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Feb. 23-25th Winter Storm Part 2


Chicago Storm

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I don't think dry air will be too much of a problem with this. There's no high pressure over Ontario or Quebec that would supply cold, dry air. Plus, there's a lot of low cloudiness around right now which isn't really indicative of dry air.

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Is the heaviest band still being predicted across the peoria-bloomington corridor? Or is it tracking further south? We are about 60 miles south (Decatur area) and wondered what you think we should expect for total snowfall with this storm?

AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE LINCOLN IL

1044 AM CST THU FEB 24 2011

DISCUSSION

ISSUED 1044 AM CST THU FEB 24 2011

UPDATED THE FORECAST TO MAKE MINOR ADJUSTMENTS TO TEMPERATURES IN

PARTS OF CENTRAL IL...OTHERWISE THE FORECAST LOOKS TO BE ON TARGET

FOR PRECIPITATION TRENDS.

LOW PRESSURE IN SOUTH CENTRAL OKLAHOMA WILL CONTINUE TO

INTENSIFY...REACHING THE OZARKS BY EARLY THIS EVENING AND EXTREME

WESTERN KY BY MIDNIGHT. PRECIPITATION...MAINLY IN THE FORM OF RAIN

OR A RAIN-SNOW MIX HAS BROKEN OUT ACROSS MUCH OF MISSOURI. THIS IS

EXPECTED TO MOVE INTO WEST CENTRAL IL LATE THIS AFTERNOON AND

RAPIDLY EXPAND ACROSS THE AREA THIS EVENING.

ANY OF THE MODEL SOLUTIONS ARE IN AGREEMENT THAT THERE WILL BE

PLENTY OF MOISTURE AVAILABLE FOR THIS STORM TO PRODUCE HEAVY RAIN

IN SOUTHEAST IL LATE THIS EVENING AND OVERNIGHT...WITH RAIN

RAPIDLY CHANGING TO SNOW IN WEST CENTRAL AND CENTRAL IL THIS

EVENING. IMPRESSIVE UPPER LEVEL LIFT/DYNAMICS COULD RESULT IN

AREAS OF THUNDERSNOW...WHICH WE MAY BE ADDING TO THE FORECAST

LATER. THIS WOULD REALLY CAUSE SNOW AMOUNTS TO PILE UP IN THE

WARNING AREA TONIGHT. EVEN IF THIS DOES NOT OCCUR...THE AMPLE

MOISTURE WITH THIS SYSTEM SHOULD RESULT IN SNOW AMOUNTS GREATER

THAN 6 INCHES IN A 50 TO 75 MILE WIDE BAND OF CENTRAL IL.

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Is the heaviest band still being predicted across the peoria-bloomington corridor? Or is it tracking further south? We are about 60 miles south (Decatur area) and wondered what you think we should expect for total snowfall with this storm?

looks right on track.....but it's a NOWCAST situation so it may change hour by hour..best place for updates is here..

I am a little concerned that convection south of US in MO and S IL may rob some of the moisture up our way..I have seen that happen in the late season events

for you its a question of changeover timing 3-5 still looks good

also would you please add your location to your profile so we can remember where you are at when you post

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MESOSCALE DISCUSSION 0125

NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER NORMAN OK

1113 AM CST THU FEB 24 2011

AREAS AFFECTED...SERN NEB...NERN KS...NWRN MO...SWRN IA

CONCERNING...HEAVY SNOW

VALID 241713Z - 242315Z

MIXED PRECIPITATION TYPES FROM NEAR MANHATTAN KS TO WHITEMAN AFB IN

MO NWD TO THE KANSAS CITY METRO AREA WERE BEING REPORTED AS OF 17Z.

SFC ANALYSIS SHOWED STRONG ARCTIC HIGH PRESSURE JUST TO THE N OF THE

AREA AND SFC TEMPERATURES SHOULD EVENTUALLY FALL BELOW FREEZING

THROUGH WET BULB PROCESSES AND WEAK LOW LEVEL CAA. EXPECT PRECIP

TYPE TO CHANGE TO ALL SNOW BY AROUND 19-20Z.

