Japan Nuclear Crisis Part II

[bobbutts]

"iRobot, said it put four robots on a plane for Japan on Friday"

Japan Races to Restart Reactors’ Cooling System - Full article NYT

[OSUmetstud]

[OSUmetstud]

These people can't even use the correct terminology. What the hell is meant by Units 5 and 6 are "operable"? That's laughable. The definition of the word "operable" in the US (and most of the world but apprently not japan), means that safety-related systems, structures, and components are capable of performing their design basis functions. They couldn't possibly startup those plants and most of their ECCS is not functioning. Its difficult to even follow this story any more hearing the lack of precision coming from Japanese sources. I have to hope we're just losing something in the translation. They have 1 EDG running - thank god - supplying power to both units. At most they can get a couple of spent fuel pool pumps running and select emergency core cooling pumps at each unit (assumedly they have been able to cross-tie a U6 EDG to U5 via temporary cables as typically you don't have EDG's cross connected between redundant divisions at one plant - much less multiple plants but who knows. I'd guess temporary cables or connections, whatever it takes.

Since they seem to be reporting the west gate radiation readings over the past few days. We will get a better gauge in my opinion when the winds turn easterly over the next day or so. This reading has consistently been taken at this upwind location.

[ice1972]

You don't know that. There are people that die from exposure to direct sunlight.

http://en.wikipedia....rma_pigmentosum

I'm not saying people w/ XP are at risk. I'm just pointing out that if something simple as being outside can kill you, even minute traces of radiation may cause problems. Will it? Who knows.

For people to just dismiss this and say no one will get sick is a pretty cavalier attitude. I mean, you probably are correct. I would even say you are 99.9% most likely correct. But to me, that doesn't matter. It should still be 0.0%. For the plant to be having this many problems, it should never have been built in the first place.

Serious? I suppose then that the 9.0 quake and massive tsunami had nothing to do with it............and cavalier? Really? We are all exposed to radiation sources every day that are many more times higher than this plume from Japan.....the point here is that we shouldn't be worried about it......the media doesn't help......people believe anything in this country and buy into whatever is plastered across the TV or computer......common sense about risk is totally skewed and what we get is posts like yours.......brother......

[SP]

These people can't even use the correct terminology. What the hell is meant by Units 5 and 6 are "operable"? That's laughable. The definition of the word "operable" in the US (and most of the world but apprently not japan), means that safety-related systems, structures, and components are capable of performing their design basis functions. They couldn't possibly startup those plants and most of their ECCS is not functioning. Its difficult to even follow this story any more hearing the lack of precision coming from Japanese sources. I have to hope we're just losing something in the translation. They have 1 EDG running - thank god - supplying power to both units. At most they can get a couple of spent fuel pool pumps running and select emergency core cooling pumps at each unit (assumedly they have been able to cross-tie a U6 EDG to U5 via temporary cables as typically you don't have EDG's cross connected between redundant divisions at one plant - much less multiple plants but who knows. I'd guess temporary cables or connections, whatever it takes.

some of this might be translation.....

operable means pumps obviously.....where we are seeking specifics 99% of Japan's population is fine with it being operable.

[HoarfrostHubb]

"iRobot, said it put four robots on a plane for Japan on Friday"

Japan Races to Restart Reactors’ Cooling System - Full article NYT

Yeah, I posted this yesterday and heard an interview with their CEO (local company). He said they were specifically designed/altered for work there...

[Amped]

"iRobot, said it put four robots on a plane for Japan on Friday"

Japan Races to Restart Reactors’ Cooling System - Full article NYT

Iwould have thought Japanese robot technology was way ahead of ours.

[Rick G]

Not as different as you portray. When did the US government step in and take control of the gulf oil spill from BP? The problem is, the experts in each particular nuclear plant or oil platform don't work for the government they work for the companies. Sure the government has nuclear experts but that doesn't make them expert in any one facility.

The company workers know the history of problems reported or not. They know things like, pump A doesn't pump as well as pump B. We've had vibration issues in the past with pump C. Basically what is called "local knowledge". It can be a huge advantage and argues against replacing company operators with government workers in the midst of a crisis situation.

