Reactor meltdown possible in Japan.

[famartin]

i like how the biggest media haters are also some of the least informed people here as a whole

I think that also works with science-haters

[SuperNET]

There's an interesting tension between those freaking out about this and those trying to act all cool and in-the-know and say it isn't a big deal or that it certainly won't become xyz. It strikes me as a big deal-- a Level-6 event on that scale on a populated island is a big deal-- and I share the puzzlement of some that anyone in this discussion would presume to know the level of risk here or the potential outcomes. The experts on the scene-- the ones trying to stabilize the reactors-- don't even know that.

Bravo....

From the beginning, I never passed this off as a minor event. It's an Island.....good grief.

[ThePhotoGuy]

2216: The BBC's Matt Frei in Tokyo says spent fuel rods in reactors five and six are also now believed to be heating up.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

[Isopycnic]

2216: The BBC's Matt Frei in Tokyo says spent fuel rods in reactors five and six are also now believed to be heating up.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-12307698

This was news this morning...

[ThePhotoGuy]

This was news this morning...

I am just posting the latest breaking news from BBC twitter. It was published five minutes ago.

[Ian]

What's needed for a 7? We seem hellbent on going there.

[Avdave]

What's needed for a 7? We seem hellbent on going there.

Some people here seem like they want to say it is a 7 already

[ThePhotoGuy]

What's needed for a 7? We seem hellbent on going there.

Google is your friend

http://www.iaea.org/...nglish/ines.pdf

[Ginx snewx]

440000 evacuees.

[Ian]

Some people here seem like they want to say it is a 7 already

It seems to be a slow move toward total disaster but that doesn't necessarily make the alarmists right from the start. It's like that day 8 hecs that actually happens one out of a million times.

[dan11295]

Only thing that makes sense this that the water level dropped low enough to expose the spent fuel again.

[Ian]

Google is your friend

http://www.iaea.org/...nglish/ines.pdf

I was trying to give someone the op to be an expert. Thanks anyway.

[Clinch Leatherwood]

Fire is on the 4th floor.Kyodo indicates the stored rods may already be partially exposed from boiling.

Same area of an earlier hydrogen explosion.

[ThePhotoGuy]

I was trying to give someone the op to be an expert. Thanks anyway.

Google Expert

[LovintheWhiteFluff]

What's needed for a 7? We seem hellbent on going there.

7

Chernobyl, 1986 — Widespread health and

environmental

effects. External release of a significant

fraction of reactor core inventory.

6

Kyshtym, Russia, 1957 — Significant release of

radioactive

material

to the environment from explosion

of a high activity waste tank.

5

Windscale Pile, UK, 1957 — Release of radioactive

material to the environment following a fire in a reactor

core.

Three Mile Island, USA, 1979 —

Severe damage to the reactor core.

4 Tokaimura, Japan, 1999 — Fatal overexposures of

workers following a criticality event at a nuclear facility.

Saint Laurent des Eaux, France,

1980 — Melting of one channel of

fuel in the reactor with no release

outside the site.

3 No example available

Sellafield, UK, 2005 — Release

of large quantity of radioactive

material,

contained within the

installation.

Vandellos, Spain, 1989 — Near accident caused by

fire resulting in loss of safety systems

at the nuclear

power station.

2 Atucha, Argentina, 2005 — Overexposure of a worker

at a power reactor exceeding the

annual limit.

Cadarache, France, 1993 — Spread

of contamination to an area not

expected by design.

Forsmark, Sweden, 2006 — Degraded safety functions

for common cause failure in the emergency power supply

system at nuclear power plant.

1 Breach of operating limits at a nuclear facility.

INES Level People and Environment Radiological Barriers

and Control Defence-in-Depth

Major Accident

Level 7

• Major release of radioactive

material

with widespread health and

environmental

effects requiring

implementation of planned and

extended countermeasures.

Serious Accident

Level 6

• Significant release of radioactive

material likely to require

implementation

of planned

countermeasures.

Accident with

Wider Consequences

Level 5

• Limited release of radioactive material

likely to require implementation

of

some planned countermeasures.

• Several deaths from radiation.

• Severe damage to reactor core.

• Release of large quantities of

radioactive

material within an

installation

with a high probability of

significant public exposure. This

could arise from a major criticality

accident or fire.

Accident with

Local Consequences

Level 4

• Minor release of radioactive material

unlikely to result in implementation of

planned countermeasures other than

local food controls.

• At least one death from radiation.

• Fuel melt or damage to fuel resulting

in more than 0.1% release of core

inventory.

• Release of significant quantities of

radioactive

material within an

installation

with a high probability

of

significant

public exposure.

Serious Incident

Level 3

• Exposure in excess of ten times the

statutory annual limit for workers.

• Non-lethal deterministic health effect

(e.g., burns) from radiation.

• Exposure rates of more than 1 Sv/h in

an operating area.

• Severe contamination in an area

not expected by design, with a

low probability

of significant

public

exposure.

• Near accident at a nuclear power plant

with no safety provisions remaining.

• Lost or stolen highly radioactive

sealed source.

• Misdelivered highly radioactive

sealed source without adequate

procedures in place to handle it.

Incident

Level 2

• Exposure of a member of the public

in excess of 10 mSv.

• Exposure of a worker in excess of the

statutory annual limits.

• Radiation levels in an operating area

of more than 50 mSv/h.

• Significant contamination within the

facility into an area not expected by

design.

• Significant failures in safety provisions

but with no actual consequences.

• Found highly radioactive sealed

orphan source, device or transport

package with safety provisions intact.

