ArtRosen Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 http://www.nationaljournal.com/energy/japanese-officials-nuclear-fuel-rods-melting-in-3-reactors-20110314 Japanese Officials: Nuclear Fuel Rods Melting in 3 Reactors Outlook grim following two explosions By Katy O'Donnell Monday, March 14, 2011 | 12:18 p.m Japanese officials confirmed Monday that nuclear fuel rods appear to be melting inside three reactors compromised by Friday’s earthquake, though nuclear experts differ on whether the outer chamber of a reactor melting in fact constitutes a partial “meltdown.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtRosen Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 WestWingReport West Wing Report Nuclear Regulatory Comm. chief Jaczko briefing on Jap. nuclear crisis: Little probability of radioactive particles reaching U.S., he says WestWingReport West Wing Report U.S. has dispatched nuclear experts to Japan to assist in any way possible; says Japanese are doing all the right things WestWingReport West Wing Report NRC chief Jaczko says "no detailed info" about the core in the (Fukushima) reactor #HelpJapan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Sigh, who is this energy dept. muppet on TV? Can't even answer a simple question whether US reactors are designed to withstand a quake as strong as the one in Japan. I don't know jack and I would predict that question and know what plants in California were designed to withstand. The hemming and hawing and repeating the same generic answer over and over just feeds people's fears and lack of government trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtRosen Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Sigh, who is this energy dept. muppet on TV? Can't even answer a simple question whether US reactors are designed to withstand a quake as strong as the one in Japan. I don't know jack and I would predict that question and know what plants in California were designed to withstand. The hemming and hawing and repeating the same generic answer over and over just feeds people's fears and lack of government trust. WestWingReport West Wing Report NRC chief Jaczko: U.S. nuke plants (104 of them) are built to high standards w/regard to earthquakes etc. "very strong program in place" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Sigh, who is this energy dept. muppet on TV? Can't even answer a simple question whether US reactors are designed to withstand a quake as strong as the one in Japan. I don't know jack and I would predict that question and know what plants in California were designed to withstand. The hemming and hawing and repeating the same generic answer over and over just feeds people's fears and lack of government trust. the quake wasn't really the issue..they didn't receive the full shaking from the earthquake since that occurred out in the ocean. It was the lack of foresight in putting generators in low ground behind an insufficient sea wall that is causing all the backup system to be screwed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkrangers Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 the quake wasn't really the issue..they didn't receive the full shaking from the earthquake since that occurred out in the ocean. It was the lack of foresight in putting generators in low ground behind an insufficient sea wall that is causing all the backup system to be screwed up. Yep, the plant survived the quake just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterymix Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 the quake wasn't really the issue..they didn't receive the full shaking from the earthquake since that occurred out in the ocean. It was the lack of foresight in putting generators in low ground behind an insufficient sea wall that is causing all the backup system to be screwed up. Yeah, good work on this topic. Looking down the road, it seems likely that the radiation will be contained except for occasional emergency venting. At the very least, robots can dismantle the core fuel. All of these troubled reactors are never going to produce again. The nation will be short 30% of electricity generation capacity. How will the refugees be kept clean and healthy? How will the electical generation capacity be brought back? Is it likely and rational that Japan will turn its back on nuclear electricy generation as a result of emotions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indystorm Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 the quake wasn't really the issue..they didn't receive the full shaking from the earthquake since that occurred out in the ocean. It was the lack of foresight in putting generators in low ground behind an insufficient sea wall that is causing all the backup system to be screwed up. Yes, it was the tsunami that disabled the back up system after the earthquake knocked out power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddylonglegs Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I would assume they'll have to run generators using diesel or natural gas (lng) for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Is it likely and rational that Japan will turn its back on nuclear electricy generation as a result of emotions? I don't think so. Japan has very little natural resources and depends on nuclear power. Keep in mind they still have 3 other reactors on site that are powered down for safety inspections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 the quake wasn't really the issue..they didn't receive the full shaking from the earthquake since that occurred out in the ocean. It was the lack of foresight in putting generators in low ground behind an insufficient sea wall that is causing all the backup system to be screwed up. Bingo! Right now.....at plants all over the world....since many are along some type of water front.......engineers/designers/regulators are reviewing the location of backup generators. Now fortunately, the ability of surviving a flood is part of the design planning.......but there is nothing wrong with re-visiting the plans. I would think 300yr flood marks would be the minimal benchmark? Be interesting to read up on. It would also not shock me to find alternative designs for maintaining water pressure/supply. i.e. water towers........ Unfortunately for Japan.....if the loss of the generators becomes the primary cause (i.e. water damage) then it is very likely this portion of the disaster could have been prevented. There is a lot more to learn about the actual setup they had....location of the generators etc etc etc. Right now....containment seems to be the biggest hope and goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozart Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Looking down the road, it seems likely that the radiation will be contained except for occasional emergency venting. But can anyone define "occasional," and what that will mean, long-term, for the Japanese nation? Who is going to want to book a flight to Japan, for business or pleasure, with that kind of threat continuing, and accumulating? I wouldn't even want to be living on the Korean peninsula if the spew (even if "occasional") continues for months. Winds will not be westerly every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick G Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 it is easy to play arm chair quarterback now. But my concern is that the Japanese gov't is in over it's head. We are discussing how little radiation people are getting but any radiation is dangerous. if the people got a small ice of plutonium in their lungs, they would develop lung cancer, not might but will. this could easliy pass cherlnybol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtRosen Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 it is easy to play arm chair quarterback now. But my concern is that the Japanese gov't is in over it's head. We are discussing how little radiation people are getting but any radiation is dangerous. if the people got a small ice of plutonium in their lungs, they would develop lung cancer, not might but will. this could easliy pass cherlnybol. He said it. Not me. Just remember that next time you guys go to bash me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkman Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Well there's been a post or 2 like that every few pages but for the most part, compared to what I've seen elsewhere, people here have remained rational about this whole event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg ralls Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Honestly, this thread is the best place to keep up with the stuff happening in Japan. Better than CNN, Google, or anywhere else. Sure, there are some "end of the world" type comments here & there, but this is a mostly sane place to stay informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 it is easy to play arm chair quarterback now. But my concern is that the Japanese gov't is in over it's head. We are discussing how little radiation people are getting but any radiation is dangerous. if the people got a small ice of plutonium in their lungs, they would develop lung cancer, not might but will. this could easliy pass cherlnybol. yes, speculation is much better than the discussion of facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainstorm Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Yep, the plant survived the quake just fine. there was remakably little damage from the quake. just look at the video of the tsunami as it came ashore. that was about 8 minutes after the quake and the buildings look to be intact. the real tragedy amidst the nuclear hype is that alot of people must have gotten out of the safety of being on upper floors of buildings after the quake only to be washed away as the tidal wave came in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott747 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Brief snippets on the #2 reactor - The plant operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co., said steam vents of the pressure container of the reactor that houses the rods were closed probably due to the battery problem, raising fears that its core will melt at a faster pace. The firm said it will first lower the pressure of the reactor by releasing radioactive steam and open the vents with new batteries to resume the operation to inject seawater to cool down the reactor. The utility said a hydrogen explosion at the nearby No. 3 reactor that occurred Monday morning may have caused a glitch in the cooling system of the No. 2 reactor. Similar cooling down efforts have been made at the plant's No. 1 and No. 3 reactors and explosions occurred at both reactors in the process, blowing away the roofs and walls of the buildings that house the reactors. Edano denied the possibility that the No. 2 reactor will follow the same path, as the blast at the No. 3 reactor created a gap in the wall of the building that houses the No. 2 reactor. Hydrogen will be released from the space, he said. However, TEPCO officials did not completely rule out the possibility that a blast will happen, saying hydrogen may have been accumulating while the fuel rods are exposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 the quake wasn't really the issue..they didn't receive the full shaking from the earthquake since that occurred out in the ocean. It was the lack of foresight in putting generators in low ground behind an insufficient sea wall that is causing all the backup system to be screwed up. I know and would have been happy if he responded like that.. He just went into a PR thing he had already said twice before like "we are always reviewing our safety standards" and said he didn't want to speculate on what