Japan Nuclear Crisis Part II

[JoMo]

From Reuters:

http://live.reuters....pan_earthquake2

The U.S. NRC chairman tells Congress the NRC would recommend an evacuation area much larger than has taken place around Japan's reactors

More comments from the NRC chair, says spent fuel pool at Reactor 4 has no water, radiation levels are "extremely high"

More comments from the NRC Chairman, who says high radiation levels at reactor 4 may affect the ability to "take corrective measures"

[eyewall]

Dow is plummeting (Down 236 at last check) because of the Japan crisis.

[Dino]

This is unbelievable. I wish this was all just a bad dream.

For a comparison of evacuation area size I made a post at the beginning of the thread here : Evacuation Zone Comparison

[ThePhotoGuy]

1818: The US Environmental Protection Agency says it is increasing its monitoring of radiation along the western coast and Pacific territories, AP reports. However the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission has said it does not expect harmful levels to reach North America.

BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

[PhineasC]

1818: The US Environmental Protection Agency says it is increasing its monitoring of radiation along the western coast and Pacific territories, AP reports. However the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission has said it does not expect harmful levels to reach North America.

BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

If harmful levels of radiation ever manage to reach these shores, then Japan itself would be in serious trouble. This is all just FUD at this point.

[Bodhi Cove]

This is unbelievable. I wish this was all just a bad dream.

For a comparison of evacuation area size I made a post at the beginning of the thread here : Evacuation Zone Comparison

I wish the same.. And I'd be having to evac if CCNP were to have an issue like this.

[OSUmetstud]

I didn't know these spent fuel pools actually presented more danger in some respect since there is less containment than the reactor itself. No water along with holes in the roof is a big disaster.

[ThePhotoGuy]

1832: The AP news agency is quoting Tepco as saying a new power line is almost ready which could end the crisis. The disruption of power to the pumps which send coolant through the reactors is what led to their overheating.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

BBC

This is the first that I heard of them working on a new power line.

[JoMo]

1832: The AP news agency is quoting Tepco as saying a new power line is almost ready which could end the crisis. The disruption of power to the pumps which send coolant through the reactors is what led to their overheating.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-12307698

BBC

This is the first that I heard of them working on a new power line.

I wonder if they ever finished their road to get fire trucks there.

[Scott747]

This is actually good news though dated. Not sure why it isn't getting out there -

http://nei.cachefly.net/newsandevents/information-on-the-japanese-earthquake-and-reactors-in-that-region/

UPDATE AS OF 10:00 A.M. EDT, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 16:

News reports that high radiation levels led to the evacuation of all workers from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power station are not accurate. Workers were evacuated for about an hour but returned to the site to continue efforts to restore safe conditions at the plant.

Restoration of electrical power to the site was under way at the Daiichi plant as of 6:00 a.m. EDT Wednesday. A temporary cable was being connected between an off-site power line and Daiichi reactor 3. Off-site power has not been available at the site since the earthquake on March 11.

Reactors 1, 2 and 3 at the plant are being cooled with seawater. There is some level of uranium fuel damage at all three units, and containment structure damage is suspected at reactor 2.

Before the earthquake, reactor 4 had been in refueling and was completely defueled. Attempts to provide cooling water to the used fuel pool at reactor 4 by helicopter were not successful. Preparations are being made to inject water into the fuel storage pool using a high-capacity spray pump. There have been two fires inside the reactor containment building at reactor 4, but they have been extinguished. Although the reactor containment building at Unit 4 was damaged, the primary containment vessel remains intact.

[mempho]

One of the things to keep in mind here is that France makes reactors, and perhaps the Japanese didn't buy from the French. When someone is making a big noise regarding a disaster, it is always important to try to look at previous connections. just sayin'.

The reactors were designed by GE. Three scientists, who later became known as "the GE three" left over the design flaw that became apparent in the wake of the quake and tsunami.

[ThePhotoGuy]

1837: Gregory Jaczko, head of the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) has said there is no water left in the spent fuel pool in reactor four, adding: "We believe that radiation levels are extremely high." Mr Jaczko was speaking to Congress in Washington and it was not immediately clear where his information had come from.

BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

[Clinch Leatherwood]

I didn't know these spent fuel pools actually presented more danger in some respect since there is less containment than the reactor itself. No water along with holes in the roof is a big disaster.

I think it was the NYT a few days ago that indicated the first thing workers did when the quake hit was try to cool the containment pool at reactor 4. IE,they knew that was the biggest threat and were slow to react to the other 3 reactors because of the danger with the containment pools.

