Eugene Wahl Confirms..Mann asked him to delete Emails

[stellarfun]

Its the specific emails on the AR4 matter we're looking for, not every email Mann sent.

So now you agree that Mann sent emails to CRU, and they exist. How do you know that the other emails you are looking for ever existed?

[BethesdaWX]

So now you agree that Mann sent emails to CRU, and they exist. How do you know that the other emails you are looking for ever existed?

What?

Mann's AR4 emails were obviously deleted from CRU, as they were NOT revealed in Climategate...aka, they were not there.

I read all the climategate emails...raw. Do you want a link to them?

[stellarfun]

What?

Mann's AR4 emails were obviously deleted from CRU, as they were NOT revealed in Climategate...aka, they were not there.

I read all the climategate emails...raw. Do you want a link to them?

Why should I read a link to a set of emails that don't contain the emails that you insist once existed.

You are engaged in trying to have everyone prove a negative..

[BethesdaWX]

Why should I read a link to a set of emails that don't contain the emails that you insist once existed.

You are engaged in trying to have everyone prove a negative..

huh?

All emails sent (non-deleted) were revealed at climategate. You said they existed and weren't deleted, I'm offering to post a link to all the CRU climategate emails so you can see for yourself that they no longer existed at the time of the hacking.

We know Michael Mann corresponded with CRU, thus the emails have to be destroyed. Wahls even said he deleted some of Mann's emails via the forwarded message...Phil Jones asking Michael Mann to delete emails.

Him being at PSU, if his emails were still in existance, PSU would have used the ones from his PC...yet they got their emails from the CRY climategate emails...nothing came from Mann's "sent" folder.

So, where are they?

[skierinvermont]

A.) How do you know that? If those emails don't exist, how do you know they ever existed?

Uhh, because we know he corresponded with CRU.

First you claimed that no emails by Michael Mann were revealed in the Climategate emails. This is patently false, as 206 of the emails were authored by Mann.

Then you claimed that none of them were pertaining to AR4. This is blatantly false, as many of them were concerning AR4.

Then you claimed that the ones relating to Steve McIntyre's FOI request are missing. You have no idea whether Mann corresponded with the CRU concerning McIntyre's FOI request.

And this is all moot anyways, because Mann provided a full record of his emails to the PSU inquiry.

[skierinvermont]

huh?

All emails sent (non-deleted) were revealed at climategate. You said they existed and weren't deleted, I'm offering to post a link to all the CRU climategate emails so you can see for yourself that they no longer existed at the time of the hacking.

We know Michael Mann corresponded with CRU, thus the emails have to be destroyed. Wahls even said he deleted some of Mann's emails via the forwarded message...Phil Jones asking Michael Mann to delete emails.

Him being at PSU, if his emails were still in existance, PSU would have used the ones from his PC...yet they got their emails from the CRY climategate emails...nothing came from Mann's "sent" folder.

So, where are they?

How do you know email by Mann concerning the McIntyre FOI request even exist?

[skierinvermont]

So now you agree that Mann sent emails to CRU, and they exist. How do you know that the other emails you are looking for ever existed?

Because Anthony Watts claims they do. He's parroting this back directly from WUWT...

[BethesdaWX]

How do you know email by Mann concerning the McIntyre FOI request even exist?

I never said Mann responded directly to him, But Micintyre was the whole reason emails were deleted in the first place.

[BethesdaWX]

First you claimed that no emails by Michael Mann were revealed in the Climategate emails. This is patently false, as 206 of the emails were authored by Mann.

Then you claimed that none of them were pertaining to AR4. This is blatantly false, as many of them were concerning AR4.

Then you claimed that the ones relating to Steve McIntyre's FOI request are missing. You have no idea whether Mann corresponded with the CRU concerning McIntyre's FOI request.

And this is all moot anyways, because Mann provided a full record of his emails to the PSU inquiry.

Use your brain, come on now.

Mann didn't "provide" anything, PSU reviewed CRU emails from climategate, as the reference. If you are going to make claims, you need to back them up.

Again, I'll give you the link if you wish.

The Moot Point is that Emails were Deleted, and Mann forwarded a message "ASAP" to Wahls, telling him to Delete emails! If Mann forwarded a Message to Wahls telling him to Delete emails........it means that, In reaily, MANN INTENTIONALLY FORWARDED A MESSAGE TO WAHLS TELLING HIM TO DELETE EMAILS.

Thus, Mann Intentionally, and Indirectly, Participated in the deletion of emails thru forwarding a message telling a co-worker to delete emails.

Either way, you do not Delete emails to avoid FOI from a Skeptics who challenge the data.

That is against policy.

[skierinvermont]

Use your brain, come on now.

Mann didn't "provide" anything, PSU reviewed CRU emails from climategate, as the reference. If you are going to make claims, you need to back them up.

Stellarfun has already provided a direct quote and link from the PSU inquiry stating that Mann provided a .zip file containing a full record of all of his emails concerning AR4.

This directly contradicts your assertions. I'm done here. I have no interest in conspiracy theories from WUWT.