To be clear,the power company is calling the shots, not the Japanese Gov't. if this event was happening here, NRC would be all over this. The US did put a Disaster commander in charge of the BP spill Commander Adm. Thad Allen. All of BP's actions were cleared through his office.

[jburns]

To be clear,the power company is calling the shots, not the Japanese Gov't. if this event was happening here, NRC would be all over this. The US did put a Disaster commander in charge of the BP spill Commander Adm. Thad Allen. All of BP's actions were cleared through his office.

Don't you remember how almost everyone here was criticizing Allen for ineffectiveness and for allowing BP to basically ignore him?

[OSUmetstud]

Don't you remember how almost everyone here was criticizing Allen for ineffectiveness and for allowing BP to basically ignore him?

Yeah, I know everyone likes to make a big deal about the ineptitude of the Japanese, but there are a lot of parallels to the BP Oil Spill.

Who is in charge? BP or Obama?

Allegations of half-truths and secrecy

Ridiculous countermeasures that probably wouldn't work: junk shot/top shot vs. helicopters dropping water buckets

[jburns]

Yeah, I know everyone likes to make a big deal about the ineptitude of the Japanese, but there are a lot of parallels to the BP Oil Spill.

Who is in charge? BP or Obama?

Allegations of half-truths and secrecy

Ridiculous countermeasures that probably wouldn't work: junk shot/top shot vs. helicopters dropping water buckets

Exactly and not to mention that the Japanese are dealing with this at the same time they are dealing with what amounts to multiple Katrinas.

[aslkahuna]

To all of our experts who love to criticize-given what has happened there do YOU think you could do better? Also must remember that the western News(?) media and the US Media in particular have no real love for presenting the facts of the situation, just gets in the way of the hype. Also I feel that it's unfair to use Katrina as an example of what happened insofar as the natural events are concerned. Japan was hit by something which totally overwhelmed their preparations. Katrina was expected for years and everyone warned that what happened would happen. Katrina as a natural disaster was enhanced by political failure at all levels and failure to prepare or take heed. The Japanese tried but Nature dealt them a bad hand. Many though survived by doing what they had been told and practiced-the US has never been good in this regard.

Steve

[Mallow]

These people can't even use the correct terminology. What the hell is meant by Units 5 and 6 are "operable"? That's laughable. The definition of the word "operable" in the US (and most of the world but apprently not japan), means that safety-related systems, structures, and components are capable of performing their design basis functions. They couldn't possibly startup those plants and most of their ECCS is not functioning.

Uhhh... you bolded it so that it meant something completely different than what it said.

1421: Japan's nuclear safety agency has told a news conference that cooling systems at two of the six reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant are now operable, NHK reoprts. An emergency diesel generator at reactor 6 has resumed operation and a cooling pump at reactor 5 is confirmed to be usable.

[janetjanet998]

NHK World now reporting that temperature in pool 6 is down to 52°

[MJW155]

Serious? I suppose then that the 9.0 quake and massive tsunami had nothing to do with it............and cavalier? Really? We are all exposed to radiation sources every day that are many more times higher than this plume from Japan.....the point here is that we shouldn't be worried about it......the media doesn't help......people believe anything in this country and buy into whatever is plastered across the TV or computer......common sense about risk is totally skewed and what we get is posts like yours.......brother......

Please. It was built because of money. If it can't withstand a quake/tsunami, it shouldn't be built where it was built. And yes, people are having a cavilier attitude if they are assuming it won't harm humans over here. We don't know that it won't because it's too early to say otherwise. But the food supply is already being contaminated in Japan. There should be 0.0% radiation. Saying a small amount is OK because it can't harm humans is just a silly argument. It shouldn't be 0.0001%, it should be 0.0%. ZERO. Also, just because it won't harm Americans in the short run does not mean anyhting in the long run. Can those minute traces harm mircro-bacteria at the bottom of the food chain? If so, guess what? It can effect the rest of the food chain.

