Baroclinic Zone Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 These are 2 of the classic winter storm tracks that are discussed on the board. A Miller A storm has a primary storm, with no secondary development, that rides up along the coast or spine of the Appalachians typically. The March 1993 Super Bomb was just one of these. http://www.meteo.psu...1993/us0313.php A Miller B has a primary storm track that comes out or Alberta, Canada that spawns a secondary storm along the east coast from the Carolina's all the way up the coast. The January 2005 Blizzard in New England was a classic Miller B. http://www.meteo.psu...2005/us0122.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 Good illustration I like Miller B's, but will take plenty of either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baroclinic Zone Posted November 26, 2010 Author Share Posted November 26, 2010 Good illustration I like Miller B's, but will take plenty of either... Miller B are are better for New England. Rule #1 of a Miller B is somebody is going to get screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowNH Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 Miller B are are better for New England. Rule #1 of a Miller B is somebody is going to get screwed. As in dry slot? or R/S line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baroclinic Zone Posted November 26, 2010 Author Share Posted November 26, 2010 As in dry slot? or R/S line? Dryslot. As the primary system dies off and the secondary takes over at the coast there is that area in between that gets the royal screw job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryslot Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 If i had a choice i would prefer the Mille B's here, Miller A's Have a hard time getting to this latitude up here as they trend to move NE around SNE or out to sea before ever reching the GOM a lot of the times, Not saying all of them but most........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OKpowdah Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 This past summer I did a study of NH snow storms, classifying them as Miller A, Miller B, and SWF (overrunning). Here's a few very generalized composites in the order: Miller A, Miller B (via clipper), Miller B (via Colorado low), SWF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryslot Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 This past summer I did a study of NH snow storms, classifying them as Miller A, Miller B, and SWF (overrunning). Here's a few very generalized composites in the order: Miller A, Miller B (via clipper), Miller B (via Colorado low), SWF Those are good graphic depictions of the different scenarios........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 As long as it's not Miller Lite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OKpowdah Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 Those are good graphic depictions of the different scenarios........ Thanks. I would post more of the detailed composites, but I'm working with 26.4K dialup right now Working with storms since 1978, I came up with 13 Millar A's, 25 Miller B's, and 11 SWF/Overrunning. Between 1978 and 2007, only storms with accumulation >12" in a decently populated area were used. I weighted snowfall totals by population (only for NH), and came up with composites for strong and weak cases of each storm type. Here's what I got for the top 10 storms 2001-03-06 1993-03-14 1978-02-07 2003-12-08 2001-02-05 2003-02-18 1982-04-07 2003-01-04 1987-01-03 1984-03-14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryslot Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 As long as it's not Miller Lite. No, It would be the Miller G............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROOSTA Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 Bob I'm glad you brought this to table. I had made a comment on the previous forum on the type of winter and predominent storm type. Never did respond probably should have. I always thought in simplistic terms that Miller A's where cylones that form on a front and pretty-much stay intact, the Miller B's had some type of transfer regardless of where the storm intially developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryslot Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 Thanks. I would post more of the detailed composites, but I'm working with 26.4K dialup right now Working with storms since 1978, I came up with 13 Millar A's, 25 Miller B's, and 11 SWF/Overrunning. Between 1978 and 2007, only storms with accumulation >12" in a decently populated area were used. I weighted snowfall totals by population (only for NH), and came up with composites for strong and weak cases of each storm type. Here's what I got for the top 10 storms 2001-03-06 1993-03-14 1978-02-07 2003-12-08 2001-02-05 2003-02-18 1982-04-07 2003-01-04 1987-01-03 1984-03-14 That is some good research, Backs up what i have said about Miller A's up here, We do better with the B's and the SWFE events as well............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice1972 Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Short of "get the Kocin books" it would be sweet if someone could discuss briefly what is driving the transfer of energy for Miller B's.....peace out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Early blooming miller b's FTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2Otown_WX Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Dryslot. As the primary system dies off and the secondary takes over at the coast there is that area in between that gets the royal screw job. Essentially the farther north and east you are in NE, the better chance you have at significant snow in a Miller B. At least that's my understanding. I think down here in SW NE we tend to do better in El Nino winters with Miller A's...of course last year was an exception to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tropopause_Fold Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Thanks. I would post more of the detailed composites, but I'm working with 26.4K dialup right now Working with storms since 1978, I came up with 13 Millar A's, 25 Miller B's, and 11 SWF/Overrunning. Between 1978 and 2007, only storms with accumulation >12" in a decently populated area were used. I weighted snowfall totals by population (only for NH), and came up with composites for strong and weak cases of each storm type. Here's what I got for the top 10 storms 2001-03-06 1993-03-14 1978-02-07 2003-12-08 2001-02-05 2003-02-18 1982-04-07 2003-01-04 1987-01-03 1984-03-14 didn't know that was even possible. LOL. either way, nice work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OKpowdah Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Short of "get the Kocin books" it would be sweet if someone could discuss briefly what is driving the transfer of energy for Miller B's.....peace out It's actually not a transfer of energy. That terminology is incorrectly used many times. What happens is that the primary low is becoming more vertically stacked, and thus losing upper level support (differential vorticity and temperature advections). The best upper level dynamics are now out ahead of the primary low, and as it reaches the coast where a natural baroclinic zone is present between the warm ocean and cold land, a secondary low develops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OKpowdah Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 