• Inadequate packaging of a highly

radioactive

sealed source.

Anomaly

Level 1

• Overexposure of a member of the

public

in excess of statutory annual

limits.

• Minor problems with safety

components

with significant

defence-in-depth remaining.

• Low activity lost or stolen radioactive

source, device or transport package.

This link is a pdf http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Factsheets/English/ines.pdf

[ArtRosen]

For my first out of 5 posts today, I will tip my hat to the brave workers who are risking life and limb to save the Japanese people from near-certain meltdown from these reactors which just do not seem to want to cooperate. We had a fire at #4 last night and now we have another.. is it part of the same fire or is this a new fire?

It does seem as though reactors #1 and #3 are under control, while we have no idea what's going on with reactor #2 and now we have waste material on fire... the poor Japanese people just cannot seem to do anything right.

[Dunkman]

BBC:

2235: Tepco spokesman Hajimi Motujuku says the fire at reactor four is in the outer housing of the containment vessel. Its cause is not yet known, AP reports.

[Mallow]

BBC:

2235: Tepco spokesman Hajimi Motujuku says the fire at reactor four is in the outer housing of the containment vessel. Its cause is not yet known, AP reports.

Are the spent rods also in the outer housing? Or does this fire have nothing to do with the spent rods?

[LovintheWhiteFluff]

BBC:

2235: Tepco spokesman Hajimi Motujuku says the fire at reactor four is in the outer housing of the containment vessel. Its cause is not yet known, AP reports.

It will be interesting to hear what the cause is. Earlier they said they couldn't pump water in to cool it. So what is the reaction that is taking place if there is no water in there and it has a hole on the side to vent?

Does anyone know if they are getting water in there again?

[NaoPos]

not necassarily new, but good to watch in regards to the workers left at the plant:

and the article to the link:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110315/ts_yblog_thelookout/japanese-nuclear-plant-workers-emerging-as-heroic-figures-in-tragedy

[dan11295]

Saw a diagram on the CBS Evening News which showed a schematic of reactor 4, it did show the spent fuel being stored on the inside of the outer housing. That would suggest that the fire does have to do with the spent fuel. Although an AP Story saws it is actually not in the spent fuel pond.

[LovintheWhiteFluff]

Well NHK World just said not water is getting added due to 300 to 400 mSv around the reactor. So that answers that...

[ThePhotoGuy]

It will be interesting to hear what the cause is. Earlier they said they couldn't pump water in to cool it. So what is the reaction that is taking place if there is no water in there and it has a hole on the side to vent?

Does anyone know if they are getting water in there again?

2249: Officials at the plant say the new fire broke out because the initial blaze had not been extinguished, AP reports.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-12307698

BBC

[LovintheWhiteFluff]

Saw a diagram on the CBS Evening News which showed a schematic of reactor 4, it did show the spent fuel being stored on the inside of the outer housing. That would suggest that the fire does have to do with the spent fuel.

Does that make sense? It needs to be cooled constantly with water. Having it outside the containment building would keep it away from the water and open the door up to huge issues with radiation leaks.

[NaoPos]

Well NHK World just said not water is getting added due to 300 to 400 mSv around the reactor. So that answers that...

Please link it, thanks in advance

[Witness Protection Program]

It seems to be a slow move toward total disaster but that doesn't necessarily make the alarmists right from the start.

This is starting to feel like the Friday afternoon before Katrina, when the track shifted from AL/FL to NOLA. Every hurricane several Mr. Panic Panties declare that X is in danger of Y super storm surge or Cat 5 winds with little grasp of risks, odds, and realities. Read an article, become an expert, HuffPo University graduates. And 999 out of these 1000 ill-informed predictions bust. But sometimes we get a near-perfect storm, that defies the odds and walks the tightrope, where so much that shouldn't go wrong does, conditions surprising nearly all align.

I recall one of the level-headed experts on Sunday who was criticizing the media's over hyping and laying out why worst-case scenarios were very unlikely. One of the things he said would worry him was if they couldn't keep the stored rods cooled, something he didn't anticipate but couldn't rule out.

But even if the worst case release does occur, it might be wise for our panicky types to first read up on Chernobyl and understand the limits of potential impacts. We know that Chernobyl's damaging effects were pretty much limited to about 1000 miles out at its longest extent (to the north.) The US west coast is at least 4500 miles from these reactors, Hawaii 3500 miles away, mainland Alaska 2700 miles away. Americans in the states are not in danger.

Tokyo may ultimately end up being a far different matter, but even then there are many steps that can be taken to limit impacts.

[mempho]

None of those are even remotely possible in this situation. There are containment structures.

One of which, at least, has now been breached.

[LovintheWhiteFluff]

2249: Officials at the plant say the new fire broke out because the initial blaze had not been extinguished, AP reports.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-12307698

Right but this morning they said #4 was possibly boiling. Then they said they couldn't pump water into it and that rods were exposed. They haven't pumped water into it for half a day unless they have and are not reporting it. One logical explanation is that the fuel rods are giving off hydrogen and there is a possible meltdown due to the lack of cooling for half a day.

[mempho]

Right but this morning they said #4 was possibly boiling. Then they said they couldn't pump water into it and that rods were exposed. They haven't pumped water into it for half a day unless they have and are not reporting it. One logical explanation is that the fuel rods are giving off hydrogen and there is a possible meltdown due to the lack of cooling for half a day.

Good catch, there.

[Mallow]

One of which, at least, has now been breached.

A breach in a containment structure is much better than no containment structure.