1832: The AP news agency is quoting Tepco as saying a new power line is almost ready which could end the crisis. The disruption of power to the pumps which send coolant through the reactors is what led to their overheating.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-12307698

BBC

This is the first that I heard of them working on a new power line.

A new power line isn't going ot fix the holes in the buildings, pools etc.

[cut]

The new power line is good news. That is an example of something learned on this board, not on the major outlets - at least not that I have seen. Kudos to this board.

[Witness Protection Program]

If harmful levels of radiation ever manage to reach these shores, then Japan itself would be in serious trouble.

(Sigh)

Not going to happen.

Some quick geography:

Chernobyl's significant impacts were limited to about 1000 miles at its longest plume (northward.)

Closest Alaskan island is 1800+ miles.

Closest part of the Alaskan mainland is 2700+ miles.

Closest part of Hawaii is about 3500 miles.

Closest part of the lower 48 states is more than 4500 miles.

[Clinch Leatherwood]

The reactors were designed by GE. Three scientists, who later became known as "the GE three" left over the design flaw that became apparent in the wake of the quake and tsunami.

Reactor 3 was made by Toshiba, Reactor 4 by Hitachi I believe, not GE. GE did make 1 and 2.

1837: Gregory Jaczko, head of the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) has said there is no water left in the spent fuel pool in reactor four, adding: "We believe that radiation levels are extremely high." Mr Jaczko was speaking to Congress in Washington and it was not immediately clear where his information had come from.

BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-12307698

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that we've done some passes with high end cameras so we have a better feel for what is going on. Disturbing that the NRC releases this information and not Tokyo but I have a hard time believing they are wrong.

[cut]

Of course in the time that it took me to type about optimism, it appears those hopes may be dashed!!!

[OSUmetstud]

This is actually good news though dated. Not sure why it isn't getting out there -

http://nei.cachefly....in-that-region/

UPDATE AS OF 10:00 A.M. EDT, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 16:

News reports that high radiation levels led to the evacuation of all workers from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power station are not accurate. Workers were evacuated for about an hour but returned to the site to continue efforts to restore safe conditions at the plant.

Restoration of electrical power to the site was under way at the Daiichi plant as of 6:00 a.m. EDT Wednesday. A temporary cable was being connected between an off-site power line and Daiichi reactor 3. Off-site power has not been available at the site since the earthquake on March 11.

Reactors 1, 2 and 3 at the plant are being cooled with seawater. There is some level of uranium fuel damage at all three units, and containment structure damage is suspected at reactor 2.

Before the earthquake, reactor 4 had been in refueling and was completely defueled. Attempts to provide cooling water to the used fuel pool at reactor 4 by helicopter were not successful. Preparations are being made to inject water into the fuel storage pool using a high-capacity spray pump. There have been two fires inside the reactor containment building at reactor 4, but they have been extinguished. Although the reactor containment building at Unit 4 was damaged, the primary containment vessel remains intact.

Yes, but from the diagrams I've been checking it appears the spent fuel pool (which is apparently dry) is outside of the primary containment vessel.

[SP]

The new power line is good news. That is an example of something learned on this board, not on the major outlets - at least not that I have seen. Kudos to this board.

its was breaking on the cable news channels at the same time

[Poimen]

Of course in the time that it took me to type about optimism, it appears those hopes may be dashed!!!

why?

[Ed Lizard]

its was breaking on the cable news channels at the same time

The cores had channels for the coolant to flow in between the fuel rods. If there has been significant warping/swelling/partial melting, there could be areas of the reactor that won't be properly cooled even if electricity is supplied and the main coolant pumps are run.

Still better than a firetruck, I'd guess.

[Ian]

The new power line is good news. That is an example of something learned on this board, not on the major outlets - at least not that I have seen. Kudos to this board.

the link came from a media source. the anti media stuff here is silly.

[cut]

the link came from a media source. the anti media stuff here is silly.

I am not being anti media - I work in it, it is just that this is moving so fast and I have several windows open, I guess I got out of sync with which outlet/blog had the latest news.

[Scott747]

Yes, but from the diagrams I've been checking it appears the spent fuel pool (which is apparently dry) is outside of the primary containment vessel.

True, but anything at all that helps at some of the other reactors is a positive at this point.

I mean the rush is to keep all the reactors from failing even further, magnifying the problem.

