LakeEffectKing Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Thank you for sharing your knowledge of the process. So, to your understanding, what could be damaged by the back end pressure release of the hydrogen explosions which have already occurred? I mean, if given the choice, would you have felt comfortable standing in a steel box at the base of one of those buildings, knowing there was going to be an explosion like the ones we've viewed? I don't mean to appear alarming. I'm simply trying to discern the strength and potential damage those explosions caused (some of which we may not even know about, until they get power reconnected) to the rest of the buildings. Really, I have no knowelege about the forces involved, nor the intricate details of engineering involved wrt the consequences of such an event. Just sharing some of my own experiences/observations of (what I think) is a typical BWR nuke plant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 The fire was extinguished by a combined effort of helicopters dropping over 5,000 metric tons of sand, lead, clay, and boron onto the burning reactor and injection of liquid nitrogen done in Chernoybl... Probably needs to be done here...who is going to step up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Webcam is up and the skies are clear. I don't see any steam/smoke. That's either good, or really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandy Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I wonder if all of the problems dealing with the spent fuel rods will finally encourage the US to get serious about permanent storage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakeEffectKing Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Sounds like what is probably said by folks building oil pipelines or maintaining aircraft before they explode or crash, respectively. Well, engineering plays a huge role too, not so much into "cutting corners" but to perform risk assessments of all components....for as many irregular situations as one can fathom, I'm sure, is not without a great deal of stress and uncertainty. We are all human....100% safety is a ficticious figure....but one that I'm sure most engineers strive to obtain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKY_WX Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 The fire was extinguished by a combined effort of helicopters dropping over 5,000 metric tons of sand, lead, clay, and boron onto the burning reactor and injection of liquid nitrogen done in Chernoybl... Probably needs to be done here...who is going to step up? after you. i have a couple garden hoses and a nifty poncho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Askew Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 The look in Jaczko eyes said it all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I wonder if all of the problems dealing with the spent fuel rods will finally encourage the US to get serious about permanent storage. We will probably recognize there is a problem, but do nothing but argue about it for another 40 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott747 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I don't see any steam/smoke. That's either good, or really bad. Yeah though it's about an hour behind. The footage I saw on CNBC could have been taped thought it claimed to be live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 after you. i have a couple garden hoses and a nifty poncho. well it does appear that some of the plant workers will have to risk their health heavily for the greater good of the Japanese people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinch Leatherwood Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I just dont get it. The reports are so different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Well, engineering plays a huge role too, not so much into "cutting corners" but to perform risk assessments of all components....for as many irregular situations as one can fathom, I'm sure, is not without a great deal of stress and uncertainty. We are all human....100% safety is a ficticious figure....but one that I'm sure most engineers strive to obtain. The engineers do strive for that, but are often undercut by budgets and schedules driven by management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 after you. i have a couple garden hoses and a nifty poncho. In Atomic Twister, Zack Morris prevented nuclear disaster with nothing more than a fire hose. Apparently Hollywood exaggerates a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 does the fact that they reprocess fuel cause them to store used fuel differently than nations which dont? anyone? i guess a reframe would be how common is it to have thousands of spent but dangerous fuel rods close to eachother on site of a plant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samdman95 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 BBC: 2255: The IAEA has released informationabout the temperature of the water in the spent fuel storage pools inside reactors 4, 5 and 6 at Fukushima Daiichi. Spent fuel that has been removed from a nuclear reactor generates intense heat and the water is usually kept below 25C. The IAEA says that the temperature of the pool at reactor 4 was 84C on Tuesday morning. On Wednesday morning, it was 62.7C at reactor 5 and 60C at reactor 6. Current reports say the pools at both reactors 3 and 4 are boiling. Reactor 4's pool may even be dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 During refueling operations, there is an absolute flurry of activity related to scheduled piping changeouts....radiographic "x-raying" of piping, valves, and other components...and general intensive inspections and testing. If cracks/damage are found during the scheduled piping radiography, they are replaced, right then and there. Thickness measurements are documented for the entire pipe, and ANY new blemishes are either noted or deemed significant enough to just replace the entire section of pipe. Every bolt on every pipe is tightened with torque wrenches per insanely detailed procedures. This, at least from my experience, is what takes place in the US nuclear facilities. I assume such standards are similar throughout most of the developed world.. Now we