SP Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 sounds like instead of dumping water.....they might soon be dumping sand and concrete from the air.....and instead of pumping water.....concrete pump cranes might do..... hey....how far to their arms extend? could you use them for water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 When they say the highest recorded radiation so far they must mean in a certain location. Where is it? The control room? The site boundary? There was already 400 mSV/hr. recorded near reactor 3 a few days ago and 89 mSV/hr. recorded from the helicopter dropping water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 When they say the highest recorded radiation so far they must mean in a certain location. Where is it? The control room? The site boundary? There was already 400 mSV/hr. recorded near reactor 3 a few days ago and 89 mSV/hr. recorded from the helicopter dropping water. 20msv equal 2 rem per HOUR, here are DOE limits http://www.jlab.org/div_dept/train/rad_guide/dose.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 When they say the highest recorded radiation so far they must mean in a certain location. Where is it? The control room? The site boundary? There was already 400 mSV/hr. recorded near reactor 3 a few days ago and 89 mSV/hr. recorded from the helicopter dropping water. It was "near where workers were trying to reestablish electrical power" -- wherever the heck that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 20msv equal 2 rem per HOUR, here are DOE limits http://www.jlab.org/...guide/dose.html right...the annual legal limit for these workers is now 250 mSV or 25 rem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhi Cove Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 It was "near where workers were trying to reestablish electrical power" -- wherever the heck that is. Near Unit 2. (the No. 2 reactor's containment vessel suffered damage to its pressure-suppression chamber at the bottom.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 right...the annual legal limit for these workers is now 250 mSV or 25 rem. God bless them and their families. My heart is heavy with the loss of all the people in Japan over 16500 total missing and dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhi Cove Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 March 18, 2011 Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency Seismic Damage Information (the 28th Release) (As of 17:30 March 17th, 2011) http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/files/en20110318-1.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 March 18, 2011 Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency Seismic Damage Information (the 28th Release) (As of 17:30 March 17th, 2011) http://www.nisa.meti...n20110318-1.pdf Well compared to the last report, water dropped a slight amount in #1 and a pretty big amount (400) in #2. Pressure came up in #2's containment vessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 just for context Approximate radiation levels near Chernobyl reactor 4 and its fragments, shortly after explosion are reported to be 10–300 Sv/hr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Well compared to the last report, water dropped a slight amount in #1 and a pretty big amount (400) in #2. Pressure came up in #2's containment vessel. last thing we need is another hydrogen pop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Torchey Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Great to see worst case "scare tactic" scenarios not being realized, tough situation, but becoming obvious it will not be a global and probably not even regional disaster. Meanwhile the pain and suffering continues from the real tragedy, the tsunami and earthquake, God bless the people of Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amped Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 ^ Well hopefully the worst doesn't happen. But as someone said earlier were still in the fog. I sense some drunk sarcasm. from a certain Fairfield poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 With full gear on at the current rad levels workers can not get within 80 meters of the places they need to get to. That's the key, if rad levels continue, it is impossible to solve the biggest issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Well the good news is that it looks like they're getting water into the reactor vessels (1, 2 and 3) at least. I didn't realize they were able to accomplish that. That's according to that report posted above, unless I misunderstand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 So 20 workers have possibly been treated for radiation sickness but the "legal" limited was raised to 250 mSV/year. A disconnect? From what I've read, radiation sicknesses does not typically appear until higher levels than 250 mSV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Symptoms of acute radiation (within one day):[16] 0 – 0.25 Sv (0 - 250 mSv): None 0.25 – 1 Sv (250 - 1000 mSv): Some people feel nausea and loss of appetite; bone marrow, lymph nodes, spleen damaged. 1 – 3 Sv (1000 - 3000 mSv): Mild to severe nausea, loss of appetite, infection; more severe bone marrow, lymph node, spleen damage; recovery probable, not assured. 3 – 6 Sv (3000 - 6000 mSv): Severe nausea, loss of appetite; hemorrhaging, infection, diarrhea, peeling of skin, sterility; death if untreated. 6 – 10 Sv (6000 - 10000 mSv): Above symptoms plus central nervous system impairment; death expected. Above 10 Sv (10000 mSv): Incapacitation and death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witness Protection Program Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Hadn't seen this posted...oops.... 2220: Japan turned down an earlier US offer to provide technical support for cooling fuel rods at nuclear reactors hit by a massive earthquake and tsunami, a Japanese newspaper said on Friday, reports AFP. 2226: The Yomiuri Shimbun newspaper, quoting a senior official of the ruling Democratic Party of Japan, said the US made the offer immediately after the disaster damaged Fukushima No 1 nuclear plant. According to the unnamed senior official, US support was based on dismantling the troubled reactors run by Tokyo Electric Power (TEPCO) some 250 km (155 miles) northeast of Tokyo. However, the government and TEPCO thought the cooling system could be restored by themselves, the report said. So the Obama Admin's first response was a conditional offer (bordering on extortion?) that they'd only help if Japan agreed to shut down a nuclear plant (pre-explosions) that the country might need for recovery? Politics and anti-nuke ideology ahead of charity to one of our key allies? Not enough info from that one base article and quotes to assume this interpretation, nor if it was Japan that erred in not agreeing to such an offer. So far it appears that in the early hours of the nuke plant crisis it was not a foregone conclusion that efforts to restart the cooling process would fail. Recall the timeline: earthquake on Friday, by Saturday morning Sec of State Hillary Clinton said the US was flying coolant in to Japan, but in the afternoon the story oddly changed to nothing was flown in, with some political websites mocking Clinton for a supposed misstep. Could explain why in the last few days leaks have come out that she is furious with the admin (though Libya is a part of that) and her terse interview where she said she wouldn't return for another term in the admin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkman Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I am so tired of people espousing their political opinions and lobbing guilt trips in this thread. It's completely ridiculous, try to control yourself. No one cares what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtRosen Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 So 20 workers have possibly been treated for radiation sickness but the "legal" limited was raised to 250 mSV/year. A disconnect? From what I've read, radiation sicknesses does not typically appear until higher levels than 250 mSV. For further context, 1 Sv = 1000 mSv (millisieverts). Death can occur at 30 Sv or 30,000 mSV. The highest radiation we have seen is 400 mSV/hour. This was at reactor #3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtRosen Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Symptoms of acute radiation (within one day):[16] 0 – 0.25 Sv (0 - 250 mSv): None 0.25 – 1 Sv (250 - 1000 mSv): Some people feel nausea and loss of appetite; bone marrow, lymph nodes, spleen damaged. 1 – 3 Sv (1000 - 3000 mSv): Mild to severe nausea, loss of appetite, infection; more severe bone marrow, lymph node, spleen damage; recovery probable, not assured. 3 – 6 Sv (3000 - 6000 mSv): Severe nausea, loss of appetite; hemorrhaging, infection, diarrhea, peeling of skin, sterility; death if untreated. 6 – 10 Sv (6000 - 10000 mSv): Above symptoms plus central nervous system impairment; death expected. Above 10 Sv (10000 mSv): Incapacitation and death. Odd. Wikipedia had different levels. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_poisoning#Exposure_levels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacindc Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 The highest radiation we have seen is 400 mSV/hour. This was at reactor #3. I'd amend this to say "the highest radiation the Japanese have *reported*". Big difference. They're clearly withholding the higher numbers right by the reactors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkman Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 They pretty much look the same to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baroclinic_instability Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Stay on topic with relevant posts please or you will be 5-posted with no warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witness Protection Program Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I am so tired of people espousing their political opinions and lobbing guilt trips in this thread. It's completely ridiculous, try to control yourself. No one cares what you think. Odd, since you didn't express any indignation to post #780, which suggested some Japanese should commit suicide out of shame for turning down this 'offer': I knew about the first, but not the second ( the reason for declining the offer.) That's not a "oops." That decision has become a shame (and loss of honor) inducing decision which could lead to suicide. The cultural heritage of suicide as a noble tradition still has some resonance. While being investigated for an expenses scandal, Cabinet minister Toshikatsu Matsuoka took his life in 2007. The governor of Tokyo, Shintaro Ishihara, described him as a "true samurai" for preserving his honour. I'm just pointing out that such blame immediately thrown at the Japanese for turning down the 'offer' may be misdirected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Odd. Wikipedia had different levels. http://en.wikipedia....Exposure_levels mine are wiki as well reading up on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sievert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Thunder Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Odd. Wikipedia had different levels. http://en.wikipedia....Exposure_levels I guess the 50-100% mortality rate WITH medical care at 6-8 sieverts on that chart is irrelevant. It certainly doesn't take 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkman Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Odd, since you didn't express any indignation to post #780, which suggested some Japanese should commit suicide out of shame for turning down this 'offer': I'm just pointing out that such blame immediately thrown at the Japanese for turning down the 'offer' may be misdirected. 1) I was watching basketball, didn't see it, obviously that's ridiculous 2) I agree. In hindsight it was obviously a horrible mistake, but I can see where they could never have imagined this happening. I mean, at the Daini plant, they had a cooling failure in 3 of the reactors and were able to restore the cooling to all 3 before anything serious happened and they are all in cold shutdown now. There's no guarantee our plan would have worked any better than this one has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Well the good news is that it looks like they're getting water into the reactor vessels (1, 2 and 3) at least. I didn't realize they were able to accomplish that. That's according to that report posted above, unless I misunderstand. The - is below the top of the rods I believe? Previous report had -1400 on reactor 2. The latest report had -1800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 The - is below the top of the rods I believe? Previous report had -1400 on reactor 2. The latest report had -1800. Ahhh... I see. So they're injecting water from a fire hose but not able to increase the water level? I wonder how that could be? Could it be boiling off that quickly? Maybe a leak somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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