The infamous SNE lawn thread

[moneypitmike]

1st chipmunk of the year today

You must have hurt them last year. I've seen a few already. Meanwhile, we lost the last of the snow (outside of the plow remains) yesterday. At least I think we lost it all.

[Logan11]

This area has really fat long earth worms...relative to what I was used to in the Mid Hudson Valley. I guess they are good for the soil....

The weeds can be problematic here, but the fact that the garden has the house and concrete patio on one side does help...some stuff blows in from the woods and wild grasses/bushes that are on the east side of the garden, but it's not too terrible...I'm pretty vigilant to turn over the soil in April, taking out the weeds by their roots, and then plowing the smaller stuff into the soil. The key is to get them when they're young and after a good rain.

Just hoping the heat will arrive this year to ripen the heirloom tomatoes and eggplants

[nzucker]

Who cares...when will you get the point? Noone cares.

Do you drive a car..? Pollution..

End of story

We're having a discussion about fertilization/pesticides and pollution. If you don't want to participate, don't post in the thread.

Yes I do drive a car, and sometimes feel bad about the energy use...but the fact is I need it for work as I'm a delivery driver for a restaurant on weekends, and the school where I work is a good distance away. Cars are a little different however in that they don't pollute the groundwater and contaminate waterways with excess nitrogen like artificial fertilizers...the rash application of fertilizers on agricultural lands in the Plains, which end up in the Mississippi, is one reason why there is a dead zone hundreds of miles in area in the Gulf of Mexico. The extra nitrogen promotes the growth of too much algae that sucks up the oxygen and kills the fish. Similar story in the Chesapeake with all the industrial poultry operations dumping their manure into local streams...

[nzucker]

This area has really fat long earth worms...relative to what I was used to in the Mid Hudson Valley. I guess they are good for the soil....

Yeah they process the organic matter in the soil and also create aeration which allows plants to spread their roots. Another harmful result of overusing pesticides/fertilizers is that it kills the earthworms which are key to maintaining healthy soil.

[Damage In Tolland]

We're having a discussion about fertilization/pesticides and pollution. If you don't want to participate, don't post in the thread.

Yes I do drive a car, and sometimes feel bad about the energy use...but the fact is I need it for work as I'm a delivery driver for a restaurant on weekends, and the school where I work is a good distance away. Cars are a little different however in that they don't pollute the groundwater and contaminate waterways with excess nitrogen like artificial fertilizers...the rash application of fertilizers on agricultural lands in the Plains, which end up in the Mississippi, is one reason why there is a dead zone hundreds of miles in area in the Gulf of Mexico. The extra nitrogen promotes the growth of too much algae that sucks up the oxygen and kills the fish. Similar story in the Chesapeake with all the industrial poultry operations dumping their manure into local streams...

You've made the same post at least ten times.

Again..it's your opinion..noone needs it or wants it.

We got it the first time.

You aen't going to change anyone's mind or position..

Why do you keep posting the same thing?

[nzucker]

You've made the same post at least ten times.

Again..it's your opinion..noone needs it or wants it.

We got it the first time.

Well it seems like most people are agreeing more with my position than yours.

And honestly, no one needs the bad forecasts...take a few met classes, or learn to read NWS AFDs, before attempting that nonsense again like you did this winter. It's honestly sickening to have to read "3-6 for the hills" over and over again when everyone knows it's not going to happen. Almost as sickening as the pesticides you use

[moneypitmike]

A fight in the lawn thread. Gotta love it.

69.0/57

[HoarfrostHubb]

Peepers out here. First time I heard them here was also yesterday.

I just put down some seed

[wokeupthisam]

A fight in the lawn thread. Gotta love it.

69.0/57

LOL, just what I was thinking. I'm shocked, SHOCKED to hear mention of something a few posts back, that has no place in a lawn thread, or any civilized discussion of any kind for that matter: I'm talking about the arch-enemy of mankind, the brussel sprout. I would rather eat my over-fertilized, pesticide-laden grass, than stick a fork into one of those foul balls and chomp down.

Again, does over-seeding require a machine, or is the grass seed just spread on top of existing grass?

[Damage In Tolland]

LOL, just what I was thinking. I'm shocked, SHOCKED to hear mention of something a few posts back, that has no place in a lawn thread, or any civilized discussion of any kind for that matter: I'm talking about the arch-enemy of mankind, the brussel sprout. I would rather eat my over-fertilized, pesticide-laden grass, than stick a fork into one of those foul balls and chomp down.

