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Japan Nuclear Crisis Part II


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Odd, since you didn't express any indignation to post #780, which suggested some Japanese should commit suicide out of shame for turning down this 'offer':

Enough of this.

We could have avoided all this if you would just learn how to read for content. At no time in the post to which you refer did the writer suggest some Japanese should commit suicide. He cited the cultural history that could lead to someone taking their own life out of shame.

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Ahhh... I see. So they're injecting water from a fire hose but not able to increase the water level? I wonder how that could be? Could it be boiling off that quickly? Maybe a leak somewhere?

Not sure.

The pressure was 75 kpa in the containment vessel in the previous report. It has risen to 115 in reactor #2 in the latest report at the same time water has fallen 400mm. Reactor #3 remains pretty unchanged.

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Not sure.

The pressure was 75 kpa in the containment vessel in the previous report. It has risen to 115 in reactor #2 in the latest report at the same time water has fallen 400mm. Reactor #3 remains pretty unchanged.

call me a bit dumb for not following this thread as much back as i should. but those pressures you cited, those are total pressure, or the pressure on top of the local atmospheric pressure?

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call me a bit dumb for not following this thread as much back as i should. but those pressures you cited, those are total pressure, or the pressure on top of the local atmospheric pressure?

Not sure it says unless (D/W) indicates something?, the only reason I know about the water level is because of the note below which says it's the distance from the top of the fuel.

On the report before the 75 kpa one, it was 40.

Latest:

http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/files/en20110318-1.pdf

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NEWS ADVISORY: Amano urges Japan for closer contact with IAEA on nuke crisis (13:32) (I'm assuming everyone knows this is from Kyodo by now)

How many times has the IAEA begged for more information? It seems especially bad given the director begging for information is Japanese. They have stopped giving information to people who have gone to the press with it. I hope their strategy of hiding it until they can fix it then pretend it was never that bad works. I really do.

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Most fire pumps are going to be pushing out 1250GPM max. At least in America. Thats also under ideal conditions (well maintained, abundant water supply, low friction loss) I don't know how that relates to the capacity for coolant though.

I actually am a firefighter where I live, our pumpers are rated for 1500GPM (most between 1250 - 1500GPM). Our pumpers also have 750 Gal water tanks, my understanding is most are between 500 - 750. What you have really depends on the needs of the community being served, well at least here anyway.

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Not sure it says unless (D/W) indicates something?, the only reason I know about the water level is because of the note below which says it's the distance from the top of the fuel.

On the report before the 75 kpa one, it was 40.

Latest:

http://www.nisa.meti...n20110318-1.pdf

just taking a quick read of that, it looks like on top of atmospheric pressure. but if there's a nuke plant worker here that can clarify that, i'm sure he/she could clarify that.

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Yeah they are live on NHK showing the fire engines shooting at the #3 reactor.

It looks like one truck's worth of spraying did enough to generate steam for about 2 minutes. I mean, for all we know, it's just cooling the steel frame of the building.

West gate is 1km west (obviously) of the reactors. I hadn't heard that before, gives a little more idea of what the measurements from there mean.

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I've been removed from the situation tonight. Reading kyodo and other sites before logging in I'd have the impression it was getting under control. Reading what you guys are posting.....just a ticking time bomb.

Sad stuff, I hope they are getting it under control but if the rods are exposed - man they are lucky this isn't so much worse.

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#4

reactor4_1850941b.jpg

Inside the building, a green-painted crane, which is normally used to move the fuel rods, caught the daylight flooding into the hall.

Beneath the crane, just out of shot, is the pool holding the fuel rods, which should contain water 45ft deep but which has now boiled dry.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8389415/Japan-nuclear-plant-exposed-to-the-elements-nuclear-fuel-in-meltdown.html

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They were supposed to do 7 rounds but they did 3 then have apparently suspended it. I can only assume because of a spike in radiation levels, although they may be going in to test before continuing or something and plan to start back in a bit.

And yeah messenger, they have literally done nothing so I cannot possibly understand why they think things are getting better. Piecing comments together, the best I can figure is they are simply trying to prevent the situation from getting completely out of control until they can restore power and hopefully have enough working equipment still in the reactors to bring the situation under control. Why do they think building which look completely destroy will have working electrical and water systems? I have no idea, and no one has commented on that at all as far as I know. They have simply put out schedules as to when they hope to have power restored to certain reactors.

