imposition of the "liberal view of life" upon the rest of the world. Al Gore is the false prophet, and making a fortune stoking the anti American fires of the left. We're still on the brink of a worldwide depression. You and your "movement" want to push us all into the abyss. Because your ideology is taking the world down a rat hole. Just say it....the science behind AGW is hoax and you know better than, for instance the National Academies of Science. News Alert: Science is neither liberal nor conservative. Plots and conspiracy everywhere. Those damned scientists and their gullible minions. Glory be to God. Who cares if mercury and lead profuse through the environment? Who cares if smog is allowed to envelope our air? Who cares if the last of pristine wilderness is allowed to be developed? And who cares if the globe continues to warm? Who cares in the oceans becomes more and more acidic ? Who cares if the oxygen depleted dead zones growing in our oceans continue to spread? The only thing that matters is whether or not I have a job next month and that billionaire industrialist grow even richer. The environment must take a back seat as it basically always has.....until it becomes a dead, inhospitable place. What fools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaguars Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Today's republican politicians are not thinkers and doers, they are merely conduits for corporate and evangelical America. Throughout history, science has always been in the realm of liberal thinkers. The greatest "achievement" in the history of science was the Age of Enlightenment; an intellectual break from religion that gained momentum in the 1700s. Corporatism once gave us human slavery. Today, the top 400 Americans hold as much wealth as the lower 150 million combined. Human slavery is being replaced by financial slavery. For America's religious core, there is no greater threat than science and intellectualism. The bronze-age intellectualism of the Bible seems to be about as much as they care to know. These religious sheep are uncomfortable thinking on their own so they follow and obey their leaders; and the more charismatic the leader, the more drunken the religious followers become. Leave this website and head out onto the world wide web. From YouTube to countless blogs and websites there is a vast malignant world of pseudo-science. For every natural phenomenon (earthquake, volcano, solar, astronomy, weather/climate, etc.) there is a fantastic parade of "scientific lunacy." At least I can understand the corporatist purpose (profit.) But the religious purpose? Rejecting science simply because it challenges the Bible puts these people on par with Afghan goat herders. And let's not kid ourselves; the percentage of Americans with non-scientific or non-rational beliefs is staggering. The corporatists (secular) are fully aware the lunacy of the religious masses and take full advantage of them by promoting their philosophies in order to combat the rational secular world (a world that doesn't appreciate corporate slavery.) It's a vicious cycle; and we seem to be going nowhere. Hmmm....on second thought, the rational world actually seems to be losing. On a final note, let me remind people how damaging it is to say "religion is harmless." It most certainly is not! Just look at our Congress and our nation today. As Gore Vidal once said: "religion is the greatest plague to ever befall the western hemisphere." How can we properly deal with climate when we're still struggling with 19th Century evolution! What is that number? Also, lotto #s please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 These amendments were an attempt to allow the Republicans to reveal their true colors, and they took the bait. They are anti-science, anti-environment. The Republican lead House seeks to defund the EPA by a total of 30%, by far the largest cutting of any agency. Their agenda is clearly to favor industrial pollution at the expense of the environment and the general population. Their leader, Sen. James Inhofe, believes AGW to be a hoax. So, This needs to be seen as what it is. A political ploy designed to rile their opponents. It has nothing to do with the pursuit of good science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeatherRusty Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 So, This needs to be seen as what it is. A political ploy designed to rile their opponents. It has nothing to do with the pursuit of good science. Your right about that. This isn't about science, the science is a separate issue conducted by scientists. The Republicans and Tea Party are applying their new found political might in pursuit of their political and ideological agenda. The science be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakeEffectKing Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Your right about that. This isn't about science, the science is a separate issue conducted by scientists. The Republicans and Tea Party are applying their new found political might in pursuit of their political and ideological agenda. The science be damned. And, of course, nobody on the left is capable of that.....right???... If the political left and the AGW climotologists hadn't gotten married right from the get go, the SCIENCE, you so adamently defend with polarized lenses, would have had a chance to have a broader (ideologically speaking) audience. I will say it again.....your (and many others' in the AGW camp) perception that ALL skeptics, are deniers, which are republicans, which are conservitives, which are tea partiers, which are disgusting, which are evil, which are.......etc. ....etc.....etc..., will aid in leading to the demise of the entire movement AND any science associated with it. But carry on with that stereotypical blah, blah, blah if it helps justify your own beliefs......BTW....believe it or not.....I personally know more DEMOCRAT tea partiers than I know CONSERVITIVE ONES!!!! Stop being so damn subjective in your assessment of half of America.