Ed Lizard Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 TMI had an oxygen bubble, it never exploded because there was insufficient air/oxygen to make it explode. Every morning the last few days I wake up and things are worse in Japan. They should pay me to stay in bed. Inhalation of even minute plutonium particles is frequently fatal, the localized irradiation with alpha particles in the lungs almost always produces cancr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Fully exposed per Kyodo. The news just can not get better it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott747 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 The #2 reactor does sound worse off compared to how the other two went down. From what I can piece together there was immediate damage to the back up cooling system from the explosion of the #3 reactor and they have been having trouble since trying to pump water/seawater in to keep the fuel rods covered, which has led to them being exposed in some manner. *edit* Tepco has confirmed those reports regarding the fuel rod at Daiichi's no.2 reactor, saying it has restarted pouring water into the reactor after the fuel rod was exposed by dropping water levels. More on Tepco's comments - it says the entire fuel rod may have been exposed at one point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott747 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Presser by Edano soon. They have been doing a good job over the last few days updating the situation when things appear to be going downhill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master of Disaster Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 TMI had an oxygen bubble, it never exploded because there was insufficient air/oxygen to make it explode. Every morning the last few days I wake up and things are worse in Japan. They should pay me to stay in bed. Inhalation of even minute plutonium particles is frequently fatal, the localized irradiation with alpha particles in the lungs almost always produces cancr. Hydrogen bubble I believe it was a TMI as well no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott747 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Reuters - Tepco says parts of the fuel rods have been damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Lizard Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 Hydrogen bubble I believe it was a TMI as well no? I said that. TMI had a hydrogen bubble, which didn't explode, insufficient air/oxygen. Venting superheated steam and hydrogen to the outside where there is plenty of air might have been a mistake, but then again, maybe they didn't have a choice, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieOber Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Hydrogen bubble I believe it was a TMI as well no? Having grown up 12 miles from that mess, it's implanted in my brain - yes, it was a hydrogen bubble that was the main fear. I think ed meant hydrogen because the lack of oxygen was why it didn't explode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkman Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Reuters - Tepco says parts of the fuel rods have been damaged. Interesting choice of words. By interesting, I mean concerning. That's pretty vague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 NEWS ADVISORY: Seawater pumping resumes at 2 reactors of Fukushima nuke plant: Edano (21:09) BREAKING NEWS: Fuel rods of No. 2 reactor of Fukushima plant may have partially melted: TEPCO (21:08) NEWS ADVISORY: Steam being released at No. 2 reactor of Fukushima nuke plant (20:57) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Interesting choice of words. By interesting, I mean concerning. That's pretty vague. he was probably referring to the cladding that surrounds the fuel pellets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaoPos Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 On gma, reporter was reading a Facebook post of the vice President of some nuclear company associated with the Fukushima plant. All I caught was "let's pray" . Just passing along the tidbits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master of Disaster Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I said that. TMI had a hydrogen bubble, which didn't explode, insufficient air/oxygen. Venting superheated steam and hydrogen to the outside where there is plenty of air might have been a mistake, but then again, maybe they didn't have a choice, You said Oxygen, in the post about 5-6 up, which is a typo. No worries Jamie, I see TMI out my front door every morning. People here still talk about it. I couldnt imagine living here then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick G Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 At thsi point, I would say all three reactors have melted down to some degree. if the water is evaporating as fast as they dump it in then they have problems. I wonder it the control rods are damaged, becasue one the control rods are inserted, the reaction stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
free_man Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Much like the Iceland volcanic actvty of last year, everyone is suddenly an expert on Nuclear power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needbiggerboat Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 kyodo news saying that the earlier explosion at #3 possibly damaged 4 of 5 pumps at #2 priority on addressing the issues with #2, but still also working on #1 and #3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 At thsi point, I would say all three reactors have melted down to some degree. if the water is evaporating as fast as they dump it in then they have problems. I wonder it the control rods are damaged, becasue one the control rods are inserted, the reaction stops. not exactly. Once the control rods are inserted, the reaction slows. Plants always need to remove the residual heat that is caused by the chain reaction, even with the rods inserted. The ultimate killer is if they pour in the boric acid, which will more or less stop the reaction. From what I have heard, all the rods inserted just fine, but with the backup cooling systems failing, they can't remove the residual heat. If the rods weren't in, this would have been toast a long time ago. I think it's also good to remember that in a Boiling Water Reactor like these, the control rods are all inserted from the bottom of the core, not the top like in Pressurized reactors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Much like the Iceland volcanic actvty of last year, everyone is suddenly an expert on Nuclear power. it kinda cracks me up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