Again, does over-seeding require a machine, or is the grass seed just spread on top of existing grass?

If you are doing your whole lawn...I would recommend a machine or an apparatus of some kind.

if you're just doing spot areas..you can spread it by hand....but try to get a little soil on top of the seed so it doesn't wash away/get eaten by birds

[Logan11]

I have this little seed spreader device that you hold in your hand and turn a crank and it sprays the seed. Overall though I found it to be tedious and just went back to spreading by hand.

If you are doing your whole lawn...I would recommend a machine or an apparatus of some kind.

if you're just doing spot areas..you can spread it by hand....but try to get a little soil on top of the seed so it doesn't wash away/get eaten by birds

[Brian5671]

A fight in the lawn thread. Gotta love it.

69.0/57

you know times are tough when there's a fight over fertilizer...

[nzucker]

LOL, just what I was thinking. I'm shocked, SHOCKED to hear mention of something a few posts back, that has no place in a lawn thread, or any civilized discussion of any kind for that matter: I'm talking about the arch-enemy of mankind, the brussel sprout. I would rather eat my over-fertilized, pesticide-laden grass, than stick a fork into one of those foul balls and chomp down.

Brussels sprouts fresh from the garden are a totally different story from the woody ones you buy at the supermarket...good Brussels sprouts are quite small, tender and moist; they usually gain their best flavor after the first frost in October.

I harvested some dozens in Fall 2009, and they were awesome. One of the best things I've grown although it takes them a LONG time to mature.

[ski MRG]

Your winter forecast couldn't have been more wrong..and just a few weeks ago you thought Westchester Cty was gonna get 5-10 inches...LOL

Listen your whining and hippy, tree hugging nonsense is falling on deaf ears. I could care less what you think.

You do what you want and I'll do what I want..

Go out and toss the frisbee with the long haireds

LOL, Classic Kev.

[ski MRG]

I'm not in the suburbs and live on a quiet country road. I don't rake after I mow and I wait until the bitter end before doing anything with the autumnal leaves, but I do really enjoy having the lawn area looking reasonably nice. In fact, I took Kevin's advice and put down some lime, some seed, and some starter fertilizer yesterday evening. Now I'm really hoping for rain so nothing bad happens! I had expected some last night, but none. Hopefully will get some tonight.

Nice day out there. 69.1/56 off a high of 69.8.

Edit: noisy peepers. Heard them for the first time yesterday. Windows open, nice to hear them while working.

You've gone over to the dark side. What a shame.

[Logan11]

You'd be near your breaking point also if you had to endure this near 80F wx down here. Have pity on us.....

You've gone over to the dark side. What a shame.

[free_man]

That foul taste from Brussell sprouts generally is to do with Americans who do not know how to cook and prepare them properly. They are great when cooked right.

[Logan11]

I think they are very tasty and definitely like them more than their cousins in that vegetable group such as cabbage, etc. Also for those of us with shorter growing seasons they are hardy and can continue growing during some decent frosts.

That foul taste from Brussell sprouts generally is to do with Americans who do not know how to cook and prepare them properly. They are great when cooked right.

[ski MRG]

You'd be near your breaking point also if you had to endure this near 80F wx down here. Have pity on us.....

It's warming up here in the Susitna Valley too. No sign of the lawn though.

.TONIGHT...MOSTLY CLOUDY WITH SCATTERED SNOW SHOWERS. LOWS IN THE

TEENS TO LOWER 20S. LIGHT WINDS.

.MONDAY...NUMEROUS SNOW SHOWERS. SNOW ACCUMULATION UP TO 1 INCH.

HIGHS IN THE LOWER 30S TO LOWER 40S. LIGHT WINDS.

.MONDAY NIGHT...MOSTLY CLOUDY WITH SCATTERED SNOW SHOWERS. LOWS IN

THE TEENS TO LOWER 20S. NORTH WIND TO 15 MPH.

.TUESDAY...MOSTLY CLOUDY WITH ISOLATED SNOW SHOWERS IN THE

MORNING...THEN PARTLY CLOUDY IN THE AFTERNOON. HIGHS IN THE LOWER

30S TO LOWER 40S. NORTH WIND TO 15 MPH.