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeatherRusty Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 And, of course, nobody on the left is capable of that.....right???... If the political left and the AGW climotologists hadn't gotten married right from the get go, the SCIENCE, you so adamently defend with polarized lenses, would have had a chance to have a broader (ideologically speaking) audience. I will say it again.....your (and many others' in the AGW camp) perception that ALL skeptics, are deniers, which are republicans, which are conservitives, which are tea partiers, which are disgusting, which are evil, which are.......etc. ....etc.....etc..., will aid in leading to the demise of the entire movement AND any science associated with it. But carry on with that stereotypical blah, blah, blah if it helps justify your own beliefs......BTW....believe it or not.....I personally know more DEMOCRAT tea partiers than I know CONSERVITIVE ONES!!!! Stop being so damn subjective in your assessment of half of America.... If the political left and the AGW climotologists hadn't gotten married right from the get go, the SCIENCE, you so adamently defend with polarized lenses, would have had a chance to have a broader (ideologically speaking) audience. No way it would have broader ideological backing. AGW is an affront to the very basis of conservative thinking as are most all environmental issues. These people have fought every attempt to maintain a healthy environment from acid rain, DDT, ozone, first and second hand smoke and now AGW. They view AGW as a liberal conspiracy or hoax. An attack on the American ideal of personal freedom and individualism. An attack on the capitalistic model on which we base our economic system. None of this has anything to do with science. Its all politics and ideology. We are fighting a battle against fundamentalism which denies biological evolution and global warming. The conservative movement embraces these people with open arms. In essence ignorance being touted as a virtue. The Republicans and Tea Party don't need me to stereotype them. They do a great job of that on their own. All the Republicans on the House Committee mentioned in the above articles voted in denial of the scientific fact that the Earth has warmed over the past century. How is that possible if they look at the issue from a scientific perspective? Its all politics, and most of the skeptic's talking points come directly from the political think tanks created for no other reason than to push a political agenda. Nothing to do with science, all politics. I listen to science, not politically tainted viewpoints. If you believe science is being used to advance a political agenda, then you too are a conspiracy theorist. Science is knowledge, if you are against that because it upsets your fundamental believe system, then your opinions are ideological and not scientific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 No way it would have broader ideological backing. AGW is an affront to the very basis of conservative thinking as are most all environmental issues. These people have fought every attempt to maintain a healthy environment from acid rain, DDT, ozone, first and second hand smoke and now AGW. Funny you should mention it. One of the proposals of the "warmists" is to blow sulphur dioxide into the sky. http://tvnz.co.nz/content/830969/425822.xhtml It wasn't log ago that the tree-huggers were all anti-nukes. Now they are wanting more nukes. Well that was until last week when we came very close to another nuclear meltdown... Now they're just plain lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Look, I'm not a republican, and I think they're doing this just to piss off the Dems.....but Political Denial? How can you be In denial over a Hypothesis? Those are the statements that need to stop now. I'm more interested in the science itself, not the politicians involved, stupid democrat-republican squabbles that end up f**king the country. The "science" behind the AGW hypothesis is like a giant balloon. A Large Balloon covering a vast area of the field/study, but completely Hollow on the inside as far as substance. Anyone claiming a Hypothesis to be "Proof" doesn't have a leg to stand on. It may be settled that CO2 is a GHG, but we have over-estimated the Climate-Sensitivity to CO2. There are not only factors that correlate better than CO2, but explain the warming in the Past as well, which CO2 does not. Past warmings of up to 3C were caused by increased solar influence, our estimations of solar today are incorect. CO2 is now up near 400PPM, and yet we're BELOW the Holocene Mean if anything is unprecedented about todays temps, is how cold they are compared to past interglacials! We are simply in a naturally occuring cycle, as have occured as a result of Solar Influence for all of time. Look at all the ups and downs...blips..etc, none related to CO2. This is why we do not call people "Denialists" over a Hypothesis that has been failing to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeatherRusty Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 Funny you should mention it. One of the proposals of the "warmists" is to blow sulphur dioxide into the sky. http://tvnz.co.nz/co...69/425822.xhtml It wasn't log ago that the tree-huggers were all anti-nukes. Now they are wanting more nukes. Well that was until last week when we came very close to another nuclear meltdown... Now they're just plain lost. Funny you should mention nuclear power. Here is a realistic scientific assessment