Reactor meltdown possible in Japan.

[isnice]

I really have no idea what they think our military can do...then again I'm sure there's tons of people at the pentagon who sit around and come up with crazy contingency plans for all types of nuclear events so they may actually have one.

I'm sure there are hundreds of nuclear physicists advising TEPCO on what to do. The only thing the U.S. Army could help with would be supplies and evacuation aid.

[pazzo83]

hey can someone catch me up about the past couple hours? so all the workers have evacuated the daiichi plant?

[Clinch Leatherwood]

I want to make one last point that the guy from MIT made on CNN earlier.

It was almost FIVE YEARS before we knew how bad it got at Three Mile Island. It took that long to get into the core safely and it was only then that they realized how much it had melted. He suspected they were kind of guessing but if the reports of 2 hours of total exposure are correct no doubt it's a significant melting situation.

I dont know....I wonder what the end game is. Are they just doing all that they can to run down the clock as the rods cool and hope for the best? Is this all that they can do given the destroyed infrastructure? They are still getting rocked with quakes near unstable reactor buildings, roads are a disaster.....they really have limited resources at their disposal. Are they just delaying the inevitable calamaity or could they still get control of this?

[mempho]

Worst case is there is a large exclusion zone around the reactor that is off-limits. Same case as around Chernobyl. That zone could be quite large if we have a total meltdown and contamination of the water table (which would be pretty shallow so near the coast).

Worst case....well there are six reactors potentially here....and one of them burns some plutonium. The worst case...say they all just explode into the atmosphere...is a lot worse than Chernobyl.

Highly unlikely. Possible? Sure.

[B-Rent]

They can provide equipment, fly helicopter missions, help with mass evacuations, and provide overall command and control. We have to remember Japan is still cleaning up from the quake/tsunami and trying to handle thousands of dead and many more wounded/homeless.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/wmd-cst.htm

Thats just breaking the surface of what they can offer as far as radiological expertise goes.

[Dino]

Oh' OK. That's a small percentage. Still not great because there is plutonium involved but less than I feared. The reality is you would be in trouble with even a single particle of plutonium dust in your lungs.

Yeah well at Chernobyl only 5% of the nuclear fuel burned out of the reactor into the air -- the rest melted through the base and fused with the sand that was dislodged from the reactor walls into lava. The lava channeled it's way through the lower levels of the power plant, eventually solidifying into nuclear glass.

[Indystorm]

Contamination of the water table and nearby ocean are probably the biggest threats right now. You don't want nuclear waste washing up on the beaches...

Of course if it ever gets that bad we'll probably see Drudge talk about nuclear tsunamis and nuclear typhoons later on. That'll be interesting for sure.

I think Drudge may have had a headline earlier Tuesday of Nuclear Snow with a photo of a snow capped Japanese peak with a cloud above it.

[johnc]

hey can someone catch me up about the past couple hours? so all the workers have evacuated the daiichi plant?

nutshell: radiation went up -- likely from reactor 2 -- requiring the workers to leave the reactor areas; meanwhile some kind of white smoke is coming from reactor 3... they've been unable to ascertain what the cause is because they can not approach the reactors.

I also heard they're still going to make an effort to cool reactors 5 and 6 and NHK reported earlier that they have a working generator at reactor 6 that they can use to cool reactor 5.

[thewxmann]

I think Drudge may have had a headline earlier Tuesday of Nuclear Snow with a photo of a snow capped Japanese peak with a cloud above it.

They did. Thus my comment

[Dunkman]

Reuters:

Developments today:

* Workers ordered to leave the quake-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant wereallowed back in after radiation levels fell

[ChrisM]

I think Drudge may have had a headline earlier Tuesday of Nuclear Snow with a photo of a snow capped Japanese peak with a cloud above it.