[PhineasC]

(Sigh)

Not going to happen.

Some quick geography:

Chernobyl's significant impacts were limited to about 1000 miles at its longest plume (northward.)

Closest Alaskan island is 1800+ miles.

Closest part of the Alaskan mainland is 2700+ miles.

Closest part of Hawaii is about 3500 miles.

Closest part of the lower 48 states is more than 4500 miles.

Yes, which is why I called it FUD. Read more.

[Scott747]

the link came from a media source. the anti media stuff here is silly.

Print has been solid.

On air. Horrible, imo. Granted I haven't watched much of it but when I have it has been terrible with how they butcher some of the data. I understand that with so many reactors it can be confusing but countless times when I've watched they continuously refer to the wrong reactors or specific issues of the reactors. Not to mention that when one of the channels has somebody that seems to be clearing up any misconceptions, or doing a great job of explaining the situation they are constantly cut off or have little time to explain.

[OSUmetstud]

True, but anything at all that helps at some of the other reactors is a positive at this point.

I mean the rush is to keep all the reactors from failing even further, magnifying the problem.

yes, for sure. Let's hope that the spent fuel doesn't catch fire and burn.

[Bodhi Cove]

Spent fuel pools contain more highly radioactive fuel than the reactor cores. And the spent fuel pools at all U.S. nuclear plants are located outside the reactor containment structure. When the spent fuel pools fill up, spent fuel is stored in concrete casks outside the plant. Thus, spent fuel is a softer target that could yield graver consequences than an aircraft crashing through the reactor containment structure.

What is the spent fuel pool?

The spent fuel pool is a 45-feet deep concrete pit that stores highly radioactive fuel assemblies after their removal from the reactor core. Water storage is required because spent fuel assemblies continue to emit considerable amounts of both heat and radiation for many years. The fuel pool water is continuously cooled to remove the heat produced by the spent fuel assemblies. Without cooling, the fuel pool water will heat up and boil. If the water boils or drains away, the spent fuel assemblies will overheat and either melt or catch on fire. NRC studies have estimated that many thousands of people living within 50 miles could die from the radiation released when spent fuel assemblies melt or catch on fire.

Where are the spent fuel pools located?

The spent fuel pools at nuclear power plants with pressurized water reactors are located in buildings adjacent to the reactor containment structures. Typically called the Fuel Handling Buildings, these structures are designed to withstand nature (e.g. earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, and snow storms) but not man (e.g., sabotage and accidental or intentional aircraft strikes). The Fuel Handling Buildings are basically standard, industrial-grade buildings (much like K-Mart but without the neon signs).

The spent fuel pools themselves are generally below ground level within the Fuel Handling Buildings. Consequently, it is less likely for water to drain out of the spent fuel pool when its floor or walls are damaged than if it were located above ground.

The spent fuel pools for nuclear power plants with boiling water reactors are located above ground in the building surrounding the primary reactor containment structure. This can make some boiling water reactors even more vulnerable. The reactor containment structure is often a steel-lined, reinforced concrete building whereas the spent fuel pool building is usually made simply of reinforced concrete.

An aircraft—or missile—would not need to completely level the fuel building to cause harm. It would merely need to crack the concrete wall or floor of the spent fuel pool and drain the water out. The spent fuel pool is designed to remain intact following an earthquake, but it is not designed to withstand aircraft impacts and explosive forces.

http://www.ucsusa.org/nuclear_power/nuclear_power_risk/sabotage_and_attacks_on_reactors/spent-reactor-fuel-security.html

Yes, the site is anti-nuc, but I found the building specs and info above enlightening in regards to what is currently going on.

[cut]

Print has been solid.

On air. Horrible, imo. Granted I haven't watched much of it but when I have it has been terrible with how they butcher some of the data. I understand that with so many reactors it can be confusing but countless times when I've watched they continuously refer to the wrong reactors or specific issues of the reactors. Not to mention that when one of the channels has somebody that seems to be clearing up any misconceptions, or doing a great job of explaining the situation they are constantly cut off or have little time to explain.

Keep in mind that this creates a "sweeps week" mentality on the broadcast news outlets. Fox vs. CNN vs. MS/CNBC , throw in the streamers (RT is a rising star in this arena) and they are scooping each other, to the detriment of facts. If you remember 9/11, you remember this phenomenon well.

[SP]

If harmful levels of radiation ever manage to reach these shores, then Japan itself would be in serious trouble. This is all just FUD at this point.

this