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March 4-8 Upstate NY / North Country Winter Storm


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We got lucky with yesterday's storm, and got a lot of heavy wet snow instead of the rain that was forcasted.. Can we luck out 2 systems in a row? I hope so, even though it's not looking good right now, but things can always change.. Otherwise, we can say asta la vista to our snowpack!

Cheers,

Scratch

long live the SE trend!!!

:arrowhead:

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Ok, I had to look this up. From a dragon to a woman warrior. ;)

haha....I take it you have played Ultima VII? Was, and is, one of my favourite games!

if you cant get excited about this setup,

you probably shouldnt be following the weather. :lol:

I am in love with the current GFS run!

You were right....tracking is an illness...and an addiction! I think once this winter is over, I will have to go see a cardiologist.

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haha....I take it you have played Ultima VII? Was, and is, one of my favourite games!

I am in love with the current GFS run!

You were right....tracking is an illness...and an addiction! I think once this winter is over, I will have to go see a cardiologist.

:lol:

yeah the 18z GFS is pretty incredible for ottawa, if that second storm were about another 50 miles west :o

all in all, shows the complexity of the setup but all the models now are back to the original BIG idea a few days ago of a slow moving baroclinic zone with a strong series of wave with copious qpf, and then the leftover energy forming a neg tilt trough in the S which then comes north.

thats what caught my eye a few days ago when i started posting in the upstate main thread.......the *potential* setup really is the stuff weather weenie dreams are made of lol.

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Sorry about the n00b question but it is genuine.

I understand there's a lot of skepticism about the model output at this point.

It seems to be mainly centered around the outrageous amounts of precip. I see that part.

Is there something else you're seeing that gives pause? Should I be seeing something else wrong in the overall pattern?

Is it just a general gestalt that this doesn't make sense? Something else?

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Sorry about the n00b question but it is genuine.

I understand there's a lot of skepticism about the model output at this point.

It seems to be mainly centered around the outrageous amounts of precip. I see that part.

Is there something else you're seeing that gives pause? Should I be seeing something else wrong in the overall pattern?

Is it just a general gestalt that this doesn't make sense? Something else?

personally im laughing more out of disbelief at the numbers being printed out.

that being said, its been a very strong lead signal (since day 10) that the qpf was going to be off the charts possibly.....so its not entirely unrelaistic when ALL models are showing this potential. perhaps they will tone it down as we get closer, but noone should say we werent warned well in advance by the models if there are big qpf numbers.

another question is whether the qpf gets more spread out over a larger area with 2 distinct waves rather than concentrated on one general area due to the slow moving nature of the trough. usually these things speed up as we get closer, or spread out a bit in coverage.

so far, the models havent backed down from the huge outputs though.

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okay, so I check the board for the first time today and discover that we may be in for the storm of the century? :lol:

Interestingly, it looks like there might be a brief break in the precip Sunday afternoon and evening, meaning i might just be able to host the social gathering I've planned. I guess if it looks really bad (from a travelling perspective) I'll just postpone it.

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Btw...while we're on the subject of flooding, if you ever wondered how you effectively remove an ice jam, then read the bolded below...

AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BINGHAMTON NY

1014 PM EST TUE MAR 1 2011

HYDROLOGY...

-- Changed Discussion --THE ICE JAM ON THE COHOCTON RIVER NEAR CAMPBELL HAS BROKEN UP AND THEREFORE THE THREAT FOR FLOODING HAS ENDED. THIS WAS CONFIRMED BY LOCAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT. IN ADDITION THE RIVER GAGE JUST UPSTREAM FROM THE JAM HAS SHOWN A SHARP DROP IN THE RIVER LEVEL THIS EVENING. THE COMBINATION OF DYNAMITE AND A BACKHOE HELPED TO BREAK UP THE JAM THIS AFTERNOON.

:lmao:

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GFS has defintely sunk the bz zone S and E just a bit more

unquestionably all snow in ottawa through montreal .....

1-2 feet , nice to look at

looking at the h5, doesnt look like the 2nd low will develop or develop in time.

all in all just another model run in a complex scenario that we will not know the answer for a while

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GFS has defintely sunk the bz zone S and E just a bit more

unquestionably all snow in ottawa through montreal .....

1-2 feet , nice to look at

looking at the h5, doesnt look like the 2nd low will develop or develop in time.

all in all just another model run in a complex scenario that we will not know the answer for a while

Hmm... yea, just barely. The Catskills and HV from New Paltz north (points east) are caked in 8+ with Round 2 in the form of the coastal.

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Hmm... yea, just barely. The Catskills and HV from New Paltz north to GFL (points east) are caked in 8+ with Round 2 in the form of the coastal.

yeah the enery at 120 hours just didnt sharpen the trough enough in the S, its still there but not as impressive. good news is the trough postion is the same as 18z so the storm could come west some if the energy cooperates

anyways, looking at something 5 days out is just hearsay.:lol:

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00Z GFS is indeed delicious to look at. Winters redemption! tongue.gif

A question....since I just started following models....are models usually this variable in forecasts or has this been a season of exceptions? I mean, I have seen model forecasts change in very short ranges. Do medium range forecasts usually pan out as modeled...in other words, is there a "days range" for certain models in which they obtain a reasonable level of accuracy in predictions?

I hope the gist of my question is clear...I am having a hard time phrasing it! I ask this with a slight professional interest...I do research in AI, and am curious as to the possibility of having models "learn from mistakes". Sort of like adding the human (meteorologist) element of learning from "inaccurate forecasts" to models. (I haven't yet explored this issue or done any survey of whether this has been tried, so maybe this point is moot!)

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00Z GFS is indeed delicious to look at. Winters redemption! tongue.gif

A question....since I just started following models....are models usually this variable in forecasts or has this been a season of exceptions? I mean, I have seen model forecasts change in very short ranges. Do medium range forecasts usually pan out as modeled...in other words, is there a "days range" for certain models in which they obtain a reasonable level of accuracy in predictions?

I hope the gist of my question is clear...I am having a hard time phrasing it! I ask this with a slight professional interest...I do research in AI, and am curious as to the possibility of having models "learn from mistakes". Sort of like adding the human (meteorologist) element of learning from "inaccurate forecasts" to models. (I haven't yet explored this issue or done any survey of whether this has been tried, so maybe this point is moot!)

yes, the models can be widely variable at this range. its essentialyl been a normal season.

i dont trust the models outside of 48-60 hours. its a lot to ask them to nail it beyond that period.

sometimes big storms just disappear outside that period entirely.

i dont know that much about how the models are built, but if you go to the main forum and look for it, there are a couple threads started by mets (dtk & baroclinic instability) come to mind, discussing the models technical aspects and performance and improvement....some grat info there if you are interested.

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