Yeah, I think it was Mt. Fujiyama

[Clinch Leatherwood]

A Japanese government official also indicated for the first time that the containment vessels of all three of the reactors at the plant that exploded may be leaking, "

http://abcnews.go.com/International/japan-earthquake-radiation-leaking-fukushima-reactors-containment-vessel/story?id=13136890

[ArtRosen]

This is what's left of reactor #4....... wow.

[jburns]

I think Drudge may have had a headline earlier Tuesday of Nuclear Snow with a photo of a snow capped Japanese peak with a cloud above it.

All the majors have, "Japan Pulls Workers from Stricken Plant" headlines. Only NBC has, "Workers Briefly Evacuate Nuclear Plant"

NBC has done well with this event.

[Dunkman]

Yeah I'm not sure about that Reuters report but it was posted in the last 15 minutes and they've been pretty excellent throughout.

edit: Nvm I've seen it's confirmed and old news that they are back in, not sure how I missed that.

[isnice]

TEPCO is going to have difficulty surviving this one:

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=TPO.F+Interactive#chart5:symbol=tpo.f;range=1m;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined

[Dunkman]

TEPCO is going to have difficulty surviving this one:

http://finance.yahoo...ource=undefined

TEPCO is beyond toast. If losing 6 reactors doesn't do them in the lawsuits will.

[Clinch Leatherwood]

Water level in unit 5

Japanese authorities have also informed the IAEA that at 12:00 UTC of 15 March the water level in unit 5 had decreased to 201 cm above the top of the fuel. This was a 40 cm decrease since 07:00 UTC of 15 March. Officials at the plant were planning to use an operational diesel generator in unit 6 to supply water to unit 5.

[Witness Protection Program]

Thank God Cheney isn't still VP and Rumsfeld isn't Sec Def

Yes, we feel so secure knowing these events haven't interrupted Obama's golf games, media dinner party (Wolf Blitzer skipped it to do his job, Obama didn't) and taping his March Madness brackets for ESPN. Or his incompetent Surgeon General suggesting Iodine purchases were a good idea for the US west coast even though it is 4500+ miles away and Chernobyl's human health effects didn't extend beyond the longest 1000 mile plume. Way to be prepared after 3+ days lead time.

Anyway, does anyone have any idea what the truly worst-case blast potential would be in kilotons? Not that anyone with real knowledge of the situation would even consider this or that we are yet close to true worst-case, but that blurb about asking the military gave me a crazy idea. Say this does spiral out of control, multiple containment breaches occur, and the stored rods lose water and start to react. Would a final desperation option be to actually bomb the facility if both the surface and upper winds align to blow strongly eastward for an extended period of time?

Yes, I know, nuclear explosions go boom boom pow big time. But sometimes in really bad situations you have to make a smaller sacrifice to save a larger/more valuable asset. So would the damage from bombing a nuke plant, say rendering temporarily useless (for years) several square miles surrounding the plant, be worth it to prevent otherwise heavy nuclear exposure to Tokyo, the financial and economic heart of the country? Writing off an X-mile radius around the plant would have a high economic and social cost, but letting Tokyo suffer heavy radiation might carry a far higher economic and political cost, including tossing out the gov't.

I have no idea what the potential worst-case blast power would be. If it is relatively low, say a few kilotons, perhaps it might be considered. Get much higher and of course the damage and area affected becomes way too much. And of course it is silly to speculate on such a drastic option because they likely have so many more milder options they can employ and I have no idea what the potential worst-case impacts of doing nothing are to compare against. And yeah, a bombing option probably only works in Hollywood. Just doing some brainstorming and wanted to throw it out there.

[isnice]

This is probably a dumb question, but can't they just pour liquid nitrogen into the cooling pools?

