das Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 When the government shuts down does the NWS shut down too, or does it keep working due to being "essential" to day to day protection of life and property? Each Department and Agency has a list of essential personnel and processes. They are a subset of the overall organizational population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil882 Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Each Department and Agency has a list of essential personnel and processes. They are a subset of the overall organizational population. So essentially there will be a skeletal crew working, while all non-essential employees will be laid off (temporarily or otherwise?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 So essentially there will be a skeletal crew working, while all non-essential employees will be laid off (temporarily or otherwise?) Operational personnel (i.e., shift workers) are generally considered essential... otherwise, we wouldn't have to work shifts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Operational personnel (i.e., shift workers) are generally considered essential... otherwise, we wouldn't have to work shifts Unfortunately, I think WFO management fall into that category too. It'll probably be business as usual for the NWS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillB Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Unfortunately, I think WFO management fall into that category too. It'll probably be business as usual for the NWS. During the last shutdown, all administrative people at my WFO were affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 During the last shutdown, all administrative people at my WFO were affected. Management didn't work? Whoa...bring on the furlough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Here's one way some NWS employees will definitely get screwed: Leave of any type is *not* allowed during a shutdown. It *must* be cancelled. Since schedules are generally set in advance, this essentially means that anyone who's vacationing next week is furloughed if the gov is shutdown... and apparently they *have* to get a furlough slip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainshadow Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Here's one way some NWS employees will definitely get screwed: Leave of any type is *not* allowed during a shutdown. It *must* be cancelled. Since schedules are generally set in advance, this essentially means that anyone who's vacationing next week is furloughed if the gov is shutdown... and apparently they *have* to get a furlough slip. Its so nice being pawns in a game of chicken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Management didn't work? Whoa...bring on the furlough! That's what I was hoping; impromptu vacation. SES was deemed essential (!) so I'm screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 It's funny how the federal government can find money for all kinds of programs designed to wipe the asses of everyone in the world, but when it comes to a legitimate government function "there's just no money in the budget". Reminds me of my former employer. "There's no money in the budget for computers and desks! But make sure your software's done for the code freeze guys!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 So essentially there will be a skeletal crew working, while all non-essential employees will be laid off (temporarily or otherwise?) Wait... does this mean Tony's going to have to take his pizza boxes to the trash bin himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Wait... does this mean Tony's going to have to take his pizza boxes to the trash bin himself? Good question... we might be emptying trash cans ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormguy80 Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 According to a lot of conservatives (I'm not one of them), that's the way it should be..big strong military and then cut everything else. It's funny how the federal government can find money for all kinds of programs designed to wipe the asses of everyone in the world, but when it comes to a legitimate government function "there's just no money in the budget". Reminds me of my former employer. "There's no money in the budget for computers and desks! But make sure your software's done for the code freeze guys!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainshadow Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Wait... does this mean Tony's going to have to take his pizza boxes to the trash bin himself? Tony might have to make his own pizza. I'm not sure about the hit we're going to be taking once a compromise gets reached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGorse Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Budget agreement reached, therefore no government shutdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baroclinic_instability Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Tony might have to make his own pizza. I'm not sure about the hit we're going to be taking once a compromise gets reached. Budget agreement reached, therefore no government shutdown. Well that is the big question now. Sure--shutdown averted--but how much of the approved eventual cuts are directed towards NOAA? Personally I don't know how they come to the final values--so it is hard to say. Even with Obama's budget proposal--it would have been lean for NOAA and the NWS for the next year as a number of proposed upgrades, etc. would not even have been possible then. The house proposal was something like 60 billion in cuts with 453 million to NOAA. They decided on 38-39 billion--but I don't think we can just assume all the cuts are equal. For now, at worst, it would be 66% of 453 million--hopefully the Dems remained true to their word--but some cuts are likely here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainshadow Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Well that is the big question now. Sure--shutdown averted--but how much of the