Dunkman Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 can't bring up Kyodo news site... Yeah it's slow, took probably a full minute for the page to load for me. I'm sure they are getting hammered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 yeah I really do wonder what happened there, or if it was mishandled in some way. It just seemed like all of a sudden they reported the rods were exposed for 2.5 hours. Was there a malfunction in the water gauge? I know the steam vents locked up. I did see a report that the explosion from #3 reactor damaged some of the pumps for reactor #2 which may have led to the above. Yes, the reactor 3 explosion knocked out the cooling systems on reactor 2. But it seems like they were much less successful cooling it down with the seawater, perhaps because of the vent problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 The #3 containment structure is leaking, yes... Not sure of it's implications though except contamination right where it sits, and maybe some runoff.... bbc typo I think the Japanese wire stated no. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburns Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 are you getting any wind data from around the site, or are you relying on model data? Not good for the next 24 hours. 15 knots out of the NE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I'll give them props for evacuating the area so quickly. They seemed to identify that there were problems with the plants pretty quickly and didn't dally around wondering what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Explosions cause shock wave damage. Knowing a little, not hard to imagine gauges getting screwed up, processes based on readings getting screwed up. OC guys not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Not good for the next 24 hours. 15 knots out of the NE. looks to switch back to NNE at about 16Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJHurricane Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 BULLETIN: Container damaged, radioactive materials feared to leak at Fukushima plant TOKYO, March 15, Kyodo Radiation is feared to have leaked after the container vessel was damaged at the No. 2 reactor of the Fukushima nuke plant Tuesday morning, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said. ==Kyodo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott747 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Quick update on the Japanese stock market. Down another -600 after a similar drop yesterday. Now under 9k. BOJ is furiuosly trying to stabilize the market by injecting another 5 trillion yen after 18 trillion yesterday. Nuke news is taking a toll... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 BULLETIN: Container damaged, radioactive materials feared to leak at Fukushima plant TOKYO, March 15, Kyodo Radiation is feared to have leaked after the container vessel was damaged at the No. 2 reactor of the Fukushima nuke plant Tuesday morning, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said. ==Kyodo link pls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Quick update on the Japanese stock market. Down another -600 after a similar drop yesterday. Now under 9k. BOJ is furiuosly trying to stabilize the market by injecting another 5 trillion yen after 18 trillion yesterday. Nuke news is taking a toll... If the nuke news keeps getting worse, expect a major crash. Worst then what we had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 link pls? If you can get to it.. it's really slow http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78016.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 If you can get to it.. it's really slow http://english.kyodo...1/03/78016.html thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ineedsnow Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I'm sure this was posted, but was the explosion from the number 2 reactor the possible cause for the breach? I'm trying to wrap my head around the cause of the breach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I'm sure this was posted, but was the explosion from the number 2 reactor the possible cause for the breach? I'm trying to wrap my head around the cause of the breach. There was an explosion heard at #2 reactor in the suppression pool area. Then the pressure reading fell in the chamber. It's believed that the suppression pool may have been damaged in the explosion or at least have cracks, which is allowing radioactivity to leak out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinch Leatherwood Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I'm sure this was posted, but was the explosion from the number 2 reactor the possible cause for the breach? I'm trying to wrap my head around the cause of the breach. Pressure reportedly dropped from 3 au to 1 au at that moment pointing to a yes answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear00001 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 This thread is on fire... So a couple of clarifying points. The reactor #2 seems to have had a reactor vessel breach. This is pointed to by the fact that the release valves failed (unable to relieve pressure), the water levels dropped, rods were exposed, meltdown commenced. efforts to recover did not last, now internal pressure readings are near atmospheric. Disasters are always a series of chain events that go wrong. If you cannot break/stop the chain, you get to disaster. In a plane, when one thing goes wrong, you think you are OK. Then you compound that with 2 or three other things and you are STUCK. With the Earthquake, the Tsunami and then the sequence of failures with the primary cooling system. Winds are from the Northeast which is bad news for Tokyo. Winds on the ground at 13 MPH in Tokyo which means probably 20 knots at altitude. It does not mean millions will die. It just means that people need to stay indoor till the winds change. Young children under 16 within 60 miles of the radioactive plume (moving) would need to take iodine to reduce the risk of Thyroid cancer. Look at the well documented effects of Chernobyl. First responders are not in a lucky position, but most other people 18+ miles away were OK. With the containment building in place, you reduce some of the spread of radiation, but heat rises and that will carry most of the radiation. I suspect Unit 1 and 3 will follow closely behind