[JoMo]

Reuters reporting:

The Japan nuclear safety agency says TEPCO is attempting to build a road to Fukushima Daiichi No.4 reactor to allow fire trucks into site

[PhineasC]

Yes, we feel so secure knowing these events haven't interrupted Obama's golf games, media dinner party (Wolf Blitzer skipped it to do his job, Obama didn't) and taping his March Madness brackets for ESPN. Or his incompetent Surgeon General suggesting Iodine purchases were a good idea for the US west coast even though it is 4500+ miles away and Chernobyl's human health effects didn't extend beyond the longest 1000 mile plume. Way to be prepared after 3+ days lead time.

Anyway, does anyone have any idea what the truly worst-case blast potential would be in kilotons? Not that anyone with real knowledge of the situation would even consider this or that we are yet close to true worst-case, but that blurb about asking the military gave me a crazy idea. Say this does spiral out of control, multiple containment breaches occur, and the stored rods lose water and start to react. Would a final desperation option be to actually bomb the facility if both the surface and upper winds align to blow strongly eastward for an extended period of time?

Yes, I know, nuclear explosions go boom boom pow big time. But sometimes in really bad situations you have to make a smaller sacrifice to save a larger/more valuable asset. So would the damage from bombing a nuke plant, say rendering temporarily useless (for years) several square miles surrounding the plant, be worth it to prevent otherwise heavy nuclear exposure to Tokyo, the financial and economic heart of the country? Writing off an X-mile radius around the plant would have a high economic and social cost, but letting Tokyo suffer heavy radiation might carry a far higher economic and political cost, including tossing out the gov't.

I have no idea what the potential worst-case blast power would be. If it is relatively low, say a few kilotons, perhaps it might be considered. Get much higher and of course the damage and area affected becomes way too much. And of course it is silly to speculate on such a drastic option because they likely have so many more milder options they can employ and I have no idea what the potential worst-case impacts of doing nothing are to compare against. And yeah, a bombing option probably only works in Hollywood. Just doing some brainstorming and wanted to throw it out there.

Blowing the plant up is the absolute last thing they want to do right now.

[isnice]

The Japan nuclear safety agency says TEPCO is attempting to build a road to Fukushima Daiichi No.4 reactor to allow fire trucks into site -REUTERS

Build roads? Uhhh...ok.

[ArtRosen]

BreakingNews Breaking News France urges French nationals in Tokyo to leave country or head to southern Japan - Reuters

I think the French know something we don't. They were right last time...

[Nikolai]

Yes, we feel so secure knowing these events haven't interrupted Obama's golf games, media dinner party (Wolf Blitzer skipped it to do his job, Obama didn't) and taping his March Madness brackets for ESPN. Or his incompetent Surgeon General suggesting Iodine purchases were a good idea for the US west coast even though it is 4500+ miles away and Chernobyl's human health effects didn't extend beyond the longest 1000 mile plume. Way to be prepared after 3+ days lead time.

Anyway, does anyone have any idea what the truly worst-case blast potential would be in kilotons? Not that anyone with real knowledge of the situation would even consider this or that we are yet close to true worst-case, but that blurb about asking the military gave me a crazy idea. Say this does spiral out of control, multiple containment breaches occur, and the stored rods lose water and start to react. Would a final desperation option be to actually bomb the facility if both the surface and upper winds align to blow strongly eastward for an extended period of time?

Yes, I know, nuclear explosions go boom boom pow big time. But sometimes in really bad situations you have to make a smaller sacrifice to save a larger/more valuable asset. So would the damage from bombing a nuke plant, say rendering temporarily useless (for years) several square miles surrounding the plant, be worth it to prevent otherwise heavy nuclear exposure to Tokyo, the financial and economic heart of the country? Writing off an X-mile radius around the plant would have a high economic and social cost, but letting Tokyo suffer heavy radiation might carry a far higher economic and political cost, including tossing out the gov't.

I have no idea what the potential worst-case blast power would be. If it is relatively low, say a few kilotons, perhaps it might be considered. Get much higher and of course the damage and area affected becomes way too much. And of course it is silly to speculate on such a drastic option because they likely have so many more milder options they can employ and I have no idea what the potential worst-case impacts of doing nothing are to compare against. And yeah, a bombing option probably only works in Hollywood. Just doing some brainstorming and wanted to throw it out there.