.TUESDAY NIGHT...PARTLY CLOUDY. LOWS 10 TO 20 ABOVE. NORTH WIND

TO 15 MPH.

.WEDNESDAY...MOSTLY SUNNY. HIGHS 35 TO 45.

.WEDNESDAY NIGHT AND THURSDAY...MOSTLY CLEAR. LOWS IN THE TEENS.

HIGHS 35 TO 45.

.THURSDAY NIGHT THROUGH SATURDAY...MOSTLY CLEAR. LOWS 15 TO 25.

HIGHS IN THE 40S.

.SATURDAY NIGHT AND SUNDAY...CLEAR. LOWS IN THE 20S. HIGHS IN THE

40S.

&&

[wokeupthisam]

I have this little seed spreader device that you hold in your hand and turn a crank and it sprays the seed. Overall though I found it to be tedious and just went back to spreading by hand.

thx - this year, I'll try spreading it by hand in a few smaller spots. I've seen the machines at the rental stores, but am concerned about the very shallow irrigation lines I have (thanks to numerous rocks that kicked up the ditch witch during installation).

[Duality]

thx - this year, I'll try spreading it by hand in a few smaller spots. I've seen the machines at the rental stores, but am concerned about the very shallow irrigation lines I have (thanks to numerous rocks that kicked up the ditch witch during installation).

slit seeders don't go down far to harm the lines unless your line is 1/4 in below the surface

[nzucker]

That foul taste from Brussell sprouts generally is to do with Americans who do not know how to cook and prepare them properly. They are great when cooked right.

What I like to do is blanch the Brussels sprouts (boil them for a few minutes in shallow water). After I blanch them, I shock them with very cold water to lock in the color and flavor. Then, I sauté the sprouts in a mixture of butter and olive oil, garlic, and fennel seeds...sprinkling with a lemon juice, salt and pepper, at the end. This is a delicious and simple way to prepare them, you can do the blanching and sautéing all in one pan...I use a trusty cast iron skillet, and it works well for both parts.

I think they are very tasty and definitely like them more than their cousins in that vegetable group such as cabbage, etc. Also for those of us with shorter growing seasons they are hardy and can continue growing during some decent frosts.

Yes, I like them best in that group...I do like cauliflower, however, and am growing some this season. Brussels sprouts are a wonderful crop if you live in New England/Upstate NY; they will survive temperatures in the 20s/30s and actually taste sweeter when they are harvested after a frost or two..I like to harvest them in early November here, as the sprouts really develop nicely when the weather cools down in mid-fall. My plants sometimes get a bit droopy in the heat of high summer in NYC metro, but they generally do well in this climate, and are delicious when the sprouts are young and small in the mid-late fall.

[Ginx snewx]

I'm not in the suburbs and live on a quiet country road. I don't rake after I mow and I wait until the bitter end before doing anything with the autumnal leaves, but I do really enjoy having the lawn area looking reasonably nice. In fact, I took Kevin's advice and put down some lime, some seed, and some starter fertilizer yesterday evening. Now I'm really hoping for rain so nothing bad happens! I had expected some last night, but none. Hopefully will get some tonight.

Nice day out there. 69.1/56 off a high of 69.8.

Edit: noisy peepers. Heard them for the first time yesterday. Windows open, nice to hear them while working.

Last Monday was the first day hearing peepers which told us the herring were running so stripers were in the rivers, sure enough big 30-36 inch stripers being caught.

[skierinvermont]

gardens and good landscaping >>> barren green wasteland

I work for a very nice elderly man who likes a solid green lawn and I hate using the fertilizer, herbicide, pesticide, fungicide etc. but I keep my mouth shut since he's a great guy and pays well. But I have to say I vastly prefer the work we do for an elderly woman creating a bird sanctuary full of wild flowers, lilac, dogwoods, black eyed susans, iris, day lilies, daffodils, crocuses, peonies etc. It looks beautiful.