17Z SFC ANALYSIS INDICATED A WARM FRONT FROM ERN OK ACROSS CNTRL AR.

ISENTROPIC ASCENT OVER THE FRONT WILL WRAP ABUNDANT MOISTURE AROUND

MID LEVEL LOW /LOCATED OVER SRN KS/NRN OK AT 18Z PER 12Z NAM

FORECAST/ INTO MCD AREA. FORCING FOR ASCENT WILL BE ENHANCED BY

INCREASING DEEP LAYER FLOW /850 MB WINDS 40 KT...50KT AT 500MB/ AND

A VORTICITY MAX LIFTING NEWD FROM SERN KS INTO NWRN MO THROUGH 21Z.

12Z NAM FORECASTS ALSO INDICATE MODEST POTENTIAL FOR SLANTWISE

CONVECTION AND BANDED PRECIPITATION.

MIXED PRECIPITATION TYPES WILL LIKELY CONTINUE OVER SRN PORTIONS OF

THE MCD AREA FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF HOURS. THEREAFTER...ALL SNOW IS

EXPECTED WITH RATES APPROACHING ONE INCH PER HOUR BY 20-21Z.

PRECIPITATION IS EXPECTED TO END BY EARLY EVENING AS LOW PRESSURE

SYSTEM ADVANCED EWD RATHER QUICKLY.

..STOPPKOTTE.. 02/24/2011

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AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION...UPDATED

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE QUAD CITIES IA IL

1101 AM CST THU FEB 24 2011

UPDATE

HAVE RAISED SNOWFALL AMOUNTS TO 6 TO 10 INCHES ALONG AND SOUTH OF

HIGHWAY 34 WHERE WE CURRENTLY HAVE THE WARNING. EXPECT 3 TO 6 INCHES

BETWEEN HIGHWAY 30 AND 34 AND 1 TO 3 INCHES TO THE NORTH OF HIGHWAY

30. LATEST MODEL DATA INDICATES A BIT MORE QPF AND CONCERNED WITH

CONVECTION (THUNDERSNOWS) THIS EVENING ADDING TO THE TOTALS. 12Z

COBB DATA SHOWS OVER 10 INCHES AT BRL. MIXING RATIOS OF 4 G/KG WOULD

SUGGEST 8 INCHES HOWEVER STRONG VERTICAL MOTION WOULD ADD TO THAT

TOTAL. FRONTOGENETICAL FORCING SUGGESTS NARROW BANDS OF HEAVY SNOW

SO EVEN IN AREAS WHERE THE ADVISORY HEADLINE IS LOCATED THERE MAY BE

ISOLATED HIGHER TOTALS. THE STRONGEST LIFT AND HEAVIEST SNOW SHOULD

OCCUR DURING THE EVENING HOURS INTO EARLY TONIGHT WITH THE SNOW

BEGINNING IN OUR SOUTHERN CWA LATER THIS AFTERNOON.

MSAS DATA SHOWS THE BEST 3 HR PRES FALLS ARE IN SOUTHERN MO

INDICATING THE SURFACE LOW IN OK TRACKING THROUGH THE OZARKS AND

THEN INTO PA ON FRIDAY. PLENTY OF MOISTURE AVAILABLE WITH SURFACE

DEWPOINTS IN THE 60S IN PORTIONS OF AR AND IN THE 40S IN SOUTHERN

MO. WITH THE 850 MB 0C LINE COLLAPSING THE PRECIPITATION SHOULD

BEGIN AS SNOW WITH THE MIXTURE SOUTH OF THE DVN CWA.

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Can watch saturation occur on the VAD wind profile out of DSM. Running BUFKIT to compare to model data.

VAD clearly shows a 6-7 kft saturation level, whereas NAM has this around 12kft atm and doesn't lower it to 7kft until 3 PM.

