LovintheWhiteFluff Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 That's nice. Thanks for misinterpreting what " means for what ' means, which essential renders everything you just posted worthless. Well whether a plane can destroy a containment building is a little off topic outside of comparing it to a pressure explosion. But I will say this: Saying a plane can't destroy one is patently false, just as saying a containment building is 6 feet thick is also not entirely true. The dome is 1.5 to 2 feet thick, not 6 feet thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott747 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Brief snippets on the latest update with the #2 reactor and overall situation - The troubled No. 2 reactor of the quake-hit Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant was still unstable, the government said Tuesday morning, nearly five hours after work resumed to inject seawater into it to prevent overheating of fuel rods. The reactor ''is not necessarily in a stable condition,'' Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said at an early morning press conference. Earlier, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said that as of 3 a.m., pressure inside the reactor's pressure container had dropped and that it is believed seawater had been pumped in. It added, however, that a rise in water levels has not been confirmed. With radiation levels around the facility up, TEPCO suspects the core of the No. 2 reactor has partially melted, a critical nuclear safety situation. The No. 2 reactor automatically shut down after the massive earthquake that hit the region on Friday. Its reactor cooling function was lost on Monday and water levels rapidly dropped, fully exposing fuel rods for around two and a half hours from 6:30 p.m. Seawater was injected and water levels were increased temporarily but late Monday night they started dropping, leading to full exposure of the rods again. Pressure inside the container that houses the rods increased after the container's steam vents closed for some reason, preventing seawater injection, TEPCO said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Well whether a plane can destroy a containment building is a little off topic outside of comparing it to a pressure explosion. But I will say this: Saying a plane can't destroy one is patently false, just as saying a containment building is 6 feet thick is also not entirely true. The dome is 1.5 to 2 feet thick, not 6 feet thick. You're still not getting the difference between " and '. That's OK though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 ^ Defect meaning a crack? Not sure yet. It may have been a defect that had to do with the steam vents since an earlier report said that one had closed shut automatically when it wasn't supposed to or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 ^ Defect meaning a crack? they mentioned a leak earlier as being possible since they could not hold water levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BxEngine Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Well whether a plane can destroy a containment building is a little off topic outside of comparing it to a pressure explosion. But I will say this: Saying a plane can't destroy one is patently false, just as saying a containment building is 6 feet thick is also not entirely true. The dome is 1.5 to 2 feet thick, not 6 feet thick. 2 's = "...which means inches. He wasn't talking about the containment structure (the outer one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Not sure yet. It may have been a defect that had to do with the steam vents since an earlier report said that one had closed shut automatically when it wasn't supposed to or something. vents were closed....batteries failed....did not allow them to open for a while....batteries were replaced....vents opened......could not pump water until pressure is reduced....when they did...water levels could not be maintained....core exposed....partially....at the very least. No 2 seems to be in big trouble. What is the status on No 1 and No 3? Did they begin to melt....sea water to flood chamber.....heat caused the gases...then explosion while venting....but chamber held as the cores were cooled.....no breach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Compared to what's been shared so far, I find the following quote more alarming than anything else: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110314/ap_on_bi_ge/as_japan_earthquake_nuclear_crisis "A pressure release valve for Unit 2's reactor containment vessel failed to open, hindering efforts to keep water flowing into the chamber, nuclear agency official Naoki Kumagai said. Officials are now considering spraying water directly over the steel-reinforced chamber, he said." I don't know how old that quote is, but I would think that this would essentially guarantee a full meltdown? If you can't actually cool the rods... what's to prevent them from completely melting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 vents were closed....batteries failed....did not allow them to open for a while....batteries were replaced....vents opened......could not pump water until pressure is reduced....when they did...water levels could not be maintained....core exposed....partially....at the very least. No 2 seems to be in big trouble. What is the status on No 1 and No 3? Did they begin to melt....sea water to flood chamber.....heat caused the gases...then explosion while venting....but chamber held as the cores were cooled.....no breach? What you said above suggests that the quote I just posted was rather old. Figures for an AP article. Always slow. As far as reactors 1 and 3, I believe your summary is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakeEffectKing Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 From India times: "They're basically in a full-scale panic" among Japanese power industry managers, said a senior nuclear industry executive late Monday night. The executive is