HoarfrostHubb Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I keep thinking of goofy ways they could get water to the tops of the buildings without exposing the workers too much. Some zany ideas (some of which I think people have mentioned) 1) heavily shielded ladder fire trucks that have cannons at the tops of the ladders 2) tethered balloons with hoses - tethers can be adjusted from a "safe" distance to position the balloon 3) remotely operated airships carrying hoses (bigger versions of what fly around indoor arenas) If the Russians could build remotely operated bulldozers 25 years ago, surely the Japanese could invent some solution...heck send in a bunch of those Asimo robots with buckets of water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 According to the Yomiuri newspaper, the water spraying exercise conducted from the ground by special trucks on reactor three (to fill the containment pools?) has been completed. They will wait to see the results. so they finished the operation after the had to stop becuase of high radiation?(assuming they had to do that in the first place) TEPCO now saying it has began hooking up cables to power to the plants cooling system..but since the sprayings took up time they will have to wait until tomorrow to finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 According to the Asahi newspaper it is hoped that power will be restored to daiichi tomorrow morning (the 18th). They say that it remains possible that cooling systems could then be reactivated, providing they were not damaged beyond repair by the tsunami. www.asahi.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riptide Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 they doesn't really follow from my post. Since they are mitigating the risk to the workers, they are most likely increasing the risk to a larger segment of the general population. This plant is really old, this disaster could of been avoided if they had just shut it down. Really disappointing situation and people are so eager to bash coal power plants over "emissions". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Balti Zen Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I've been wondering when someone was going to make that reference. oldish people, ftw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Water shots effective in cooling fuel pool as steam rose: TEPCO Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Thursday that high-pressure streams of water shot earlier in the evening by the Self-Defense Forces' fire trucks were effective in cooling an apparently overheating spent fuel pool as steam rose from the partially destroyed building housing it. The operation, part of an unprecedented cooling attempt that also involved SDF helicopters dropping tons of seawater earlier in the day, came later than expected because of a high level of radiation in the vicinity of the building, it said. But the radiation level remained more or less unchanged at around 3,600 microsievert per hour after the trucks completed their work, http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/79023.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhi Cove Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 oldish people, ftw I prefer "seasoned". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relic Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 This plant is really old, this disaster could of been avoided if they had just shut it down. Really disappointing situation and people are so eager to bash coal power plants over "emissions". total coal emissions : this nuclear emergency (as) total US annual rainfall for 20 years : morning dew on the grass IMBY for one day totally different magnitudes, dude (thus far). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 * 1st operation Japan Self-Defense Forces dropped 4 huge buckets of seawater from helicopters in this morning. Lead plates were installed at the bottom of the helicopters to shield radiation and crew members wore radiation protection suits. * 2nd operation The National Police Agency tried to pour water from the ground with pumper truck in the evening. However, they were not able to come close because of high radiation and water did not reach the pool. * 3rd operation Japan Self-Defense Forces poured 30 tons of water from the ground with 5 special pumper trucks from 19:45 to 20:09. Because these trucks are special, they were able to do this operation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friedmators Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 total coal emissions : this nuclear emergency (as) total US annual rainfall for 20 years : morning dew on the grass IMBY for one day totally different magnitudes, dude (thus far). Coal produces about 360 mCi (milli) per billion kwh generated for some reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relic Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Coal produces about 360 mCi (milli) per billion kwh generated for some reference thx for info. i was trying to communicate a comparison of the impacts of the coal emissions he noted to this once incident as he did...in other words, it's pretty evident that coal has caused a tremendously larger impact to the environment and humanity than nuclear ever has...much less this one nuclear emergency he used as a prop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovintheWhiteFluff Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 this sounds high, no? [9:38 a.m. ET Thursday, 10:38 p.m. Thursday in Tokyo] High levels of radiation have been detected 30 kilometers (18.6 miles) from the damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, broadcaster NHK reports, citing Japan's Science Ministry. Exposure to those levels of radiation for six hours would be equivalent to the safe level of what a person can absorb in a year, according to the report. Japan's science ministry says radiation levels of up to 0.17 millisieverts per hour have been detected about 30 kilometers northwest of the quake-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. http://news.blogs.cn...support/?hpt=T1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 