You seem to think I'm buying into this doom and gloom scenario. I'm not. But just because an official says it can't harm us doesn't mean it's true. See, I do this moronic thing called thinking. You have Japan saying it's safe outside of 12 miles, you have the US saying 50 miles. Obviously the US is more concerned about this than they are letting on. You also have people that are going to be effected by this psychologically. I'd rather take the wait and see approach before I assume that it can't harm US citizens. Will it? Probably not, I've said that numerous times. But I will never just assume so because that's what an expert on TV w/ an agenda told me. Call me crazy!

[LovintheWhiteFluff]

Is it me or has the news about the plant gone pretty much silent?

[johnc]

Is it me or has the news about the plant gone pretty much silent?

In the first couple of days things were blowing up and catching on fire left and right, but since then things have pretty much been status quo or unknown.

[LovintheWhiteFluff]

In the first couple of days things were blowing up and catching on fire left and right, but since then things have pretty much been status quo or unknown.

Well we haven't heard one word about radiation readings on a day the wind shifted towards the south.

[Ginx snewx]

To all of our experts who love to criticize-given what has happened there do YOU think you could do better? Also must remember that the western News(?) media and the US Media in particular have no real love for presenting the facts of the situation, just gets in the way of the hype. Also I feel that it's unfair to use Katrina as an example of what happened insofar as the natural events are concerned. Japan was hit by something which totally overwhelmed their preparations. Katrina was expected for years and everyone warned that what happened would happen. Katrina as a natural disaster was enhanced by political failure at all levels and failure to prepare or take heed. The Japanese tried but Nature dealt them a bad hand. Many though survived by doing what they had been told and practiced-the US has never been good in this regard.

Steve

No government in this world could handle this. I think most of the angst is with TEPCO, remember Exxon Valdez, same type of denial corporate wise.

[Dunkman]

Kyodo: NEWS ADVISORY: Self-Defense Forces begin water spraying at Fukushima's No. 4 reactor

[Mallow]

Please. It was built because of money. If it can't withstand a quake/tsunami, it shouldn't be built where it was built. And yes, people are having a cavilier attitude if they are assuming it won't harm humans over here. We don't know that it won't because it's too early to say otherwise. But the food supply is already being contaminated in Japan. There should be 0.0% radiation. Saying a small amount is OK because it can't harm humans is just a silly argument. It shouldn't be 0.0001%, it should be 0.0%. ZERO. Also, just because it won't harm Americans in the short run does not mean anyhting in the long run. Can those minute traces harm mircro-bacteria at the bottom of the food chain? If so, guess what? It can effect the rest of the food chain.

You seem to think I'm buying into this doom and gloom scenario. I'm not. But just because an official says it can't harm us doesn't mean it's true. See, I do this moronic thing called thinking. You have Japan saying it's safe outside of 12 miles, you have the US saying 50 miles. Obviously the US is more concerned about this than they are letting on. You also have people that are going to be effected by this psychologically. I'd rather take the wait and see approach before I assume that it can't harm US citizens. Will it? Probably not, I've said that numerous times. But I will never just assume so because that's what an expert on TV w/ an agenda told me. Call me crazy!

There's no such thing as zero radiation.

Saying we should have zero radiation is like saying we should have zero magnetic field. It's moronic.

[winterymix]

Don't you remember how almost everyone here was criticizing Allen for ineffectiveness and for allowing BP to basically ignore him?

Horsecrap.

I discussed it at length with Bozart and Bozart expounded on Allen's qualifications.

End of story.

[jburns]

There should be 0.0% radiation. Saying a small amount is OK because it can't harm humans is just a silly argument. It shouldn't be 0.0001%, it should be 0.0%.

Nothing is ever perfect. To require perfection before progressing is to forever remain where you are.

FWTW it is estimated that 25,000 people died building the Panama Canal. Would we even think about undertaking something that would likely cost 1/10 that many lives? I doubt it.

"According to hospital records, 5,609 lives were lost from disease and accidents during the American construction era. Adding the deaths during the French era would likely bring the total deaths to some 25,000 based on an estimate by Gorgas. However, the true number will never be known, since the French only recorded the deaths that occurred in hospital. "

[winterymix]

There should be 0.0% radiation. Saying a small amount is OK because it can't harm humans is just a silly argument. It shouldn't be 0.0001%, it should be 0.0%. ZERO.