[BethesdaWX]

Stellarfun has already provided a direct quote and link from the PSU inquiry stating that Mann provided a .zip file containing a full record of all of his emails concerning AR4.

This directly contradicts your assertions. I'm done here. I have no interest in conspiracy theories from WUWT.

Stay on topic, and quit the bullsh*t. There is no conspiracy here, everything is publicly available.

The emails Mann gave are available thru the climategate email download...this has nothing to do with the point at hand regardless about the PSU inquiry. Again, don't try to change the focus, its not gonna work bro.

Mann Intentionally forwarded a message asking Wahls to delete emails, thus he intentionally, and indirectly, participated in the proccess of deleting emails...case closed.

Mann/Jones/Keith completely Chickened out...they obviously were being questioned by Mcintyre, who had been tearing apart their work....so all correspondance between the two was cut off like it never happened.

A bunch of wussies.

[skierinvermont]

You claimed PSU only reviewed climategate emails, and that Mann has not released a full record of his emails (in addition to the leaked ones).

I pointed out this is blatantly false. Mann presented a .zip file of all his emails to PSU.

In return, you tell me I am full of **** and call the scientists involved a bunch of wussies. You manufacture blatant lies and then refuse to admit you are wrong when direct evidence is presented.

[BethesdaWX]

You claimed PSU only reviewed climategate emails, and that Mann has not released a full record of his emails (in addition to the leaked ones).

I pointed out this is blatantly false. Mann presented a .zip file of all his emails to PSU.

In return, you tell me I am full of **** and call the scientists involved a bunch of wussies. You manufacture blatant lies and then refuse to admit you are wrong when direct evidence is presented.

I never insulted you, and never lied to you. Are you my wife?

But really, that is what I think

1) The emails Mann gave are available thru the climategate email download...this has nothing to do with the point at hand regardless about the PSU inquiry. Again, don't try to change the focus, its not gonna work bro.

2) Mann Intentionally forwarded a message asking Wahls to delete emails, thus he intentionally, and indirectly, participated in the proccess of deleting emails...case closed.

3) Mann/Jones/Keith completely Chickened out...they obviously were being questioned by Mcintyre, who had been tearing apart their work....so all correspondance between the two was cut off like it never happened.

ok?

[skierinvermont]

I never insulted you, and never lied to you. Are you my wife?

But really, that is what I think

1) The emails Mann gave are available thru the climategate email download...this has nothing to do with the point at hand regardless about the PSU inquiry. Again, don't try to change the focus, its not gonna work bro.

2) Mann Intentionally forwarded a message asking Wahls to delete emails, thus he intentionally, and indirectly, participated in the proccess of deleting emails...case closed.

3) Mann/Jones/Keith completely Chickened out...they obviously were being questioned by Mcintyre, who had been tearing apart their work....so all correspondance between the two was cut off like it never happened.

ok?

You are the one changing the topic. You specifically stated that he did not provide a full record of his emails to PSU. This is blatantly false. Other posters have directly linked you to the inquiry statement that he provided a full record of his emails.

You specifically stated that emails of his are missing. This is blatantly false, as we have a full public record of his emails.

Mann/Jones/Keith didn't completely chicken out. In terms of the actual substance of their work, it is generally recognized that the Ammann Wahl paper refutes much of the M&M critique, and that the remaining valid criticisms make very little difference to MBH. McIntyre has basically stopped complaining about the substance of the work and is left complaining about perceived professional snubs and the fact that the Wahl and Amann paper was included past the deadline. Notice that he's left complaining about deadlines, and has no good response to the actual substance of Wahl and Amann.

[BethesdaWX]

You are the one changing the topic. You specifically stated that he did not provide a full record of his emails to PSU. This is blatantly false. Other posters have directly linked you to the inquiry statement that he provided a full record of his emails.

You specifically stated that emails of his are missing. This is blatantly false, as we have a full public record of his emails.

Mann/Jones/Keith didn't completely chicken out. In terms of the actual substance of their work, it is generally recognized that the Ammann Wahl paper refutes much of the M&M critique, and that the remaining valid criticisms make very little difference to MBH. McIntyre has basically stopped complaining about the substance of the work and is left complaining about perceived professional snubs and the fact that the Wahl and Amann paper was included past the deadline. Notice that he's left complaining about deadlines, and has no good response to the actual substance of Wahl and Amann.

dude, how about you read. This is why you continue to make errors.

1) Mann's email replying to Keith regarding AR4 is what is under question, NOT the general AR4 issue. There was no emails between keith/mann regarding AR4.

2) I said Mann's emails are available at the climategate download...that is where PSU linked the emails from! Not anything Mann provided.

3) CRU ignored Mcintyre after the issue...aka, he was shut out. Thus his questions were never answered. Thats called chickening out, when they were challenged, they cowered in a corner.

Mike,

Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4? Keith will do likewise. He’s not in at the moment – minor family crisis Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same? I don’t have his new email address. We will be getting Caspar to do likewise

Here is the real issue that you deny

Mann Intentionally forwarded a message asking Wahls to delete emails, thus he intentionally, and indirectly, participated in the proccess of deleting emails...case closed