free_man Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 it kinda cracks me up No offense to yourself or anyone else in-the-know regarding Nuclear physics...it's hard to read this thread and feel out who actually has a clue and who is just tapping wiki or google for regurgitation. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 No offense to yourself or anyone else in-the-know regarding Nuclear physics...it's hard to read this thread and feel out who actually has a clue and who is just tapping wiki or google for regurgitation. lol no offense taken at all. I have actually been very impressed with the level of knowledge that people have presented in this thread. MUCH better information in here than I have found in any other news outlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 The NYT article this morning is very concerning and answered some questions I had to sum up when you shut down a reactor the reaction just doesn't stop...the rods can produce 6-10% of the heat when at full power for a long while days to weeksto months the article said usually fresh new water is pumped in and old warmer water pumped out over and over.....in this case no water is pumping in or out. They are trying to pump in sea water and a question I always had was how are they getting it out well they aren't. That water is just evaporating and that is what is causing the pressure build up and is why they have to "vent" the reactor every so often Radioactive Releases in Japan Could Last Months, Experts Say http://www.nytimes.c...or.html?_r=2 Japanese reactor operators now have little choice but to periodically release radioactive steam as part of an emergency cooling process for the fuel of the stricken reactors that may continue for a year or more even after fission has stopped. The plant’s operator must constantly try to flood the reactors with seawater, then release the resulting radioactive steam into the atmosphere, several experts familiar with the design of the Daiichi facility said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Tepco says water levels have risen, and the fuel rods are now only half-exposed. Tepco says it has opened the steam relief valve at Daiichi's no.2 reactor. -- Did someone fall asleep or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porsche Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 The NYT article this morning is very concerning and answered some questions I had to sum up when you shut down a reactor the reaction just doesn't stop...the rods can produce 6-10% of the heat when at full power for a long while days to weeks the article said usually fresh new water is pumped in and old warmer water pumped out over and over.....in this case no water is pumping in or out. They are trying to pump in sea water and a question I always had was how are they getting it out well they aren't. That water is just evaporating and that is what is causing the pressure build up and is why they have to "vent" the reactor every so often Radioactive Releases in Japan Could Last Months, Experts Say http://www.nytimes.c...or.html?_r=2 Very good explanation in laymen terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick G Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I did some research some time ago (20 Years) when I was in college, and some of it is coming back. My specialtiy is computer security systems. I design disaster recovery plans for businesses. You have understand the possibility of the disaster before you can plan for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 One lesson appears to be for facilities with multiple reactors.....separation between buildings needs to be more significant then at Daiichi's facility. It will be interesting to review the event sequences. I have not heard much more about the other facilities in Japan who were mentioned to have some degree of shut down problems. If Japan loses 3-8 reactors that will likely put immense pressure for supply, even when factoring in the demand losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Kyodo is reporting that the fuel rods of #2 reactor were fully exposed for 2.5 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojitodd Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 The NYT article this morning is very concerning and answered some questions I had to sum up when you shut down a reactor the reaction just doesn't stop...the rods can produce 6-10% of the heat when at full power for a long while days to weeksto months the article said usually fresh new water is pumped in and old warmer water pumped out over and over.....in this case no water is pumping in or out. They are trying to pump in sea water and a question I always had was how are they getting it out well they aren't. That water is just evaporating and that is what is causing the pressure build up and is why they have to "vent" the reactor every so often Radioactive Releases in Japan Could Last Months, Experts Say http://www.nytimes.c...or.html?_r=2 Japanese reactor operators now have little choice but to periodically release radioactive steam as part of an emergency cooling process for the fuel of the stricken reactors that may continue for a year or more even after fission has stopped. The plant’s operator must constantly try to flood the reactors with seawater, then release the resulting radioactive steam into the atmosphere, several experts familiar with the design of the Daiichi facility said If that is the case, that they will be periodically releasing radioactive(and the general public will not care about amount..they will just see RADIOACTIVE)steam into the atmosphere(especially if it is to the point that it is can be detected on ships 100 miles away) for a considerable time period(months to up to a year).... ..then who the hell is going to want to travel or do business in or near that area(including Tokyo)? They can say all they want about 'it all blowing out to sea' and all that, but people are going to still think 'what if it is blown north or south or east by some unusual erratic winds or something' and are just going to want to avoid the area. There are reports online now of people in Tokyo not wanting to go outside because of this. What long term effect is this going to have with the recovery, business, visitors, etc. to the larger surround ing area, including Tokyo? How is this Japanese economy going to be hit by this over the months? .. just makes one wonder. The last thing they need is the long term scare and hype of having 'periodic radioactive releases'. As can be seen in this thread, just the idea of anything 'radioactive' scares the **** out of a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhi Cove Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Looking at the videos of the 2 explosions at the Daichi plant, they keep saying the explosions did not damage the reactor shells, and I'm finding that hard to believe. Yes, the blast was forced upwards, blowing the top of the building(s) off. But wouldn't the back-end intensity of the explosion also damage to the reactor shell as well? How thick is the containment vessel? Can it actually take an explosive impact, without being cracked or breached? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nchighcountrywx Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Here is a Wall Street Journal Article this morning: WSJ Article A good read on the issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Looking at the videos of the 2 explosions at the Daichi plant, they keep saying the explosions did not damage the reactor shells, and I'm finding that hard to believe. Yes, the blast was forced upwards, blowing the top of the building(s) off. But wouldn't the back-end intensity of the explosion also damage to the reactor shell as well? How thick is the containment vessel? Can it actually take an explosive impact, without being cracked or breached? In the US, the main containment structure is meant to at least withstand the impact of a passenger aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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