US plants were built to withstand. Just want to spout the PR lines he had been fed rather than educate the public. Anyone who was predisposed to be against nuclear power would have only been more so after listening to him. Just expected more from someone standing at a White House podium who should have had plenty of time to prepare for the news conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkman Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 From Kyodo: BREAKING NEWS: Work resumes to inject seawater into troubled reactor unit: TEPCO (03:46) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 the quake wasn't really the issue..they didn't receive the full shaking from the earthquake since that occurred out in the ocean. It was the lack of foresight in putting generators in low ground behind an insufficient sea wall that is causing all the backup system to be screwed up. I think if I understood correctly, there was a third backup system designed to convert steam into water coolant should the generator fail. Some guy interviewed on NHK said that this system seems to have failed to keep sufficient coolant level, and implied that that failure could be due to a leak somewhere in the coolant system. I guess if there is such a leak it could have been caused by earthquake damage. I could have misunderstood the explanation, but they've been replaying this bit on NHK for the past few hours so anybody interested could probably watch the segment when it's replayed again at mms://nhk-world.gekimedia.net/nhkw-highm ; they're on like a 15-minute recurring loop since it's overnight there. It's too early of course to know for sure what happened and what's going on now, so I guess in some ways it's all speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkman Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I think if I understood correctly, there was a third backup system designed to convert steam into water coolant should the generator fail. Some guy interviewed on NHK said that this system seems to have failed to keep sufficient coolant level, and implied that that failure could be due to a leak somewhere in the coolant system. I guess if there is such a leak it could have been caused by earthquake damage. I could have misunderstood the explanation, but they've been replaying this bit on NHK for the past few hours so anybody interested could probably watch the segment when it's replayed again at mms://nhk-world.gekimedia.net/nhkw-highm ; they're on like a 15-minute recurring loop since it's overnight there. It's too early of course to know for sure what happened and what's going on now, so I guess in some ways it's all speculation. Well if that is the case it would certainly make me feel better about the design. So far it's seemed like the design was generators, and if they fail then scramble to avoid meltdown. I mean, they had to know all the reactors would shutdown when there was an earthquake and thus there would be a shortage of power to run normal operations (I mean, they're designed to inject the control rods when the earthquake hits.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Lizard Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose Useful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 It appears that in general, the current USA nuclear plants would be more susceptible to storm surge from hurricanes as opposed to a tsunami. There are 4 nuclear plants in central/southern California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-K Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 It appears that in general, the current USA nuclear plants would be more susceptible to storm surge from hurricanes as opposed to a tsunami. There are 4 nuclear plants in central/southern California. Illinois is winning when it comes to nuclear power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallow Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 It appears that in general, the current USA nuclear plants would be more susceptible to storm surge from hurricanes as opposed to a tsunami. There are 4 nuclear plants in central/southern California. None of which have any real susceptibility to tsunamis anyway, since southern Cali is not a tsunami hotbed like Japan (or the coast from Northern Cali northward) is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperNET Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 1844: Mikan in Tokyo writes: "There is a growing sense that the Japanese government is not telling us the true story. On one end, there is the Japanese media that plays down the nuclear drama and focuses on human drama, and at the other, the foreign media is up-playing the nuclear disaster. In my company I heard at least half the essential staff is being sent to Hong Kong, Singapore or even Sydney. I am preparing to leave Tokyo and/or Japan. So are many of my friends. There is a sense of deserting Tokyo as soon as possible." I thought this was interesting...... This preceded the original message 1839: UK nuclear expert John Large tells the BBC that the wind direction off the east coast of Japan is moving round to the south, which could take any radioactive plume from the Fukushima plant over the Tokyo regio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbutts Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Apparently modern nuclear design can be done without these types of concerns Passive Safety Most current nuclear power is Active Safety I'm no expert, just learned this today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacindc Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 BREAKING NEWS: Work resumes to inject seawater into troubled reactor unit: TEPCO (03:46) I'm getting punchy. I read this as "Work resumes to inject seaweed into trouble reactor unit." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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