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#4

Inside the building, a green-painted crane, which is normally used to move the fuel rods, caught the daylight flooding into the hall.

Beneath the crane, just out of shot, is the pool holding the fuel rods, which should contain water 45ft deep but which has now boiled dry.

http://www.telegraph...n-meltdown.html

Painted, or glowing? :D

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#4

Inside the building, a green-painted crane, which is normally used to move the fuel rods, caught the daylight flooding into the hall.

Beneath the crane, just out of shot, is the pool holding the fuel rods, which should contain water 45ft deep but which has now boiled dry.

http://www.telegraph...n-meltdown.html

This was my fear when they said they'd restore power. If my house is destroyed restoring power to my street doesn't help much and it might be an analogy for this situation. Someone will still have to kill themselves in re-flooding those pools, someone else maybe will have to do the same to encase it in concrete.

They were supposed to do 7 rounds but they did 3 then have apparently suspended it. I can only assume because of a spike in radiation levels, although they may be going in to test before continuing or something and plan to start back in a bit.

And yeah messenger, they have literally done nothing so I cannot possibly understand why they think things are getting better. Piecing comments together, the best I can figure is they are simply trying to prevent the situation from getting completely out of control until they can restore power and hopefully have enough working equipment still in the reactors to bring the situation under control. Why do they think building which look completely destroy will have working electrical and water systems? I have no idea, and no one has commented on that at all as far as I know. They have simply put out schedules as to when they hope to have power restored to certain reactors.

I think what's puzzling is nobody really understands what will happen from here. Assuming the containment is shot AND the rods are exposed...someone should be able to answer what the outcome is. Maybe that's why all the foreign nations are bailing. Are the Japenese just buying time? Are they buying time to design / test a solution? They're a country full of great engineers/problems solvers for sure.

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That 300 Sv per hour reading during the Chernobyl disaster according to Wkipedia is so brutal and crippling to even ponder about. If someone was exposed to that much radiation in just over a minute, death would be a certainty. :(

Awesome documentary of the scientists who went back in months after the disaster to check on the condition of the nuclear fuel. They actually went inside the sarcophagus. Measurements were at one point 500 roentgens!!!!! Its a 5 part documentary with each part about 10 mins long.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KeSXMTzt6M

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I keep wondering why Jazcko is almost certain that the fuel pool in #4 is severly damaged or empty. Just came across this write up and it's the first I've heard about 'American contractors' on the scene. Now the only way this makes sense is if these 'contractors' were on site after the explosion of #4 to asses any damage, not during the earthquake and tsunami.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-japan-quake-wrapup-20110318,0,2262753.story

U.S. government nuclear experts believe a spent fuel pool at Japan's crippled Fukushima reactor complex has a breach in the wall or floor, a situation that creates a major obstacle to refilling the pool with cooling water and keeping dangerous levels of radiation from escaping.

That assessment by U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission officials is based on the sequence of events since the earthquake and information provided by key American contractors who were in the plant at the time, said government officials familiar with the evaluation. It was compelling evidence, they said, that the wall of the No. 4 reactor pool has a significant hole or crack.

The French claim there is water in both #3 and #4 fuel pools but boiling. Water drops missed for the most part but did enough to keep things from deteriorating more.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/03/17/did-nrcs-jaczko-misspeak/

The French agency was not sanguine. Its statements, in French, said the pools in both reactors were boiling. Much of the four water drops –seven and a half tons each–missed their mark but appeared to have been successful enough to hold back a worsening situation for now.

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From Reuters

The crisis at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is a "grave and serious", Yukiya Amano, head of the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog, says. Amano returned to his native Japan and says he will not visit the plant, only going in its general direction, owing to radiation.

And this from the BBC

0715: Some more news on the progress of the cooling operation:Japan's Daily Yomiuritweets: "SDF says "We think got water on the main part today" and "Troops doing the work only absorbed a few millisieverts at most." ."

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Awesome documentary of the scientists who went back in months after the disaster to check on the condition of the nuclear fuel. They actually went inside the sarcophagus. Measurements were at one point 500 roentgens!!!!! Its a 5 part documentary with each part about 10 mins long.. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=0KeSXMTzt6M

Interesting that the scientists are concerned that there might be "a second accident" at Chernobyl. The word "Chernobyl" in Ukrainian is literally translated as "wormwood"....a few of you will look that up and immediately shudder.

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