Umm, you're crazy and need to calm down.

[cmichweather]

Yes, we feel so secure knowing these events haven't interrupted Obama's golf games, media dinner party (Wolf Blitzer skipped it to do his job, Obama didn't) and taping his March Madness brackets for ESPN. Or his incompetent Surgeon General suggesting Iodine purchases were a good idea for the US west coast even though it is 4500+ miles away and Chernobyl's human health effects didn't extend beyond the longest 1000 mile plume. Way to be prepared after 3+ days lead time.

Anyway, does anyone have any idea what the truly worst-case blast potential would be in kilotons? Not that anyone with real knowledge of the situation would even consider this or that we are yet close to true worst-case, but that blurb about asking the military gave me a crazy idea. Say this does spiral out of control, multiple containment breaches occur, and the stored rods lose water and start to react. Would a final desperation option be to actually bomb the facility if both the surface and upper winds align to blow strongly eastward for an extended period of time?

Yes, I know, nuclear explosions go boom boom pow big time. But sometimes in really bad situations you have to make a smaller sacrifice to save a larger/more valuable asset. So would the damage from bombing a nuke plant, say rendering temporarily useless (for years) several square miles surrounding the plant, be worth it to prevent otherwise heavy nuclear exposure to Tokyo, the financial and economic heart of the country? Writing off an X-mile radius around the plant would have a high economic and social cost, but letting Tokyo suffer heavy radiation might carry a far higher economic and political cost, including tossing out the gov't.

I have no idea what the potential worst-case blast power would be. If it is relatively low, say a few kilotons, perhaps it might be considered. Get much higher and of course the damage and area affected becomes way too much. And of course it is silly to speculate on such a drastic option because they likely have so many more milder options they can employ and I have no idea what the potential worst-case impacts of doing nothing are to compare against. And yeah, a bombing option probably only works in Hollywood. Just doing some brainstorming and wanted to throw it out there.

Lay off the crazy pills, Presidents have prior commitments, and this is not our territory, he's being briefed as much as possible with the information that Japan has which is apparent isn't much. Until they call for US support like they may have recently done we can't do a whole lot. You want him to be on a podium all day saying how he's concerned and is looking at the latest details, this is all done behind the scenes every day. How'd Bush do in our own personal crisis with Katrina? Go watch fox some more and keep this stuff in the OT.

Thanks

[B-Rent]

From my understanding, any blast in the plant would simply be confined to the area. A weapon grade nuke blast has pressures exerted on it, to keep the elements in the right position. In a plant, there is nothing putting the same pressures on the elements so it has much less potential. Thats a basic wiki understanding, take it for what its worth.

[Clinch Leatherwood]

BreakingNews Breaking News France urges French nationals in Tokyo to leave country or head to southern Japan - Reuters

I think the French know something we don't. They were right last time...

Probably true.

Lay off the crazy pills, Presidents have prior commitments, and this is not our territory, he's being briefed as much as possible with the information that Japan has which is apparent isn't much. Until they call for US support like they may have recently done we can't do a whole lot. You want him to be on a podium all day saying how he's concerned and is looking at the latest details, this is all done behind the scenes every day. How'd Bush do in our own personal crisis with Katrina? Go watch fox some more and keep this stuff in the OT.

Thanks

Obama was taping for ESPN today his march madness picks. It's shocking to me that he's not on the airwaves pledging help to everyone....but then again maybe it's time we don't help everyone. I don't think I like is hands off approach....but I'm not sure it's wrong either.

[Organizing Low]

from an outsiders perspective

obama's doing fine

back to the nuclear plant

carry on

[ORH_wxman]

Guys keep the political crap out of this thread. Go start a thread in AP if you want to talk about that. We have a subforum for politics related topics for a reason. Keep this thread to science and news.