general march discussion

[nzucker]

for me locally, the 2 big ones this year were both better than PDII.

1996 still pretty much stomped this winter (locally)......... however, back to back 50"+ winters is extraordinary... and is right up there in the "you'll be telling your grandchildren" category.

09-10/10-11 FTW

26" blizzard here last Feb 25th, 48" that month with 68" on the season

3 12" storms this year with 66" and 2 months solid snow cover.

3 KU storms/year

WE ROCK!

[green tube]

WE ROCK!

lol. last night i was going for my daily run.... i was bored.... dragging... didnt really want to be running.... and then i just started thinking about the sights during those 2 big storms this year and it gave me adrenalin and ooomph.

[A-L-E-X]

for me locally, the 2 big ones this year were both better than PDII.

1996 still pretty much stomped this winter (locally)......... however, back to back 50"+ winters is extraordinary... and is right up there in the "you'll be telling your grandchildren" category.

Sure is-- I wonder if this is "more rare" or the four back to back 40"+ winters from 02-03 to 05-06 winters are more rare. I would say this is more rare, because 05-06 wasnt much of a winter outside of one big storm.

[A-L-E-X]

Wow....and you probably average quite a bit more than I. That's a bit disappointing. You were pretty screwed with Boxing Day too, I shared in that painful affair.

But no one can be too upset given the strong Niña and lucky turns we've seen...

Those poor people in eastern PA probably had an even worse winter-- I remember seeing Scranton's snowfall total was far less than ours. Although my sister in the Poconos is still reporting a widespread 6"+ snowcover.

[Dark Energy]

Hmm, some signs of a wintry mix over the higher terrain with the system Tue night??? Temps should rise ovn so it would have to be early on as the waa precip moves in. Ridge moves offshore so SE flow. Would like to see that NE for more of a threat. Meh, we're reaching at this point till we get the blocking back. Too bad snow lovers couldn;'t have the blocking sooner. The longer it waits, the less of an effect the NAO has we head into spring.

[Stormlover74]

And we could be looking at back to back Marches with no measurable snowfall. On top of that we are on pace for a much above normal month temperature wise. Last year everything bloomed a full 2 weeks ahead of schedule and we had the major April heatwave too of course

last 2 winters have been pretty fantastic.... yet a bit schitzo IMBY... these numbers are kinda nuts....

snow totals:

jan 2010 .5"

jan 2011 33.5"

feb 2010 40.0"

feb 2011 1.0"

[Weathergun]

I think we could see 70's over NYC Metro and SW on Friday. Both 0z Euro and 6z GFS show 850mb temps of 10C, during the afternoon. After that we'll see what type of blocking (if any) develops and prevents us from torching again next week. The GFS and Euro and their ensembles still disagree.

[Chris L]

Yeah, this winter isnt exactly the best possible.... I would have ranked 1995-96 and 2002-03 both well above it.... because I prize longevity more than anything else (and big storms a close 2nd.) While the snowstorms we saw earlier in the winter were very good, they werent on the level of Jan 96 or PD2.

I fully disagree about December 2010 Blizzard. It truly was a faster version of January 1996. It fell in 18-20 hours... Four more hours of that blizzard would have easily exceeded January 1996.

24-30 inches of snow in 18-20 hour period is quite stunning. There is no doubt Newark would have hit 30", it just lasted 4 more hours of moderate-heavy snow.

Belmar had 31" of snow from that, not even the Blizzard of '96 had that total there.

[Stormlover74]

Was a very different storm though. Much more dynamic and the heaviest amounts were much more localized. the places that topped 30" had the bulk of their snow in 8 to 10 hours but I dont see how they could have sustained those rates for a full 24 hours. We would have been talking about 5 to 6 feet of snow.

I fully disagree about December 2010 Blizzard. It truly was a faster version of January 1996. It fell in 18-20 hours... Four more hours of that blizzard would have easily exceeded January 1996.

24-30 inches of snow in 18-20 hour period is quite stunning. There is no doubt Newark would have hit 30", it just lasted 4 more hours of moderate-heavy snow.

[Chris L]

Was a very different storm though. Much more dynamic and the heaviest amounts were much more localized. the places that topped 30" had the bulk of their snow in 8 to 10 hours but I dont see how they could have sustained those rates for a full 24 hours. We would have been talking about 5 to 6 feet of snow.

They certaintly wouldn't be able to hold it for 24 hours, that is insane.

But addiotnal 4-5 hours of heavy snow rate certaintly is possible, which could have happened.

but, January 1996 is still the king for New Jersey, still.