What does this have to do with my post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinch Leatherwood Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 they doesn't really follow from my post. Since they are mitigating the risk to the workers, they are most likely increasing the risk to a larger segment of the general population. This whole thing has just been bizarre. Today the news conflicts even from the same sources but the information they have released to me anyway doesn't make it seem anywhere near as bad right at this moment. What I wonder is this....have the experts figured out with this much damage to the buildings there is really no way to stop the bleeding? It's not like they flip a switch and the buildings get better they're destroyed/damaged. Systems are compromised to some degree. Is this plant either in for a prolonged low level leak situation best case? How do you move spent rods when the apparatus to do so got blown up? How do you 'fix' broken containment? I suspect that's the big difference between singapore saying 100km and Japan saying 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 This ustream is showing looped video of a flyover of the plant. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/iwj7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPPYVALLEY Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Cool map. http://www.japanquakemap.com/ edit: Be patient and watch it for a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhi Cove Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 This ustream is showing looped video of a flyover of the plant. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/iwj7 Very cool. (slow motion would be helpful though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isopycnic Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 This ustream is showing looped video of a flyover of the plant. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/iwj7 That stream is a little dizzying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 can this coal stuff be taken to OT please? let's stick to the ongoing situation in Japan in this thread. COAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 they doesn't really follow from my post. Since they are mitigating the risk to the workers, they are most likely increasing the risk to a larger segment of the general population. BINGO That other statement was pathetic considering the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 TEPCO dude exact qoute: we believe we saw a small amout of steam after the water pump operation, indicating a cooling effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 TEPCO dude exact qoute: we believe we saw a small amout of steam after the water pump operation, indicating a cooling effect White smoke + steam always good at a fire! Someone was saying yesterday that you can't compare radioactive elements burning to a house fire.. but no one has really presented anything to prove otherwise! It has been good we have seen steam, keep the steam coming.. water is getting in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 White smoke + steam always good at a fire! Someone was saying yesterday that you can't compare radioactive elements burning to a house fire.. but no one has really presented anything to prove otherwise! It has been good we have seen steam, keep the steam coming.. water is getting in there which reactor is it out of though? Weren't they spraying on reactor 4? Which I interpreted as the most stable one to begin with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 White smoke + steam always good at a fire! Someone was saying yesterday that you can't compare radioactive elements burning to a house fire.. but no one has really presented anything to prove otherwise! It has been good we have seen steam, keep the steam coming.. water is getting in there but there is no ongoing fire....would colder water poured onto hot water create steam?(meaning the pool is still pretty full) or does this mean the water that was pumped hit something solid(ie very hot steel or exposed fuel rod) and turned into steam post above: they poured in onto 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 White smoke + steam always good at a fire! Someone was saying yesterday that you can't compare radioactive elements burning to a house fire.. but no one has really presented anything to prove otherwise! It has been good we have seen steam, keep the steam coming.. water is getting in there congrats on your degree in nuclear engineering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 congrats on your degree in nuclear engineering I'm automatically wrong because I don't have a degree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 TEPCO dude exact qoute: we believe we saw a small amout of steam after the water pump operation, indicating a cooling effect You have to laugh at these idiots to think that type of comment would be appeasing in 2011.....on a global new wire. Hence the problem with old school big corps and even Govt.......they never grew up with the people. TEPCO thinks they are speaking to the rice farmers and that's it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 but there is no ongoing fire....would colder water poured onto hot water create steam?(meaning the pool is still pretty full) or does this mean the water that was pumped hit something solid(ie very hot steel or exposed fuel rod) and turned into steam post above: they poured in onto 3 Well, likely this steam is caused by air temp or normal water touching the hotter objects or rods... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I'm automatically wrong because I don't have a degree im just not sure you're on to much. water + hot substance creates steam. steam does not necessarily mean things are going the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Well, likely this steam is caused by air temp or normal water touching the hotter objects or rods... so that would likely mean the spent fuel rods are indeed exposed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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