This bears watching for anybody on the northern fringe. It has likely either underdone the lift or overdone the dry air layer (or a combination of the both).

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Yes. But it would not be the actual tornadoes rather the convection robbing the moisture transport northward depriving the cold conveyor of it's ability to kick back snow into the deformation zone.:rolleyes:

As for Stebo his problem maybe the Cold Dry high pumping dry air into the storm on the north and east quadrant of the system.:rolleyes:

As for the warm temps at night not sure where that is coming from...but Thundersnow I am sure you are aware that strong WAA can cancel out the usual diurnal swings in temps. In fact I suspect that is Hoosiers concern if the system comes too far north.:rolleyes:

btw..actually did have several phone conversations with Mr. Skilling back in the '80's before cable,computers, and forums. He is as helpful as he seems. And no I did not have cocktails with him.:drunk:

Hey Thundersnow, yesterday you were giving me grief for pooh poohing and negativity. Yet in the last several post we have seen one respected Met. post(greatly appreciate the input btw) with regards to dry air and now Janet expressing concerns regarding moisture feed...what say you?

any final thoughts on this scenario :whistle:

personally: I see this pretty much panning out as progged with 2-4 through Chicago and somebody between IKK and LAF getting clocked.

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Hey Thundersnow, yesterday you were giving me grief for pooh poohing and negativity. Yet in the last several post we have seen one respected Met. post(greatly appreciate the input btw) with regards to dry air and now Janet expressing concerns regarding moisture feed...what say you?

any final thoughts on this scenario :whistle:

Yeah, that convection sure is robbing the moisture transport.

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Yeah, that convection sure is robbing the moisture transport.

did not say it was...far from it>

Referring to this post from Janet:

looks right on track.....but it's a NOWCAST situation so it may change hour by hour..best place for updates is here..

I am a little concerned that convection south of US in MO and S IL may rob some of the moisture up our way..I have seen that happen in the late season events

for you its a question of changeover timing 3-5 still looks good

also would you please add your location to your profile so we can remember where you are at when you post

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Hey Thundersnow, yesterday you were giving me grief for pooh poohing and negativity. Yet in the last several post we have seen one respected Met. post(greatly appreciate the input btw) with regards to dry air and now Janet expressing concerns regarding moisture feed...what say you?

any final thoughts on this scenario :whistle:

personally: I see this pretty much panning out as progged with 2-4 through Chicago and somebody between IKK and LAF getting clocked.

you must of missed him say this, I'm done fighting with you so give it a rest already and shut up.

VAD clearly shows a 6-7 kft saturation level, whereas NAM has this around 12kft atm and doesn't lower it to 7kft until 3 PM.

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did not say it was...far from it>

Referring to this post from Janet:

looks right on track.....but it's a NOWCAST situation so it may change hour by hour..best place for updates is here..

I am a little concerned that convection south of US in MO and S IL may rob some of the moisture up our way..I have seen that happen in the late season events

for you its a question of changeover timing 3-5 still looks good

also would you please add your location to your profile so we can remember where you are at when you post

You said it too...you bolded it in your post like 5 minutes ago.

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you must of missed him say this, I'm done fighting with you so give it a rest already and shut up.

VAD clearly shows a 6-7 kft saturation level, whereas NAM has this around 12kft atm and doesn't lower it to 7kft until 3 PM.

I do not feel this is a proper way to address an individual in any debate. Classless. If you go on in this field which I suspect you hope is meteorology you had better develop a thicker skin . I have done nothing but point out and support my point of view...always. Nothing referenced as personal. In fact, my last post with regards to this storm and your mocking of me was to point out the fact the very ideas I pinpointed(and they were tongue and cheek bullet points) were now being raised as concerns with regard to this storm by some other posters. Your response was unnecessary and lacked complete class. As a sidenote...can you please highlight concerns you have with respect to this storm and the chance of it not maximizing its potential in north east Illinois. I will await your response.

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