are getting into my area of expertise with pumps, piping. The condition of remaining piping is unknown but judging from pictures and imaging it is readily apparent catastrophic infrastructure damage from earthquake, tsunami and explosion have severely impacted integrity. I mean if two steel reactors are damaged I am sure associated piping structurally is at risk. I would be wary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99lsfm2 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 If you watched Jaczko live on CNN he is holding back info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Can anyone in the fire service tell me of fire trucks that can shoot water up 4 stories from 100 yards away. Something is amiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonli18t Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 If you watched Jaczko live on CNN he is holding back info. Could not agree more. I may not be an expert on this subject, but I am an experienced poker player...and he's bluffing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott747 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Could not agree more. I may not be an expert on this subject, but I am an experienced poker player...and he's bluffing. What would he be bluffing about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonli18t Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 What would he be bluffing about? I just said bluffing to make it poker related...I just feel there are specific details about the current situation he is withholding...not that he is lying or anything. Just the impression I got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinch Leatherwood Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 BBC: 2255: The IAEA has released informationabout the temperature of the water in the spent fuel storage pools inside reactors 4, 5 and 6 at Fukushima Daiichi. Spent fuel that has been removed from a nuclear reactor generates intense heat and the water is usually kept below 25C. The IAEA says that the temperature of the pool at reactor 4 was 84C on Tuesday morning. On Wednesday morning, it was 62.7C at reactor 5 and 60C at reactor 6. Current reports say the pools at both reactors 3 and 4 are boiling. Reactor 4's pool may even be dry. If the webcam was in any way accurate there was no sign of steam. So either it's all boiled off, or they've managed to bring the temperature down. Reminds me of one of the winter storms where we have two model camps. One ends up being terrible wrong, one right. It's the same thing here. Either the Japanese are right and the rest of the world wrong, or this is a horrow show. Abc reported that the radiation at one point was like getting 10,000 xrays an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99lsfm2 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 What would he be bluffing about? I wouldn't say bluffing just not telling what he knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 What would he be bluffing about? he definitely had a case of the shifty eyes. but he was mostly a govt official playing by the books. surprise, there's really no problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 What would he be bluffing about? dam I watched and thought the same. basically....it appears the US got people in there today.....near or in the site....not sure....but experts arrived this morning........as one CNN analyst put it.....yesterday the NRC announced they were in complete synch with Japan on actions and measures. Today, the NRC did a 180.....most likely because of our local assessment and or aircraft surveillance..likely both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 anyone? i guess a reframe would be how common is it to have thousands of spent but dangerous fuel rods close to eachother on site of a plant? It might be a function of geography and population density. Japan just doesn't have room to store the fuel for 10,000 years in the middle of some desert or under a mountain like we do. Does seem a little weird to have the pools so stuffed with spent fuel rods. Perhaps this is the "human error" part that will inevitably come out as a cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott747 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I just said bluffing to make it poker related...I just feel there are specific details about the current situation he is withholding...not that he is lying or anything. Just the impression I got. Seemed blunt to me. He doesn't have to give all the intricate details. Similar situation in the US and they would be doing the same thing. Evac out to 50 miles. Doesn't get much more straightforward then that. We can hope that he is wrong about the severity (or assumed) of the conditions at the plant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 If the webcam was in any way accurate there was no sign of steam. So either it's all boiled off, or they've managed to bring the temperature down. Reminds me of one of the winter storms where we have two model camps. One ends up being terrible wrong, one right. It's the same thing here. Either the Japanese are right and the rest of the world wrong, or this is a horrow show. Abc reported that the radiation at one point was like getting 10,000 xrays an hour. what is the link for that cam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srain Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Can anyone in the fire service tell me of fire trucks that can shoot water up 4 stories from 100 yards away. Something is amiss. The Dutch and the Chinese have developed a Water Cannon that uses a jet turbine engine. I'm not sure of effectiveness of those cannons, but they were developed for High Rise and Petrochemical firefighting efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BxEngine Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Can anyone in the fire service tell me of fire trucks that can shoot water up 4 stories from 100 yards away. Something is amiss. Its not really probable...at least from that distance....fireboats could...but their pumping ability is much much greater than a land based engine/pump. But with the right rig and conditions?.....maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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