jburns Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Odd, since you didn't express any indignation to post #780, which suggested some Japanese should commit suicide out of shame for turning down this 'offer': Enough of this. We could have avoided all this if you would just learn how to read for content. At no time in the post to which you refer did the writer suggest some Japanese should commit suicide. He cited the cultural history that could lead to someone taking their own life out of shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Ahhh... I see. So they're injecting water from a fire hose but not able to increase the water level? I wonder how that could be? Could it be boiling off that quickly? Maybe a leak somewhere? Not sure. The pressure was 75 kpa in the containment vessel in the previous report. It has risen to 115 in reactor #2 in the latest report at the same time water has fallen 400mm. Reactor #3 remains pretty unchanged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkman Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Pretty interesting given the offshore winds: 0428: Steve Herman, who works for Voice of America, tweets: "If I'm doing math right the people in Fukushima city absorbing equiv. of 1.75 chest x-rays daily at current rate." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Rent Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 Most fire pumps are going to be pushing out 1250GPM max. At least in America. Thats also under ideal conditions (well maintained, abundant water supply, low friction loss) I don't know how that relates to the capacity for coolant though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Marusak Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Not sure. The pressure was 75 kpa in the containment vessel in the previous report. It has risen to 115 in reactor #2 in the latest report at the same time water has fallen 400mm. Reactor #3 remains pretty unchanged. call me a bit dumb for not following this thread as much back as i should. but those pressures you cited, those are total pressure, or the pressure on top of the local atmospheric pressure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 call me a bit dumb for not following this thread as much back as i should. but those pressures you cited, those are total pressure, or the pressure on top of the local atmospheric pressure? Not sure it says unless (D/W) indicates something?, the only reason I know about the water level is because of the note below which says it's the distance from the top of the fuel. On the report before the 75 kpa one, it was 40. Latest: http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/files/en20110318-1.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkman Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 NEWS ADVISORY: Amano urges Japan for closer contact with IAEA on nuke crisis (13:32) (I'm assuming everyone knows this is from Kyodo by now) How many times has the IAEA begged for more information? It seems especially bad given the director begging for information is Japanese. They have stopped giving information to people who have gone to the press with it. I hope their strategy of hiding it until they can fix it then pretend it was never that bad works. I really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternLI Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Most fire pumps are going to be pushing out 1250GPM max. At least in America. Thats also under ideal conditions (well maintained, abundant water supply, low friction loss) I don't know how that relates to the capacity for coolant though. I actually am a firefighter where I live, our pumpers are rated for 1500GPM (most between 1250 - 1500GPM). Our pumpers also have 750 Gal water tanks, my understanding is most are between 500 - 750. What you have really depends on the needs of the community being served, well at least here anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Marusak Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Not sure it says unless (D/W) indicates something?, the only reason I know about the water level is because of the note below which says it's the distance from the top of the fuel. On the report before the 75 kpa one, it was 40. Latest: http://www.nisa.meti...n20110318-1.pdf just taking a quick read of that, it looks like on top of atmospheric pressure. but if there's a nuke plant worker here that can clarify that, i'm sure he/she could clarify that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott747 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 ABC reporter in Tokyo - http://twitter.com/AkikoFujita Japanese Defense Ministry: No further helicopter water drops planned. No reason given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkman Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Reuters News Flash: FLASH: Japan nuclear operator says not impossible to encase reactors with concrete, but priority is cooling It's not exactly news, but given the lack of information coming out I'm posting whatever scraps I can find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott747 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I believe this is live footage. You can see them spraying water into #3. http://www.ustwrap.info/multi/nhk-gtv::yokosonews::tbstv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkman Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Yeah they are live on NHK showing the fire engines shooting at the #3 reactor. It looks like one truck's worth of spraying did enough to generate steam for about 2 minutes. I mean, for all we know, it's just cooling the steel frame of the building. West gate is 1km west (obviously) of the reactors. I hadn't heard that before, gives a little more idea of what the measurements from there mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott747 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Somebody translating the NHK coverage... Rods are exposed in the fuel pool of #3. Can't confirm so take it lightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkman Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Yeah from the diagrams of the reactors I've seen it looks like all the spraying is concentrated on where the spent fuel rod pool would be in reactor #3. And they just now confirmed that on the broadcast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott747 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Had they announced earlier that they were discontinuing the helicopter attempts, or was that info I passed along new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Had they announced earlier that they were discontinuing the helicopter attempts, or was that info I passed along new? It was announced during either the TEPCO or Edano press conference, I forget which... or somewhere around that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkman Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 This actually does look to be somewhat useful (unlike the helicopters which were just a joke.) However, it seems like they need to be doing this around the clock to make much of a dent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 in the live shots you could also see smoke/steam coming out of 2 on the left hand side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinch Leatherwood Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I've been removed from the situation tonight. Reading kyodo and other sites before logging in I'd have the impression it was getting under control. Reading what you guys are posting.....just a ticking time bomb. Sad stuff, I hope they are getting it under control but if the rods are exposed - man they are lucky this isn't so much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 BREAKING NEWS: IAEA chief asks Japan to cooperate with int'l community (14:45) BREAKING NEWS: IAEA team to monitor radiation near Fukushima nuke plant: IAEA chief (14:44) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 #4 Inside the building, a green-painted crane, which is normally used to move the fuel rods, caught the daylight flooding into the hall. Beneath the crane, just out of shot, is the pool holding the fuel rods, which should contain water 45ft deep but which has now boiled dry. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8389415/Japan-nuclear-plant-exposed-to-the-elements-nuclear-fuel-in-meltdown.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkman Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 They were supposed to do 7 rounds but they did 3 then have apparently suspended it. I can only assume because of a spike in radiation levels, although they may be going in to test before continuing or something and plan to start back in a bit. And yeah messenger, they have literally done nothing so I cannot possibly understand why they think things are getting better. Piecing comments together, the best I can figure is they are simply trying to prevent the situation from getting completely out of control until they can restore power and hopefully have enough working equipment still in the reactors to bring the situation under control. Why do they think building which look completely destroy will have working electrical and water systems? I have no idea, and no one has commented on that at all as far as I know. They have simply put out schedules as to when they hope to have power restored to certain reactors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Rent Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 #4 Inside the building, a green-painted crane, which is normally used to move the fuel rods, caught the daylight flooding into the hall. Beneath the crane, just out of shot, is the pool holding the fuel rods, which should contain water 45ft deep but which has now boiled dry. http://www.telegraph...n-meltdown.html Painted, or glowing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinch Leatherwood Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 #4 Inside the building, a green-painted crane, which is normally used to move the fuel rods, caught the daylight flooding into the hall. Beneath the crane, just out of shot, is the pool holding the fuel rods, which should contain water 45ft deep but which has now boiled dry. http://www.telegraph...n-meltdown.html This was my fear when they said they'd restore power. If my house is destroyed restoring power to my street doesn't help much and it might be an analogy for this situation. Someone will still have to kill themselves in re-flooding those pools, someone else maybe will have to do the same to encase it in concrete. They were supposed to do 7 rounds but they did 3 then have apparently suspended it. I can only assume because of a spike in radiation levels, although they may be going in to test before continuing or something and plan to start back in a bit. And yeah messenger, they have literally done nothing so I cannot possibly understand why they think things are getting better. Piecing comments together, the best I can figure is they are simply trying to prevent the situation from getting completely out of control until they can restore power and hopefully have enough working equipment still in the reactors to bring the situation under control. Why do they think building which look completely destroy will have working electrical and water systems? I have no idea, and no one has commented on that at all as far as I know. They have simply put out schedules as to when they hope to have power restored to certain reactors. I think what's puzzling is nobody really understands what will happen from here. Assuming the containment is shot AND the rods are exposed...someone should be able to answer what the outcome is. Maybe that's why all the foreign nations are bailing. Are the Japenese just buying time? Are they buying time to design / test a solution? They're a country full of great engineers/problems solvers for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hailstorm Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 That 300 Sv per hour reading during the Chernobyl disaster according to Wkipedia is so brutal and crippling to even ponder about. If someone was exposed to that much radiation in just over a minute, death would be a certainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snywx Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 That 300 Sv per hour reading during the Chernobyl disaster according to Wkipedia is so brutal and crippling to even ponder about. If someone was exposed to that much radiation in just over a minute, death would be a certainty. Awesome documentary of the scientists who went back in months after the disaster to check on the condition of the nuclear fuel. They actually went inside the sarcophagus. Measurements were at one point 500 roentgens!!!!! Its a 5 part documentary with each part about 10 mins long.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KeSXMTzt6M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott747 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I keep wondering why Jazcko is almost certain that the fuel pool in #4 is severly damaged or empty. Just came across this write up and it's the first I've heard about 'American contractors' on the scene. Now the only way this makes sense is if these 'contractors' were on site after the explosion of #4 to asses any damage, not during the earthquake and tsunami. http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-japan-quake-wrapup-20110318,0,2262753.story U.S. government nuclear experts believe a spent fuel pool at Japan's crippled Fukushima reactor complex has a breach in the wall or floor, a situation that creates a major obstacle to refilling the pool with cooling water and keeping dangerous levels of radiation from escaping. That assessment by U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission officials is based on the sequence of events since the earthquake and information provided by key American contractors who were in the plant at the time, said government officials familiar with the evaluation. It was compelling evidence, they said, that the wall of the No. 4 reactor pool has a significant hole or crack. The French claim there is water in both #3 and #4 fuel pools but boiling. Water drops missed for the most part but did enough to keep things from deteriorating more. http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/03/17/did-nrcs-jaczko-misspeak/ The French agency was not sanguine. Its statements, in French, said the pools in both reactors were boiling. Much of the four water drops –seven and a half tons each–missed their mark but appeared to have been successful enough to hold back a worsening situation for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkman Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 From Reuters The crisis at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is a "grave and serious", Yukiya Amano, head of the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog, says. Amano returned to his native Japan and says he will not visit the plant, only going in its general direction, owing to radiation. And this from the BBC 0715: Some more news on the progress of the cooling operation:Japan's Daily Yomiuritweets: "SDF says "We think got water on the main part today" and "Troops doing the work only absorbed a few millisieverts at most." ." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mempho Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Awesome documentary of the scientists who went back in months after the disaster to check on the condition of the nuclear fuel. They actually went inside the sarcophagus. Measurements were at one point 500 roentgens!!!!! Its a 5 part documentary with each part about 10 mins long.. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=0KeSXMTzt6M Interesting that the scientists are concerned that there might be "a second accident" at Chernobyl. The word "Chernobyl" in Ukrainian is literally translated as "wormwood"....a few of you will look that up and immediately shudder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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