I can definitely see the appeal of having the solid green lawns in smaller yards.. it probably is a little more aesthetically appealing although personally I still wouldn't use chemicals. But on the bigger open lawns I don't even really see the aesthetic appeal.. good landscaping will make a much bigger difference aesthetically IMO. Some ideas:

-vinca beds around trees

-climbing english ivy on well pruned old trees

-dogwoods

-daffodils and crocuses embedded in lawn for the spring

-stone walls (with english or boston ivy)

-plant hostas around trees

-plant japanese maple sapling surrounded with a bed of pachysandra

-well maintained flower beds nearer to the structures on the property with perrenials and annuals

-plant different tree varieties like cedars, pear, flowering crab apple for variety (none of those silly looking green shrubs you see at the cookie-cutter houses)

-stone patios and walkways, maybe line with boxwood

-edge the property with things like ferns, forsithia, shrubs or small trees

-water feature

I think any of these things make a tremendous improvement in the aesthetic of a property regardless of what the grass looks like. Some of these are pretty easy, cheap and permanent improvements that require little or no maintenance (unlike the lawn).

[nzucker]

gardens and good landscaping >>> barren green wasteland

I work for a very nice elderly man who likes a solid green lawn and I hate using the fertilizer, herbicide, pesticide, fungicide etc. but I keep my mouth shut since he's a great guy and pays well. But I have to say I vastly prefer the work we do for an elderly woman creating a bird sanctuary full of wild flowers, lilac, dogwoods, black eyed susans, iris, day lilies, daffodils, crocuses, peonies etc. It looks beautiful.

I can definitely see the appeal of having the solid green lawns in smaller yards.. it probably is a little more aesthetically appealing although personally I still wouldn't use chemicals. But on the bigger open lawns I don't even really see the aesthetic appeal.. good landscaping will make a much bigger difference aesthetically IMO. Some ideas:

-vinca beds around trees

-climbing english ivy on well pruned old trees

-dogwoods

-daffodils and crocuses embedded in lawn for the spring

-stone walls (with english or boston ivy)

-plant hostas around trees

-plant japanese maple sapling surrounded with a bed of pachysandra

-well maintained flower beds nearer to the structures on the property with perrenials and annuals

-plant different tree varieties like cedars, pear, flowering crab apple for variety (none of those silly looking green shrubs you see at the cookie-cutter houses)

-stone patios and walkways, maybe line with boxwood

-edge the property with things like ferns, forsithia, shrubs or small trees

-water feature

I think any of these things make a tremendous improvement in the aesthetic of a property regardless of what the grass looks like. Some of these are pretty easy, cheap and permanent improvements that require little or no maintenance (unlike the lawn).

Just use less of the fertilizers and herbicides when you work for him, I doubt an elderly guy is going to know or care...probably can't see what type of grass it is anyway! I think if you're serious on the landscaping business, you should start advertising that you'll convert lawns to organic and care for vegetable gardens for people. The population of Lyme is probably pretty similar to Westchester, lots of environmentally-conscious wealthy people with decent amounts of property who don't want to do the work themselves to have an ecologically sound property or to grow food, but are happy to hire someone for the image and benefits to the community that they perceive. One of my good HS friends just helped his parents convert their entire lawn to organic methods as well as build a small vegetable garden with tomatoes and peppers...they also installed a composter to reduce food waste, very intelligent. Another friend of mine from HS worked for a summer making vegetable gardens, and maintaining/harvesting them...working like 20 hours/week, he made thousands of dollars. I think if you put an advertisement in the local newspaper you'll get some business if landscaping is seriously your thing. People really want to make the move to organic and homegrown food but just don't feel they have the time/energy/knowledge...the tide is definitely turning in favor of local foods and sustainable landscaping, so this is your chance to jump in. A bunch of people are converting to organic lawns here in Westchester, might be some customers there. Seen a lot of vegetable gardens in the neighborhood too...my neighbor across the street has a big one, I've got a nice vegetable patch, my two close friends from HS both have vegetable gardens they help take care of..

It sounds like the lady's bird sanctuary has just about every plant we have here...we have a young lilac bush a friend just gave us, it seems to be budding nicely this year. There is a gorgeous mature dogwood behind our garage, looks amazing in the spring...our driveway is lined with crocus and daffodils for late March/early April, and we have a bunch of peonies in the front yard. I actually bought the peony seedlings when I was 10 years old, paying with my own money, since the flowers looked so attractive in the Spring Hill catalog...we first planted them at our vacation home in Pennsylvania but then realized they would grow better in a warmer climate, so we uprooted them and brought them to Dobbs Ferry. I was nervous about the transplant for such an expensive, fragile flower, but it worked well...Now they bloom gorgeous reds and pinks in the summer, amazing...they usually come out sometime in mid-June. At our house in PA we have day lilies (all different colors, and a tree lily, which you should definitely check out, it's amazing)...PLANT A TREE LILY IMMEDIATELY, I am not interested in flower gardening much but love this thing to death. We also have hosta lining the sides of the house since they prefer shade, both the variegated type and the solid green leaf. Have you seen the variegated ones before? I really like the purple flowers on the big hosta stalk, very attractive. Astilbe is another nice flower to use on the sides of houses and walkways...the plant needs a lot of water but produces gorgeous blooms. The black-eyed susans are down near the lake on our PA property, where they get the most sun...there are some types that last longer than others, and bloom at different times, so you can stagger them nicely...some will even last until September! I guess my family has similar tastes as the elderly woman.