Unit 2 as far as reactor vessel breach. Unless you can keep pumping seawater for MONTHS in units 1 and 3, you have a problem. With a breach in the reactor vessel at #2, you have radiation to deal with in the control rooms for 1, 2 and 3, which means less staff and less options. My concern this morning was that the venting system would fail, the pressure would build up inside the reactor vessel (20 cm - 8 inch stainless steel) to a point where the vessel would be "super pressurized" well over 4,000 degrees. If it failed, the result would be catastrophic as radiation would be sent "miles high" into the air. Better a melt-down than that type of explosion. I have to think that there are fail-safe mechanisms to blow the excess heat versus having the vessel fail. No matter what happens in the next 10 days, they will have to cover the 1, ,2 and 3 reactors with sand and Boron (slows down the nuclear reaction) and move towards creating a encasement over each reactor to reduce/slow further spread of radiation. No matter how you look it this, it is not fun for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhi Cove Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 A run down on the amount of time it takes to cool the reactor core. This was written PRIOR to the explosion of Unit 2. But taking into account that Tepco has evacuated the operators, and radiation is being released at higher rates, I would assume there is no one left to over-see the salt water pumping into units 1 & 3. Thus, wouldn't that lean towards the rest of those fuel rods breaking open and melting down? In the Fukushima Dai-Ichi reactors, the pumps that circulate this cooling water are not working. In that case, the water sitting in the reactor vessel surrounding the core will heat up and then start to turn to steam and boil away. Emergency workers have been attempting to pump sea water into the reactors to replace the water that boils off. This additional water is needed both to help cool the reactor and to keep the fuel rods from being uncovered. Figure 2 shows the typical rate at which heat from a shut-down reactor core boils away water when the cooling systems are not functioning. The vertical axis shows the boil-off rate in gallons per minute. The horizontal axis shows the time, in days, since the reactor was shut down. Even a week after being shut down, the heat from a reactor core boils water at a rate of nearly 60 gallons per minute. The boil-off rate declines with time while the rate of radioactive release decreases. Figure 2 The reactor core resides in the lower portion of the reactor pressure vessel (see Figure 3). The normal water level inside the reactor vessel is roughly 196 inches, or 16 feet, above the top of the reactor core. The nuclear fuel is protected against damage caused by overheating as long as it remains covered with water. A rough rule of thumb is that it takes 200 gallons of water to raise or lower the level inside the reactor pressure vessel by 1 inch. For the boil-off rate of 60 gallons per minute a week after shut down, it takes around 200 seconds for the water level inside the reactor pressure vessel to drop an inch. If the reactor cooling system fails one week after the reactor was shut down with the water level inside the reactor vessel is at its normal level, it would take approximately 11 hours for boil-off to reduce the water level down to the top of the reactor core. Without cooling, the boil-off would continue to drop the water level below the top of the nuclear fuel in the reactor core. As nuclear fuel was uncovered by water, it would begin heating up. As the fuel temperature increased to 1,800°F, a chemical reaction between the metal cladding of the fuel rods and the steam flowing past would generate large quantities of hydrogen. If the heat-up continued past 2,200°F, the exposed fuel would begin to melt. This process appears to have produced the hydrogen that leaked from the reactor vessel and caused the explosions in the reactor buildings of Units 1 and 3. In addition, Japanese Electric Company officials have said they expect that some of the fuel has been uncovered long enough to have melted. http://allthingsnuclear.org/post/3859682324/reactor-core-cooling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 There was an explosion heard at #2 reactor in the suppression pool area. Then the pressure reading fell in the chamber. It's believed that the suppression pool may have been damaged in the explosion or at least have cracks, which is allowing radioactivity to leak out. Pressure reportedly dropped from 3 au to 1 au at that moment pointing to a yes answer Thanks. I'm trying to work and follow along at the same time, but this thread is moving fast..lol. I don't mean to clog it with meaningless questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJHurricane Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 http://english.kyodo...1/03/78021.html Blast heard at Fukushima's No.2 reactor, radiation shoots up TOKYO, March 15, Kyodo Radiation is feared to have leaked after the container vessel suffered damage at the No. 2 reactor of the quake-hit Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant Tuesday morning, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said. The utility also admitted that a critical situation called ''meltdown'' in which fuel rods melt and are destroyed is possible at the plant where three reactor cores are believed to have partially melted following Friday's magnitude 9.0 earthquake that hit northeastern and eastern Japan. An explosion was heard early Tuesday morning at the reactor and the radiation level temporarily shot up later, the firm said as it continued efforts to prevent overheating of exposed fuel rods. Shortly after the apparent blast at 6:10 a.m., which appears to have damaged the reactor's pressure-suppression system, the radiation level exceeded the legal limit to reach 965.5 micro sievert per hour before jumping to 8,217 micro sievert at 8:31 p.m., it said. The maximum level is more than eight times the 1,000 micro sievert level to which people can be exposed in one year. The utility said it is evacuating workers from the plant, except for those necessary for work to cool the reactor. The reactor's fuel rods were fully exposed for around two and a half hours Monday evening after water levels rapidly fell, and again late Monday night although seawater was being injected, prompting