Jump to content
  • Member Statistics

    17,606
    Total Members
    7,904
    Most Online
    ArlyDude
    Newest Member
    ArlyDude
    Joined

Japan Nuclear Crisis Part II


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Seemed blunt to me. He doesn't have to give all the intricate details.

Similar situation in the US and they would be doing the same thing. Evac out to 50 miles.

Doesn't get much more straightforward then that.

We can hope that he is wrong about the severity (or assumed) of the conditions at the plant.

I think it is more like....despite that he broke off the Japanese status on No 4.......he likely knows even more.

Look....to have America break away and publicly....NRC....inspect and choose to make statements which otherwise might not be public yet....that alone is a signal to Japan and the World that catastrophic impact is very real.......perhaps not there yet....but still progressing in that direction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can anyone in the fire service tell me of fire trucks that can shoot water up 4 stories from 100 yards away. Something is amiss.

I am not in the fire service but know alot about it. I have never seen anything that would be capable of that but there could be apparatus like that in foreign countries. A ladder truck would help shoot the water in closer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

what is the link for that cam?

http://www.tepco.co.jp/nu/f1-np/camera/index-j.html

Something wasn't right about the earlier image. Not sure it was current and not just a file photo.

---

I think the daughter of one of the 50 workers said it best...her dad had accept his fate as a death sentence. If everything was okay as the Japanese keep telling us I wonder why she'd be saying that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its not really probable...at least from that distance....fireboats could...but their pumping ability is much much greater than a land based engine/pump.

But with the right rig and conditions?.....maybe.

A fireboat would be useful. I am not sure if they would have any operable after the tsunami.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its not really probable...at least from that distance....fireboats could...but their pumping ability is much much greater than a land based engine/pump.

But with the right rig and conditions?.....maybe.

Problem is, further away you get, the more the stream breaks up and the easier it is to steam. @100 yards your looking at a " weak" stream, even if you have a goof flow rate ddue to loss of pressure. Nothing conventional in today's fire service ( urban/ suburban) has that pump capability from that distance. Maybe 50yrds. Maybe an ARFF truck at the aurports/ military.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A fireboat would be useful. I am not sure if they would have any operable after the tsunami.

Nyc used to have the SuperPumper system....which was basically a land based fireboat. Its been retired and is now privately owned....but it would be a logistical nightmare to get it there and operational.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like I am watching Oceans 11......there is nothing going wrong in that picture....it actually looks like a post card could be made.....

The helicopter footage from a little less than an hour ago showed a small amount of white, quickly dissipating smoke from #3 and an even smaller amount from #4.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Problem is, further away you get, the more the stream breaks up and the easier it is to steam. @100 yards your looking at a " weak" stream, even if you have a goof flow rate ddue to loss of pressure. Nothing conventional in today's fire service ( urban/ suburban) has that pump capability from that distance. Maybe 50yrds. Maybe an ARFF truck at the aurports/ military.

I just said its not probable. Lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It might be a function of geography and population density. Japan just doesn't have room to store the fuel for 10,000 years in the middle of some desert or under a mountain like we do. Does seem a little weird to have the pools so stuffed with spent fuel rods. Perhaps this is the "human error" part that will inevitably come out as a cause.

i guess it's common-according to someone from CSIS on CNN.. at least the storage of a quantity in a pool. i was just wondering if the fact that they reprocess stuff might make them keep more on property than others. it does seem to be a bad idea to have so many reactors in the same space. i'd guess if these were plants seperated by miles or more you might not have the mass issue at one contribute to the issues at another.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

anyone? i guess a reframe would be how common is it to have thousands of spent but dangerous fuel rods close to eachother on site of a plant?

Sorry, I was eating dinner.

In regards to my original statement about Tepco's reprocessing of spent fuel being a challenge for so many reasons, see below:

Since reliance on human management for such a long period of time is impossible, most countries have decided to bury their wastes in geologic repositories 300 to 1,200 meters below the earth's surface. Searching for stable sites is the current focus of most disposal programs. The characteristics of a good site include unfractured geology so groundwater will not migrate through the area and contaminate water supplies, low seismic activity, and the absence of mineral wealth so future generations will not want to drill in the area.

As far as your re-framed query, from what I've been reading, almost all the BWR's have pools near the reactor. Lake Effect, might be able to let us know if the U.S. temporary cooling pools are also used for the previously discharged fuel rods and where those pools are ( upper level or ground level).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like I am watching Oceans 11......there is nothing going wrong in that picture....it actually looks like a post card could be made.....

below

The helicopter footage from a little less than an hour ago showed a small amount of white, quickly dissipating smoke from #3 and an even smaller amount from #4.

Foxnews...

NHK talking about a fire seen at the plant and then smoke billowing into the sky. About a half hour later no flames visible. Skyline, gray full of smoke. Recorded about 730am, so just about an hour ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

NHK talking about a fire seen at the plant and then smoke billowing into the sky. About a half hour later no flames visible. Skyline, gray full of smoke. Recorded about 730am, so just about an hour ago.