Another person making posts without prerequisite knowledge.

Food has radiation in it.

It does.

Every food has some small amount of radioactivity in it. The common radionuclides in food are potassium 40 (⁴⁰K), radium 226 (²²⁶Ra) and uranium 238 (²³⁸U) and the associated progeny. Here is a table of some of the common foods and their levels of ⁴⁰K and ²²⁶Ra.

Banana3,5201

Brazil Nuts5,6001,000-7,000

Carrot3,4000.6-2

White Potatoes3,4001-2.5

Beer390---

Red Meat3,0000.5

Lima Bean raw4,6402-5

Drinking water---0-0.17

Ref: Handbook of Radiation Measurement and Protection, Brodsky, A. CRC Press 1978 and Environmental Radioactivity from Natural, Industrial and Military Sources, Eisenbud, M and Gesell T. Academic Press, Inc. 1997.

[winterymix]

The EPA tells us that radiation over the US is quiescent.

Daily Data Summary

Last updated: March 19, 2011 11:30 am EDT

As the Nuclear Regulatory Commission has said, we do not expect to see radiation at harmful levels reaching the U.S. from damaged Japanese nuclear power plants. As part of the federal government's continuing effort to make our activities and science transparent and available to the public, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) will continue to keep all RadNet data available in the current online database. EPA is working with its federal partners and has deployed additional monitors to Hawaii, Alaska, Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands.

As always, EPA is utilizing this existing nationwide radiation monitoring system, RadNet, which continuously monitors the nation's air and regularly monitors drinking water, milk and precipitation for environmental radiation. The RadNet online searchable database contains historical data of environmental radiation monitoring data from all fifty states and U.S. territories.

EPA will provide daily data summaries of our radiation air monitoring efforts. We will continue to keep all RadNet data available in the current online database.

March 19, 2011

As of 11:30am (EDT) EPA's RadNet radiation air monitors across the U.S. show typical fluctuations in background radiation levels. The levels detected are far below levels of concern.

As of 8:30am (EDT) EPA's RadNet radiation air monitors across the U.S. show typical fluctuations in background radiation levels. The levels detected are far below levels of concern.

March 18, 2011

As of 4:00pm (EDT) EPA's RadNet radiation air monitors across the U.S. show typical fluctuations in background radiation levels. The levels detected are far below levels of concern.

As of 12:00pm (EDT) EPA's RadNet radiation air monitors across the U.S. show typical fluctuations in background radiation levels. The levels detected are far below levels of concern.

March 17, 2011

As of 2:00pm (EDT) EPA's RadNet radiation air monitors across the U.S. show typical fluctuations in background radiation levels. The levels detected are far below levels of concern.

[jburns]

Another person making posts without prerequisite knowledge.

Food has radiation in it.

It does.

I knew it!! Besides water it looks like beer is the way to go.

[winterymix]

I knew it!! Besides water it looks like beer is the way to go.

This entire thread is distilled down to "whom to believe"?

I'll chose EPA first

and Japan a distant second; they are still among our closest allies.

I will go with phineas and mallow as well, if they say the US will experience no concerning radiation

increase, they have the science to back it up.

[Dunkman]

Reuters: Light easterly winds forecast near Japan nuclear plant.

I guess those west gate readings should be telling now if by some miracle they actually release them.

[MJW155]

There's no such thing as zero radiation.

Saying we should have zero radiation is like saying we should have zero magnetic field. It's moronic.

I didn't say that. I said there should be zero radiation in the US because of a nuclear plant in Japan.

[Kmlwx]

I didn't say that. I said there should be zero radiation in the US because of a nuclear plant in Japan.

This is also not true...

There is background radiation all over. No matter where you are you're always getting tiny amounts of radiation - obviously not harmful to health but still measurable. There's not really "zero radiation"

And why should there be zero? Stuff gets transported by winds...it's very tiny though.