Another good project for you would be to create a prairie, I've read about people doing this, supposedly it's difficult but possible. You either have to burn or remove all of the weeds/grasses from your lawn to make space...you can plant grasses like Canada rye, bluestem and porcupine grass...then you plant flowers like jewel weed, purple coneflower (beautiful), etc...Here is a website that shows you some of the different prairie vegetation:

http://www.bellmuseum.org/distancelearning/prairie/build/tc3.html

We've lost so much beautiful prairie in the US due to industrial-scale farming in the tallgrass prairies of the Dakotas, as well as in the short-grass prairies of Montana which have been turned over to ranching/livestock, which usually tramples the fragile ecosystem. So it would be cool to try to make one and restore this natural habitat. Apparently it's tough to keep seeds from other native plants out, but I have seen some examples online that worked.

Here is a picture of various astible, you should try these or recommend to customers as they do well in shadier areas where most things are slow to take...planting them alongside the house or garage is a really nice touch:

Tallgrass prairie in summer:

[Logan11]

Lots of good ideas there. The whole idea of the large lush green lawn is more of an American thing really. You go to the UK or parts of the Continent and they tend to call it their "back garden", etc... The grass is much more minimal and it is more dominated with flower beds, different types of ornamentals, flowering bushes, trees, etc. such as you describe. It's a lot more interesting. Often they will step them to make use of every bit of the scarcer land . You see a lot of ornamental ponds with wetlands growth around them for effect and stone pathways through the garden.

Just use less of the fertilizers and herbicides when you work for him, I doubt an elderly guy is going to know or care...probably can't see what type of grass it is anyway! I think if you're serious on the landscaping business, you should start advertising that you'll convert lawns to organic and care for vegetable gardens for people. The population of Lyme is probably pretty similar to Westchester, lots of environmentally-conscious wealthy people with decent amounts of property who don't want to do the work themselves to have an ecologically sound property or to grow food, but are happy to hire someone for the image and benefits to the community that they perceive. One of my good HS friends just helped his parents convert their entire lawn to organic methods as well as build a small vegetable garden with tomatoes and peppers...they also installed a composter to reduce food waste, very intelligent. Another friend of mine from HS worked for a summer making vegetable gardens, and maintaining/harvesting them...working like 20 hours/week, he made thousands of dollars. I think if you put an advertisement in the local newspaper you'll get some business if landscaping is seriously your thing. People really want to make the move to organic and homegrown food but just don't feel they have the time/energy/knowledge...the tide is definitely turning in favor of local foods and sustainable landscaping, so this is your chance to jump in. A bunch of people are converting to organic lawns here in Westchester, might be some customers there. Seen a lot of vegetable gardens in the neighborhood too...my neighbor across the street has a big one, I've got a nice vegetable patch, my two close friends from HS both have vegetable gardens they help take care of..

It sounds like the lady's bird sanctuary has just about every plant we have here...we have a young lilac bush a friend just gave us, it seems to be budding nicely this year. There is a gorgeous mature dogwood behind our garage, looks amazing in the spring...our driveway is lined with crocus and daffodils for late March/early April, and we have a bunch of peonies in the front yard. I actually bought the peony seedlings when I was 10 years old, paying with my own money, since the flowers looked so attractive in the Spring Hill catalog...we first planted them at our vacation home in Pennsylvania but then realized they would grow better in a warmer climate, so we uprooted them and brought them to Dobbs Ferry. I was nervous about the transplant for such an expensive, fragile flower, but it worked well...Now they bloom gorgeous reds and pinks in the summer, amazing...they usually come out sometime in mid-June. At our house in PA we have day lilies (all different colors, and a tree lily, which you should definitely check out, it's amazing)...PLANT A TREE LILY IMMEDIATELY, I am not interested in flower gardening much but love this thing to death. We also have hosta lining the sides of the house since they prefer shade, both the variegated type and the solid green leaf. Have you seen the variegated ones before? I really like the purple flowers on the big hosta stalk, very attractive. Astilbe is another nice flower to use on the sides of houses and walkways...the plant needs a lot of water but produces gorgeous blooms. The black-eyed susans are down near the lake on our PA property, where they get the most sun...there are some types that last longer than others, and bloom at different times, so you can stagger them nicely...some will even last until September! I guess my family has similar tastes as the elderly woman.