not involved in managing the response to the reactors' difficulties but has many contacts in Japan. "They're in total disarray, they don't know what to do." http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/Emergency-cooling-effort-failing-at-Japanese-reactor-deepening-crisis/articleshow/7705671.cms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinch Leatherwood Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Compared to what's been shared so far, I find the following quote more alarming than anything else: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110314/ap_on_bi_ge/as_japan_earthquake_nuclear_crisis "A pressure release valve for Unit 2's reactor containment vessel failed to open, hindering efforts to keep water flowing into the chamber, nuclear agency official Naoki Kumagai said. Officials are now considering spraying water directly over the steel-reinforced chamber, he said." I don't know how old that quote is, but I would think that this would essentially guarantee a full meltdown? If you can't actually cool the rods... what's to prevent them from completely melting? I have no direct knowledge of what's going on over there. I do know for that type of reactor the above action isn't even a training point it's so far down the list. The valve is stuck shut which means they cannot add water presumably because the pressure is immense. One would think even six inch steel eventually ruptures under that pressure. Poor people this is a nightmare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott747 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I believe this is the first time they have acknowledged a direct problem with the main containment system of any of the three reactors if indeed that is what he was referring to. If the problem is significant and there was some level of the fuel rods melting we might hear of a further rise in the radiation levels over the coming hours. Edano imo has done a great job keeping things updated in such a fluid situation and I'd guess if things were to deteriorate he would give another update fairly soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Wasn't there a problem at Plant #2 a couple days ago as well; has that been resolved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaoPos Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Compared to what's been shared so far, I find the following quote more alarming than anything else: http://news.yahoo.co..._nuclear_crisis "A pressure release valve for Unit 2's reactor containment vessel failed to open, hindering efforts to keep water flowing into the chamber, nuclear agency official Naoki Kumagai said. Officials are now considering spraying water directly over the steel-reinforced chamber, he said." I don't know how old that quote is, but I would think that this would essentially guarantee a full meltdown? If you can't actually cool the rods... what's to prevent them from completely melting? talk about pissing into the wind.... If indeed that fruitates, it basically means the core/rods themselves wouldn't be cooled by the water. And with the "6" inches ( conflicting reports on here, but lets play it safe and go with 6", the 1st couple inches would be heated substabtially. Again, not trying to be an alarmist, but analyzing a scenario. No i'm not an expert. Ray, you don't think they will be doing that additionally to the seawater being pumped into the core? But sounds like they are having issues getting the seawater into the core and rods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I believe this is the first time they have acknowledged a direct problem with the main containment system of any of the three reactors if indeed that is what he was referring to. If the problem is significant and there was some level of the fuel rods melting we might hear of a further rise in the radiation levels over the coming hours. imo has done a great job keeping things updated in such a fluid situation and I'd guess if things were to deteriorate he would give another update fairly soon. if the chamber holds would melting alone increase radiation levels....beyond what is being vented to manage the hydrogen issue? perhaps new isotopes would be detected in the air samples identifying a phase of the melt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperNET Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 2226: David, in Tokyo, writes: "I have lived in Japan for 20 years, and last night sent my family to the west of Japan 700km from Tokyo to stay with relatives. Like Japanese people I don't believe what we are being told by Tepco or the government. We have just been told of a 'deficit' in the reactor 2 by the government in a 0630 announcement. Governments only make announcements at that time if the problem is serious." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Askew Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 A problem with the container vessle is very alarming. All that holds back a large release is these buildings we have heard so much about. Further hydrogen explosions now may be huge in it compromising the shell further. I hate to say but believing a full scale uncontrolled release of radiation sounding increasing inevitable.. Side note. We have always wanted the Thyrosafe tabs for a nuclear attack on W. coast. so went ahead and ordered anyway. probably wont need in this situation, but brings to light the dangers of radiation. God help them in Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinch Leatherwood Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 if the chamber holds would melting alone increase radiation levels....beyond what is being vented to manage the hydrogen issue? perhaps new isotopes would be detected in the air samples identifying a phase of the melt? No but keep in mind it was reported earlier that one of the reasons #3 is losing water is that it's leaking. Presumably even if that's the outer containment vessel that's not good. The Indian times is reporting efforts to cool the second reactor