concerning nuclear power and it's future as an energy source (SEE BELOW). People who look to science for their understanding of the risks and benefits involved in utilizing nuclear power are not lost, they are informed. What is wrong with caring for the Earth such that you must call people "tree-huggers"? Why is OK to be the only species which intentionally fouls it's own nest? Is it morally correct to drive to extinction by untold numbers the plants and animals of the land, sea and air? Is it not OK to want to preserve our air, water and land in a state which supports large biodiversity? Are these ideals compatable with continued, never ending human expansion and industrialization? Could it be that there is a better way into the future than 20th century technology? A group this tree-hugger belongs to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAwxman Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Saying that warming simply has not been occurring is just silly. Saying it is or isn't mostly due to human activity is a separate and unclear issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeatherRusty Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 Look, I'm not a republican, and I think they're doing this just to piss off the Dems.....but Political Denial? How can you be In denial over a Hypothesis? Those are the statements that need to stop now. I'm more interested in the science itself, not the politicians involved, stupid democrat-republican squabbles that end up f**king the country. The "science" behind the AGW hypothesis is like a giant balloon. A Large Balloon covering a vast area of the field/study, but completely Hollow on the inside as far as substance. Anyone claiming a Hypothesis to be "Proof" doesn't have a leg to stand on. It may be settled that CO2 is a GHG, but we have over-estimated the Climate-Sensitivity to CO2. There are not only factors that correlate better than CO2, but explain the warming in the Past as well, which CO2 does not. Past warmings of up to 3C were caused by increased solar influence, our estimations of solar today are incorect. CO2 is now up near 400PPM, and yet we're BELOW the Holocene Mean if anything is unprecedented about todays temps, is how cold they are compared to past interglacials! We are simply in a naturally occuring cycle, as have occured as a result of Solar Influence for all of time. Look at all the ups and downs...blips..etc, none related to CO2. This is why we do not call people "Denialists" over a Hypothesis that has been failing to this point. I am not arguing the science here. Like I said in the OP, I give up. The Republicans have stated on the record by way of a vote taken on a proposed amendment to their bill to rescind the EPA's authority to regulate greenhouse gases, that they deny any warming of the climate during the recent past. NOT AGW, although of course they also deny that too, but that it has warmed at all. They have taken a stand which totally disregards the scientific fact that the Earth has warmed. On top of that they intend to defund the EPA by 30% and also cut NASA's budget to put a monkey wrench into further research of climate. They have eliminated the funding going to U.S. representation in the IPCC. These people are waging war on science and the study of climate change in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacoman25 Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Today's republican politicians are not thinkers and doers, they are merely conduits for corporate and evangelical America. Throughout history, science has always been in the realm of liberal thinkers. The greatest "achievement" in the history of science was the Age of Enlightenment; an intellectual break from religion that gained momentum in the 1700s. Corporatism once gave us human slavery. Today, the top 400 Americans hold as much wealth as the lower 150 million combined. Human slavery is being replaced by financial slavery. For America's religious core, there is no greater threat than science and intellectualism. The bronze-age intellectualism of the Bible seems to be about as much as they care to know. These religious sheep are uncomfortable thinking on their own so they follow and obey their leaders; and the more charismatic the leader, the more drunken the religious followers become. Leave this website and head out onto the world wide web. From YouTube to countless blogs and websites there is a vast malignant world of pseudo-science. For every natural phenomenon (earthquake, volcano, solar, astronomy, weather/climate, etc.) there is a fantastic parade of "scientific lunacy." At least I can understand the corporatist purpose (profit.) But the religious purpose? Rejecting science simply because it challenges the Bible puts these people on par with Afghan goat herders. And let's not kid ourselves; the percentage of Americans with non-scientific or non-rational beliefs is staggering. The corporatists (secular) are fully aware the lunacy of the religious masses and take full advantage of them by promoting their philosophies in order to combat the rational secular world (a world that doesn't appreciate corporate slavery.) It's a vicious cycle; and we seem to be going nowhere. Hmmm....on second thought, the rational world actually seems to be losing. On a final note, let me remind people how damaging it is to say "religion is harmless." It most certainly is not! Just look at our Congress and our nation today. As Gore Vidal once said: "religion is the greatest plague to ever befall the western hemisphere." How can we properly deal with climate when we're still struggling with 19th Century evolution! This isn't the place for your anti-religious rants. Seriously, climate change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacoman25 Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Saying that warming simply has not been occurring is just silly. Saying it is or isn't mostly due to human activity is a separate and unclear issue. Agreed. It's also silly for the OP to basically state that Republicans don't believe the earth has been warming. Show me one statement where the Republican party denies the earth has been warming. I'm not a supporter of either political party, by the way. Or rather, I'm not staunchly Republican or Democrat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeatherRusty Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 Agreed. It's also silly for the OP to basically state that Republicans don't believe the earth has been warming. Show me one statement where the Republican party denies the earth has been warming. I'm not a supporter of either political party, by the way. Or rather, I'm not staunchly Republican or Democrat. Committee ranking Democrat Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) offered an amendment Tuesday that called on Congress to agree that climate change is occurring. The amendment failed on a party-line vote of 20-31. No Republicans voted for the amendment. The amendment says that "Congress accepts the scientific finding of the Environmental Protection Agency that 'warming of the climate system is unequivocal, as is now evident from observations of increases in global average air and ocean temperatures, widespread melting of snow and ice, and rising global average sea level.'" "This finding is so obviously correct that there should be no need to offer the amendment," Waxman said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakeEffectKing Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 The amendment was so vaguely written....no time reference for either...cause right now,over the last 6 months the "climate system" has been cooling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 RUSTY!!! 'warming of the climate system is unequivocal, as is now evident from observations of increases in global average air and ocean temperatures, widespread melting of snow and ice, and rising global average sea level.'" "This finding is so obviously correct that there should be no need to offer the amendment," Waxman said. That statement is a bunch of BS.... "the current warming is unequivocal? Are you kidding me man? "This finding is so obviously correct"........haha.....dude, its no wonder they scrapped the bill! I read through it, NO republican claimed the Earth hasn't warmed, I don't know where rusty got that from.....no one can deny the earth has warmed without being a laughing stock. I'm definitely not a republican, not at all...but their take on this issue makes much more sense IMO. The Issue here is the regulation of Greenhouse gases, which will cripple the economy with NO effect on "global warming"...assuming its due to human cause. They stated this themselves...and its laughable to claim a bill will "lower temperatures by 0.06C in 100yrs"....lol I mean really? Does anyone wonder why they rejected the bill? Cripple the Economy over a Hypothesis that has been failing to this point? The Bill wanted republicans to "accept the vast consensus and the FACT that the earth is warming due to humans"..........what the hell man? Neither of those statements ar true, it was a ridiculous bill to start with. Goodbye! Its gone. I'm not a republican, but the reason for regulating Greenhouse gases is based on reasoning that is complete speculation....and has a huge amount of scientific evidence against it. Republicans came up with this idea of a bill...doesn't look anti science to me. http://wattsupwithth...al-records-act/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeatherRusty Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 The amendment was so vaguely written....no time reference for either...cause right now,over the last 6 months the "climate system" has been cooling... I think they knew exactly what they were voting on since their goal is to gut climate science funding. They believe AGW is a hoax. They are now on record as denying climate change or global warming is even happening regardless of cause. Let's be fair, they are voting the party line with probably very little knowledge of the subject matter. They are lead by their ideology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacoman25 Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Committee ranking Democrat Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) offered an amendment Tuesday that called on Congress to agree that climate change is occurring. The amendment failed on a party-line vote of 20-31. No Republicans voted for the amendment. The amendment says that "Congress accepts the scientific finding of the Environmental Protection Agency that 'warming of the climate system is unequivocal, as is now evident from observations of increases in global average air and ocean temperatures, widespread melting of snow and ice, and rising global average sea level.'" "This finding is so obviously correct that there should be no need to offer the amendment," Waxman said. So you think that just because they didn't vote for the amendment that means none of them believe the earth has warmed? This is clearly a political issue and thread, about Democrats vs. Republicans, not about personal opinions on climate change. As Waxman inferred, the amendment was likely more about AGW insuations than anything necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Before we regulate GHG emissions over a hypothesis, lets get this bill passed first. http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/temperature-records-act-2010.pdf but No, democrats don't want this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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