Another good project for you would be to create a prairie, I've read about people doing this, supposedly it's difficult but possible. You either have to burn or remove all of the weeds/grasses from your lawn to make space...you can plant grasses like Canada rye, bluestem and porcupine grass...then you plant flowers like jewel weed, purple coneflower (beautiful), etc...Here is a website that shows you some of the different prairie vegetation:

http://www.bellmuseu.../build/tc3.html

We've lost so much beautiful prairie in the US due to industrial-scale farming in the tallgrass prairies of the Dakotas, as well as in the short-grass prairies of Montana which have been turned over to ranching/livestock, which usually tramples the fragile ecosystem. So it would be cool to try to make one and restore this natural habitat. Apparently it's tough to keep seeds from other native plants out, but I have seen some examples online that worked.

Here is a picture of various astible, you should try these or recommend to customers as they do well in shadier areas where most things are slow to take...planting them alongside the house or garage is a really nice touch:

Tallgrass prairie in summer:

[S&P]

Kevin, you mentioned useing grub control in June - why di I have to wait so long?

I usually don't use pesticides but I'm at the end of my rope with the grubs.

Should I do all my seeding and fertilizing now then grub-x later?

as far as timing for grub control it depends on what you apply. some provide protection against eggs and new larvae and can be applied earlier (may) and some provide protection against mature adults (june-august).

if you have pets kids, put it down before a hard rain (lots of people on here to help with that call) if your concerned for their safety. if you live close to a water source and are concerned about doing harm should think twice about it.

here is an excellent source of information

http://www.turf.msu.edu/home-lawn-grub-control-products

ground temperature and moisture will drive success with germinating grass seed. most sites suggest soil temperature of >65 degrees to have some succes growing grass seed (need some warm days and nights to get it there) Fall is best time to grow grass, but you can seed now but make sure u water heavily/soak ground until the grass is healthy /mature. CG preventer application will prevent grass seed from germinating as well.

[Mr. Windcredible!]

Anyone else notice black flies are out earlier and in greater numbers than usual? I don't know how I'm gonna get work done outside...I'm swatting them away every minute. Any suggestions on what best keeps them tolerable?

[HIPPYVALLEY]

as far as timing for grub control it depends on what you apply. some provide protection against eggs and new larvae and can be applied earlier (may) and some provide protection against mature adults (june-august).

if you have pets kids, put it down before a hard rain (lots of people on here to help with that call) if your concerned for their safety. if you live close to a water source and are concerned about doing harm should think twice about it.

here is an excellent source of information

http://www.turf.msu....ontrol-products

ground temperature and moisture will drive success with germinating grass seed. most sites suggest soil temperature of >65 degrees to have some succes growing grass seed (need some warm days and nights to get it there) Fall is best time to grow grass, but you can seed now but make sure u water heavily/soak ground until the grass is healthy /mature. CG preventer application will prevent grass seed from germinating as well.

Thanks!

[Tropopause_Fold]

Yeah we have a pretty nice yard but as I've mentioned before it's mostly Pachysandra/Vinca for ground cover and then Rhododendron, Hydrangea, and Lilac bushes on the sides...not much to walk on. But it's an easy way to keep things looking decent without too much labor or pesticides.

As Joe mentioned, some golf courses like Martha's Vineyard are able to be 100% organic...so why not more? With the fees they're charging, you'd expect they'd have enough money to give something back, no?

Also, why do we care so much about appearances in American society? In other words, why should we think of ourselves as being judged by what type of lawn we have, in the eyes of the neighborhood? It's such a superficial judgment and just a result of the capitalist consumer society that expects us to want everything to look like a "product" instead of what it is, which is nature.

LOL.

i'm going to dump a whole bag of Step 1 into the marsh near my house.