[Allsnow]

They certaintly wouldn't be able to hold it for 24 hours, that is insane.

But addiotnal 4-5 hours of heavy snow rate certaintly is possible, which could have happened.

but, January 1996 is still the king for New Jersey, still.

For the parkway east no way.....sucks that the rest of the state missed out. The power of that storm is Somthing 96 never had. Plus boxing day had a way bigger impact on the city then 96

[ag3]

For the parkway east no way.....sucks that the rest of the state missed out. The power of that storm is Somthing 96 never had. Plus boxing day had a way bigger impact on the city then 96

I beg to differ. Especially for Queens.

[Allsnow]

I beg to differ. Especially for Queens.

In no way am I shock that you feel this way. But its tru. Plus I thought you complain how ur street wasnot plowed for days and 5 foot drifts down city streets. That met volk posted in a thread saying that he did a study on how boxing day impacts where alot greater then 96. That storm was a tru blizzard and power was awsome

[ag3]

In no way am I shock that you feel this way. But its tru. Plus I thought you complain how ur street wasnot plowed for days and 5 foot drifts down city streets. That met volk posted in a thread saying that he did a study on how boxing day impacts where alot greater then 96. That storm was a tru blizzard and power was awsome

We're talking about plowing?

Im talking amount of snow. 1996 had much more snow then boxing day for all of Queens. 25"+, including on all side streets and main streets. Plowing was better during 1996; that I agree with; but it was still a very disruptive storm that had an impact for at least a week.

1996 was very disruptive in Queens and LI.

[Stormlover74]

Again what made Boxing Day 2010 so special was essentially what prevented it from being a repeat of 96. In otherwords those type of dynamics, wind, intensity of the storm, it was more like 2/2006 and fairly localized with the heaviest amounts whereas 96 was a much more widespread synoptic event. If you got into those strong bands you got 24-32", whereas if you were 15-25 miles east or west you got a third to half that amount. Didnt see that disparity in 96.

[tornadojay]

Again what made Boxing Day 2010 so special was essentially what prevented it from being a repeat of 96. In otherwords those type of dynamics, wind, intensity of the storm, it was more like 2/2006 and fairly localized with the heaviest amounts whereas 96 was a much more widespread synoptic event. If you got into those strong bands you got 24-32", whereas if you were 15-25 miles east or west you got a third to half that amount. Didnt see that disparity in 96.

yep, agree. Boxing Day storm only gave me 12 inches up my way and probably within 30 miles east, they easily got double to tripple that... Blizzard of 96 had large area of 2 plus foot snowfall. I believe I had roughly 26-28 inches from that one.... but both storms are still very impressive and should be very highly regarded as some of the great NYC storms of our time.

[Chris L]

For the parkway east no way.....sucks that the rest of the state missed out. The power of that storm is Somthing 96 never had. Plus boxing day had a way bigger impact on the city then 96

Impact, I agree.

but snow total wise, still is the king.

Dec 2010 is my favorite of all time, though.

[ag3]

Impact, I agree.

but snow total wise, still is the king.

Dec 2010 is my favorite of all time, though.

Pure power and dynamics wise, maybe.

For my part of Queens, it wasnt even my favorite storm this year. Jan. 26-27 was my favorite storm this winter. The snowfall rates of 2"-4" an hour for 4-5 hours straight was just awsome from 12:00a.m.-4:00a.m.

I think a lot of Queens people were sleeping during these amazing snowfall rates during Jan. 26-27.

[tornadojay]

also... though the Jan 96 storm had a very large coverage of mega amounts of snow, it should not be forgotten that even this storm had it's incredible gradients of snowfall... just not in our neck of the woods.. it was just south of Albany where areas that were literally 15-30 miles from each other got either 2 inches or 2 feet of snow.

[IsentropicLift]

Boxing Day had a greater impact than 96 over a more isolated area. 96 had an incredibly long duration and affected many more people. The area affected plays a major role in the difference between a MECS and a HECS. Look at the record snowfall in the DC area last winter, or the late February storm which gave West Milford 18" of snow but Ramsey just 4.5". It can not be considered to be a HECS unless you have a tremendously large area with 20"+ totals.

PDII forecast

96 totals

Boxing Day

I'm having a hard time finding a similar map for Boxing Day, but you get the idea that the enormous amounts were much more isolated than the only 2 HECS I have lived through.

[tornadojay]

Boxing Day had a greater impact than 96 over a more isolated area. 96 had an incredibly long duration and affected many more people. The area affected plays a major role in the difference between a MECS and a HECS. Look at the record snowfall in the DC area last winter, or the late February storm which gave West Milford 18" of snow but Ramsey just 4.5". It can not be considered to be a HECS unless you have a tremendously large area with 20"+ totals.