are failing. The reports of higher radiation occured at 935pm their time or about 10 hours ago. Unit 3 has a leak in the bottom....maybe a breach from melting? Unit 2 apparently cannot vent. A dangerous situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 No but keep in mind it was reported earlier that one of the reasons #3 is losing water is that it's leaking. Presumably even if that's the outer containment vessel that's not good. The Indian times is reporting efforts to cool the second reactor are failing. The reports of higher radiation occured at 935pm their time or about 10 hours ago. Unit 3 has a leak in the bottom....maybe a breach from melting? Unit 2 apparently cannot vent. A dangerous situation. You are talking about old information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperNET Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Anyone happen to know the wind direction and speed for the next 12 to 24 hours in Tokyo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 A problem with the container vessle is very alarming. All that holds back a large release is these buildings we have heard so much about. Further hydrogen explosions now may be huge in it compromising the shell further. I hate to say but believing a full scale uncontrolled release of radiation sounding increasing inevitable.. Side note. We have always wanted the Thyrosafe tabs for a nuclear attack on W. coast. so went ahead and ordered anyway. probably wont need in this situation, but brings to light the dangers of radiation. God help them in Japan. One thing on the bright side (not much on the bright side, granted) is that if they are unable to actually vent pressure from the reactor, then an explosion in the outer building becomes less likely as there is no longer hydrogen collecting within the outer building. That means nothing if there is a significant buildup of hydrogen within the core. Don't know if that's possible or has happened... it was unclear to me if the reaction causing hydrogen to buildup was due to liquid water impacting the casing, or steam. If it has to be liquid water, then any hydrogen increase should slow if not stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieOber Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Anyone happen to know the wind direction and speed for the next 12 to 24 hours in Tokyo? Found this: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=zmw:00000.1.47671&hourly=1&yday=73&weekday=Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperNET Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 You are talking about old information. It has been well established (since this am EST) that the containment structure of #3 has a leak in the bottom (I suspect that ground water is compromised in that area). just now, it has been established that cooling of #2 is problematic. Did I miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 No but keep in mind it was reported earlier that one of the reasons #3 is losing water is that it's leaking. Presumably even if that's the outer containment vessel that's not good. The Indian times is reporting efforts to cool the second reactor are failing. The reports of higher radiation occured at 935pm their time or about 10 hours ago. Unit 3 has a leak in the bottom....maybe a breach from melting? Unit 2 apparently cannot vent. A dangerous situation. Number 3 isn't losing water. Number 2 is the problem. Now I'm confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 It has been well established (since this am EST) that the containment structure of #3 has a leak in the bottom (I suspect that ground water is compromised in that area). just now, it has been established that cooling of #2 is problematic. Did I miss something? ? That's news to me about number 3. The first I heard of any possible leak was regarding number 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plokoon111 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Wait I thought there was a crack on the structure of reactor #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperNET Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 ? That's news to me about number 3. The first I heard of any possible leak was regarding number 2. The #3 containment structure is leaking, yes... Not sure of it's implications though except contamination right where it sits, and maybe some runoff.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I have not heard anything about a leak in #3. Not sure where you got that information. The water was simply boiling off and being released via the steam vents until the building exploded due to hydrogen buildup.. There is no system to circulate the water so it's just boiling off as they put it in. #2 had a stuck steam vent, but it is now unstuck and they have been resuming the sea water injection. http://english.kyodo...1/03/77969.html "At 1:10 a.m. Tuesday, TEPCO opened some steam valves and resumed work to pump seawater and is considering opening more valves, according to the company." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k*** Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I feel like there is a lack of pertinent info in this thread now that art rosen has been gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I have not heard anything about a leak in #3. Not sure where you got that information. The water was simply boiling off and being released via the steam vents until the building exploded due to hydrogen buildup.. There is no system to circulate the water so it's just boiling off as they put it in. #2 had a stuck steam vent, but it is now unstuck and they have been resuming the sea water injection. http://english.kyodo...1/03/77969.html "At 1:10 a.m. Tuesday, TEPCO opened some steam valves and resumed work to pump seawater and is considering opening more valves, according to the company." OK, that clarifies things a bit. I didn't think there was any leak in 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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