the utility to open some steam valves at 1:10 a.m. Tuesday in order to resume pumping seawater. The water level recovered somewhat later in the morning to cover about 1.2 meters of the fuel rods, about one-third of their height, the firm said. Prime Minister Naoto Kan said earlier in the morning that the government and TEPCO will set up an integrated headquarters, headed by himself, to address issues at the Fukushima No. 1 plant. With radiation levels around the facility up, TEPCO suspects the core of the No. 2 reactor has partially melted, a critical nuclear safety situation. The development follows hydrogen blasts at both of the plant's two other reactors whose cores are also believed to have partially melted, occurring Saturday at the No. 1 reactor and Monday at the No. 3 reactor. ''A worrisome situation remains but I hope to take the lead in overcoming this crisis,'' Kan said of the nuclear power plant. ''I will take all measures so that damage will not expand.'' At the headquarters set up at the TEPCO head office, with TEPCO president and the economy, trade and industry minister serving as its deputy chiefs, Kan confronted TEPCO officials about their delay in reporting the initial blast. Japan has asked the United States to provide more cooling equipment to help stabilize the plant, Gregory Jaczko, chairman of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, said in Washington. The NRC has already sent two technological experts and is fully supporting Japanese efforts, he said. The No. 2 reactor automatically shut down after the magnitude 9.0 earthquake hit the region on Friday. Its reactor cooling function was lost on Monday and water levels rapidly dropped, fully exposing fuel rods for around two and a half hours from 6:30 p.m. Seawater was injected and water levels were increased temporarily but late Monday night they started dropping, leading to full exposure of the rods again. At 1:10 a.m. Tuesday, TEPCO opened some steam valves and resumed work to pump seawater and was considering opening more valves, according to the company. ==Kyodo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 A run down on the amount of time it takes to cool the reactor core. This was written PRIOR to the explosion of Unit 2. But taking into account that Tepco has evacuated the operators, and radiation is being released at higher rates, I would assume there is no one left to over-see the salt water pumping into units 1 & 3. Thus, wouldn't that lean towards the rest of those fuel rods breaking open and melting down? They are keeping around 50 people on site to continue the pumping operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Wow thanks for that info and diagram!! 60gpm after one week 90gpm+ now geez The media is running with meltdown like it is a nuke bomb going off...... someone needs to clarify this is not terrible if contained. TMI melted and was contained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJHurricane Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Kyodo headline scroll: PM Kan to adress nation 11am local time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Wow thanks for that info and diagram!! 60gpm after one week 90gpm+ now geez The media is running with meltdown like it is a nuke bomb going off...... someone needs to clarify this is not terrible if contained. TMI melted and was contained. Uh it appears it is not contained Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear00001 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Reading an earlier post about the comments being made by Tokyo Electric Power, it is important to understand something about the Japanese culture. If they make a mistake, they say "I am sorry. We made a mistake" and then they move on, put it behind them. I certainly read that from some of their statements... not that this is the end of the story, but it reflects the kind of comments they are making to the press. Read about the November 22, 1968 Japan Airline Flight 2 (DC-8) that landed short of SFO piloted by Captain Asoh. His apology was called the "Asoh defense" and was a learning experience for Americans about the Japanese culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburns Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Wow thanks for that info and diagram!! 60gpm after one week 90gpm+ now geez The media is running with meltdown like it is a nuke bomb going off...... someone needs to clarify this is not terrible if contained. TMI melted and was contained. True enough but for the first time it looks as if they may be losing containment on #2. Like we often say here....the trend is not our friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Reading an earlier post about the comments being made by Tokyo Electric Power, it is important to understand something about the Japanese culture. If they make a mistake, they say "I am sorry. We made a mistake" and then they move on, put it behind them. I certainly read that from some of their statements... not that this is the end of the story, but it reflects the kind of comments they are making to the press. Read about the November 22, 1968 Japan Airline Flight 2 (DC-8) that landed short of SFO piloted by Captain Asoh. His apology was called the "Asoh defense" and was a learning experience for Americans about the Japanese culture. So sorry is not an answer and the Japanese press were furious. I am sure they understand their own culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaoPos Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Wow thanks for that info and diagram!! 60gpm after one week 90gpm+ now geez The media is running with meltdown like it is a nuke bomb going off...... someone needs to clarify this is not terrible if contained. TMI melted and was contained. TMI had a partial meltdown, but no container breach? If so, it would seem different scenario being played out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Uh it appears it is not contained I know....it appears....let's wait for confirmation is all I am thinking.... Looks like they contained 1 and 3 shocked they lost number 2......after going through same drills for 1 and 3 need to understand what damaged the chamber.....was it the explosion of No. 3? I stated earlier.....why the F are these dam things so close to each other!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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