They were referring to the fire that occurred Wednesday morning local time.

The skyline looks hazy because the helicopter is 35km away.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its not really probable...at least from that distance....fireboats could...but their pumping ability is much much greater than a land based engine/pump.

But with the right rig and conditions?.....maybe.

They should have gotten the big lines out connected them and drained from the ocean in the beginning.... Although they would have to find a way to keep pressure.. I think all you would need is a pump(engine)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Official release Tokyo -

http://japan.usembas...0110317-01.html

A Message to American Citizens from Ambassador John V. Roos - March 17

The United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC), the Department of Energy and other technical experts in the U.S. Government have reviewed the scientific and technical information they have collected from assets in country, as well as what the Government of Japan has disseminated, in response to the deteriorating situation at the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant. Consistent with the NRC guidelines that apply to such a situation in the United States, we are recommending, as a precaution, that American citizens who live within 50 miles (80 kilometers) of the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant evacuate the area or to take shelter indoors if safe evacuation is not practical.

We want to underscore that there are numerous factors in the aftermath of the earthquake and tsunami, including weather, wind direction and speed, and the nature of the reactor problem that affect the risk of radioactive contamination within this 50 mile (80 km) radius or the possibility of lower-level radioactive materials reaching greater distances.

*edit*

Link

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was just about to post that...I'll take any good news right now.

Kinda misleading though. Why change from the main gate?

A level of 752 microsieverts per hour was recorded at the plant's main gate at 5 p.m. (0800 GMT) on Wednesday, said the official, Tetsuo Ohmura. The monitoring point was then changed to the plant's west gate and readings were taken every 30 minutes, he said. At 5 a.m. the reading was 338 microsieverts per hour.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like I am watching Oceans 11......there is nothing going wrong in that picture....it actually looks like a post card could be made.....

Are the skies 100% clear over Central Japan? Doesn't look like it to me. Lots of instabilty cloudiness behind the cold front. This picture was taken around 7am Hong Kong time, Japan might be an hour ahead. Looks like a lot of cloudiness. To me the webcam picture is not current.

post-268-0-08289400-1300319214.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kinda misleading though. Why change from the main gate?

A level of 752 microsieverts per hour was recorded at the plant's main gate at 5 p.m. (0800 GMT) on Wednesday, said the official, Tetsuo Ohmura. The monitoring point was then changed to the plant's west gate and readings were taken every 30 minutes, he said. At 5 a.m. the reading was 338 microsieverts per hour.

What side of the plant is the main gate on?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

arnie gundersen (some 'expert' on CNN) says it's chernobyl level now -- 100x worse than worst case imagined a year ago (whatever that means)

He's not alone

"If they don't get water to these spent fuel pools in view of the containment breaches in the other plants the actual radiation releases could approach that category of Chernobyl," said Victor Gilinsky, who was an NRC commissioner at the time of the Three Mile Island accident in 1979, which was the worst nuclear accident in U.S. history.

Earlier Japanese authorities told the International Atomic Energy Agency that radioactivity was being released directly into the air at the pool for the No.4 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi plant. Experts say the pools could present a bigger threat to public health than the reactors, which appear to be still encased in steel containment systems.

"Up until now they have not been able to get close to the spent rods, as even with protective clothing it only stops workers from breathing in radioactive particles, not from radiation itself," Dr Peter Hosemann PHD of the University of California Berkeley Nuclear Engineering Department said Tuesday.

While the building holding the rods has been rocked by fire and a blast, officials in Japan had not said how much water remained in the 40-foot deep tanks.

James Acton, Associate in the Nuclear Policy Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said in an interview before Jaczko's comments that it appeared there was a leak in the pool.

"There is either a leak in the spent fuel pool or the rods are hot enough to cause evaporation," Acton said.

DEADLY MIX

When a fuel rod is exposed to the air the zirconium metal cladding on the rods can easily catch on fire, releasing a deadly mix of radiation into the atmosphere. The earlier fires and explosion in the area of the spent fuel storage tank left the pool partly open to the air allowing the radiation to escape into the atmosphere.

Experts say the water should remain at least eight feet over the spent fuel to maintain acceptable radiation levels but the level usually is kept much higher.

"As the water drains there's going to be less stability - and higher levels of radiation released," said Tara Neider, President and CEO of Areva Federal Services, a U.S. arm of the world's biggest nuclear power plant builder, French giant Areva SA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are the skies 100% clear over Central Japan?    Doesn't look like it to me.   Lots of instabilty cloudiness behind the cold front.   This picture was taken around 7am  Hong Kong time, Japan might be an hour ahead.  Looks like a lot of cloudiness.  To me the webcam picture is not current.

Those are the Philippine Islands you're looking at there...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...