didn't know that was even possible. LOL. either way, nice work! You have no idea ... lol I was so excited for college, just for the internet speed haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryslot Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Essentially the farther north and east you are in NE, the better chance you have at significant snow in a Miller B. At least that's my understanding. I think down here in SW NE we tend to do better in El Nino winters with Miller A's...of course last year was an exception to that. You are right, Miller B's and SWFE events plus we cash in on the late bloomers..........FTW here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambone Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Thanks guys, great informational thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 Thanks. I would post more of the detailed composites, but I'm working with 26.4K dialup right now Working with storms since 1978, I came up with 13 Millar A's, 25 Miller B's, and 11 SWF/Overrunning. Between 1978 and 2007, only storms with accumulation >12" in a decently populated area were used. I weighted snowfall totals by population (only for NH), and came up with composites for strong and weak cases of each storm type. Here's what I got for the top 10 storms 2001-03-06 1993-03-14 1978-02-07 2003-12-08 2001-02-05 2003-02-18 1982-04-07 2003-01-04 1987-01-03 1984-03-14 Still dealing with dial-up at home; several attempts to install DSL have failed (though one worked for a bit until Fairpoint took full control in 2/2009, when it just quit working.) Nice list and thanks for the work. My at-a-glance attempt for a Maine list would lose 2/1978, as depths rapidly decreased north of BGR, and Aroostook was mostly 2-4". 3/6/2001 also drops off despite 30" in western York Cty, due to the very sharp cutoff north of Route 2. 3/14/1984 is probably tops, with the entire state 15-30". 12/6-7/2003 and 4/7-8/1982 are probably 2,3 (or 3,2), again due to full N-S and E-W coverage. 3/14-15/1993 might be 4th - no 2' but everyone 10"+ and most 14-18". After that? 2/5-6/2001, 12/15/2003, 2/10-12/2005, maybe V-Day 2007. And going back further, 2/24-27/1969 is perhaps the all-time champ, even though it also missed Aroostook. However, it's the top event in BGR and LEW, misses by just 0.2" in PWM, and produced jaw-dropping totals in Western Maine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoSki14 Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 SWF systems are the ones that are the worst even for NE sometimes because if the cold high is not strong enough, too much warm air gets involved and these types of storms generally bring a mixed bag of precipitation. There not all bad if things line up correctly, the winter of 93-94 featured a lot of SWF systems that ended up being good snow producers. I think the 03 Feb storm would also be considered an overrunning type of storm because of the vast amount of precipitation that came with it along with very cold air and a weak low. Miller A's generally end up being the most fun for everyone and the systems end up the strongest with plenty of moisture. Miller B's are generally horrible for those south of 40N with a few notable exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryslot Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 SWF systems are the ones that are the worst even for NE sometimes because if the cold high is not strong enough, too much warm air gets involved and these types of storms generally bring a mixed bag of precipitation. There not all bad if things line up correctly, the winter of 93-94 featured a lot of SWF systems that ended up being good snow producers. I think the 03 Feb storm would also be considered an overrunning type of storm because of the vast amount of precipitation that came with it along with very cold air and a weak low. Miller A's generally end up being the most fun for everyone and the systems end up the strongest with plenty of moisture. Miller B's are generally horrible for those south of 40N with a few notable exceptions. We do quite well with SWFE, 2007-2008 we had numerous and it was one of our snowiest winters on record here........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OKpowdah Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 We do quite well with SWFE, 2007-2008 we had numerous and it was one of our snowiest winters on record here........ agreed. The only reason there arent more in my analysis is that SWFE are often quicker hits not necessarily producing major to crippling accumulation. Many SWFE prior to 2007 were probably off my radar ... so to speak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OKpowdah Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 Still dealing with dial-up at home; several attempts to install DSL have failed (though one worked for a bit until Fairpoint took full control in 2/2009, when it just quit working.) Nice list and thanks for the work. My at-a-glance attempt for a Maine list would lose 2/1978, as depths rapidly decreased north of BGR, and Aroostook was mostly 2-4". 3/6/2001 also drops off despite 30" in western York Cty, due to the very sharp cutoff north of Route 2. 3/14/1984 is probably tops, with the entire state 15-30". 12/6-7/2003 and 4/7-8/1982 are probably 2,3 (or 3,2), again due to full N-S and E-W coverage. 3/14-15/1993 might be 4th - no 2' but everyone 10"+ and most 14-18". After that? 2/5-6/2001, 12/15/2003, 2/10-12/2005, maybe V-Day 2007. And going back further, 2/24-27/1969 is perhaps the all-time champ, even though it also missed Aroostook. However, it's the top event in BGR and LEW, misses by just 0.2" in PWM, and produced jaw-dropping totals in Western Maine. Dial-up is a royal pain in the a$$. I dealt with it for 7 years before going to college. I learned to multitask a lot while stuff was loading lol 1969 would certainly take the cake for you guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryslot Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 agreed. The only reason there arent more in my analysis is that SWFE are often quicker hits not necessarily producing major to crippling accumulation. Many SWFE prior to 2007 were probably off my radar ... so to speak Your chart was a pretty good indicator for the region up here, Miller B's and and SWFE work out well, The SWFE events won't produce major snows a lot of times but they do drop alot in the 6" range........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 We do quite well with SWFE, 2007-2008 we had numerous and it was one of our snowiest winters on record here........ The winter of Sunday/Wednesday snowstorms. Biggest event was 12.5" (dry powder in flat calm) but I recorded 21 events of 3" or greater. The following winter was just the opposite, only 8 storms of 3"+ (even the awful 2009-10 had 9) but two Miller B blockbusters, 12/21-22 and 2/22-23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OKpowdah Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Now that I'm back at college with high speed internet, here's some composite maps for "strong" and "weak" cases of each storm type. The intensity is determined from the population weighted snowfall totals, and then using an arbitrary critical level to approximately evenly split the set Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Were each of these actual events? Just curious. Also, how does a SWF event look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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