PDII forecast

96 totals

Boxing Day

I'm having a hard time finding a similar map for Boxing Day, but you get the idea that the enormous amounts were much more isolated than the only 2 HECS I have lived through.

glad you found that 96 map.. I was just talking about the amazing snowfall gradient just south of the Albany NY area. You can really see it on this map.

[Stormlover74]

But that was mostly on the northern edge. The precip ran into a brick wall but still made it much further north than originally expected. I think the same thing happened where Erie got next to nothing but not too far away in central PA amounts were up to 18". Boxing Day had sharp cutoffs in all directions and again what made that storm so special for some made it a disappointment for others. Dont know that we'll see an event that dumps 30-36" of snow over a widespread area (200 mile swath or greater).

also... though the Jan 96 storm had a very large coverage of mega amounts of snow, it should not be forgotten that even this storm had it's incredible gradients of snowfall... just not in our neck of the woods.. it was just south of Albany where areas that were literally 15-30 miles from each other got either 2 inches or 2 feet of snow.

[tornadojay]

But that was mostly on the northern edge. The precip ran into a brick wall but still made it much further north than originally expected. I think the same thing happened where Erie got next to nothing but not too far away in central PA amounts were up to 18". Boxing Day had sharp cutoffs in all directions and again what made that storm so special for some made it a disappointment for others. Dont know that we'll see an event that dumps 30-36" of snow over a widespread area (200 mile swath or greater).

yea.. a widespread 30-36 inch snowfall takes something very special.. probably something on the order of a 1899 storm.

[Chris L]

Boxing Day had a greater impact than 96 over a more isolated area. 96 had an incredibly long duration and affected many more people. The area affected plays a major role in the difference between a MECS and a HECS. Look at the record snowfall in the DC area last winter, or the late February storm which gave West Milford 18" of snow but Ramsey just 4.5". It can not be considered to be a HECS unless you have a tremendously large area with 20"+ totals.

PDII forecast

96 totals

Boxing Day

I'm having a hard time finding a similar map for Boxing Day, but you get the idea that the enormous amounts were much more isolated than the only 2 HECS I have lived through.

I guess February 2006 for NYC wasn't a HECS? come on man.

[green tube]

Sure is-- I wonder if this is "more rare" or the four back to back 40"+ winters from 02-03 to 05-06 winters are more rare. I would say this is more rare, because 05-06 wasnt much of a winter outside of one big storm.

that's a tough call.

locally down here (looking at rutgers records), since the 1890s, there have been about 21 winters with at least 40"

but only about 10 winters have made it to 50"+

[IsentropicLift]

I guess February 2006 for NYC wasn't a HECS? come on man.

HECS means "HISTORIC EAST COAST STORM" Not Historic storm for NYC area. Boxing Day was close to historic for NYC metro only, just like Feb 10 was historic for DC area but nobody else.

Here is Feb 06, not even close to 96 or 03 in terms of impact

[Chris L]

HECS means "HISTORIC EAST COAST STORM" Not Historic storm for NYC area. Boxing Day was close to historic for NYC metro only, just like Feb 10 was historic for DC area but nobody else.

Here is Feb 06, not even close to 96 or 03 in terms of impact

By that logic, we only had two historic snowstorms... JAN 1996 and Feb 03. Doesn't make any sense. February 6, 2010 had 30" inches of snow for Balitmore Maryland, that wasn't a HECS, what do you call it then? And 28.5" in Philly.

I bet people of DC-BWI would call it a HECS.

[IsentropicLift]

In my opinion, a storm can only be labeled as a HISTORIC EAST COAST storm when it's Historic for a majority of the east coast snowbelt.

96 and 03 are the ONLY HECS in my lifetime. 1985-present. All others fit into the catagory of being MECS.

[Allsnow]

For mby I rank boxing day number one. I kno people like to look for snow amounts and region covered. But by dc not seeing a flake does not make or break that storm for me. I saw a hundred stranded cars on the express lane on the parkway between Holmdel and red bank. All had 6 ft drifts around them. My area def took the brunt of it. Toms river had 30 inches from that. Plus with the strong winds it hamper the snow growth, so def the 1-26 had a better show for pure rate.

[Chris L]

In my opinion, a storm can only be labeled as a HISTORIC EAST COAST storm when it's Historic for a majority of the east coast snowbelt.

96 and 03 are the ONLY HECS in my lifetime. 1985-present. All others fit into the catagory of being MECS.

That is just way too hard to do.