approved eventual cuts are directed towards NOAA? Personally I don't know how they come to the final values--so it is hard to say. Even with Obama's budget proposal--it would have been lean for NOAA and the NWS for the next year as a number of proposed upgrades, etc. would not even have been possible then. The house proposal was something like 60 billion in cuts with 453 million to NOAA. They decided on 38-39 billion--but I don't think we can just assume all the cuts are equal. For now, at worst, it would be 66% of 453 million--hopefully the Dems remained true to their word--but some cuts are likely here. Yeah I don't know how much of that percentage hit can be taken without some collateral damage. I was told Dual Polar would (or maybe should) not be affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 It's scary to see the state of our country but what's scarier is that there doesn't seem to be any hope on the horizon. The country as a whole is just too divided and I don't see any opportunity for changing that. Everything is about one political party (or ideology) securing the upper hand; but even with the upper hand, if the nation remains divided, nothing good can truly be accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Although I am happy a shutdown was averted, my concern is that the cuts will be allocated with little consideration about program/function value-added. IMO, the cuts should come from low value-added programs/functions, as well as those that are driving the deficits, not high value-added ones such as the NWS that also have no meaningful deficit impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Although I am happy a shutdown was averted, my concern is that the cuts will be allocated with little consideration about program/function value-added. IMO, the cuts should come from low value-added programs/functions, as well as those that are driving the deficits, not high value-added ones such as the NWS that also have no meaningful deficit impact. you're my write in for 2012 Don lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 It's scary to see the state of our country but what's scarier is that there doesn't seem to be any hope on the horizon. The country as a whole is just too divided and I don't see any opportunity for changing that. Everything is about one political party (or ideology) securing the upper hand; but even with the upper hand, if the nation remains divided, nothing good can truly be accomplished. Much of our political system is built around the concept "winner takes all". Only fundamental changes in how our government is run would be able to truly change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillB Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Of course, this is just the overture. $38 billion is just chump change compared with what needs to be accomplished. The deficit, the rate we're digging the hole deeper, is over $1 trillion; the debt (the hole) is over $14 trillion. The true yelling and screaming by the tone-deaf citizens out on both wings has yet to begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris87 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 So you would agree that we should have not extended the Bush tax cuts, which if cancelled and return to Reagan era levels, would have eliminated 150 billion over the next 6 months? Silly Republicans don't like reality. In America it's pick your poison, Republicans run up deficits giving money to rich people, Democrats run up deficits giving money to poor people. Of course, this is just the overture. $38 billion is just chump change compared with what needs to be accomplished. The deficit, the rate we're digging the hole deeper, is over $1 trillion; the debt (the hole) is over $14 trillion. The true yelling and screaming by the tone-deaf citizens out on both wings has yet to begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillB Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 So you would agree that we should have not extended the Bush tax cuts, which if cancelled and return to Reagan era levels, would have eliminated 150 billion over the next 6 months? Silly Republicans don't like reality. In America it's pick your poison, Republicans run up deficits giving money to rich people, Democrats run up deficits giving money to poor people. "Silly" right-wingers don't like reality. "Silly" left-wingers don't like reality. I agree with Simpson-Bowles. The solution to this will not solely come from "soak the rich" or from "waste, fraud, abuse". It will come from a combination of tough choices that people won't like. But adults usually realize that necessary actions are often like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris87 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 well said, now if we only lived in a nation of adults "Silly" right-wingers don't like reality. "Silly" left-wingers don't like reality. I agree with Simpson-Bowles. The solution to this will not solely come from "soak the rich" or from "waste, fraud, abuse". It will come from a combination of tough choices that people won't like. But adults usually realize that necessary actions are often like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 well said, now if we only lived in a nation of adults As George Carlin once said while talking about politicians, "This is the best we can do, folks. Garbage in, garbage out." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeznado Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The general final cuts are in- $142 million for NOAA as a whole, not sure how that will affect the NWS..... NOAA - Operations, Research, and Facilities -$119 NOAA - Procurement, Acquisition and Construction -$23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The general final cuts are in- $142 million for NOAA as a whole, not sure how that will affect the NWS..... NOAA - Operations, Research, and Facilities -$119 NOAA - Procurement, Acquisition and Construction -$23 The original Republican request was -$454.3 for Operations/Research/Facilities, so only 26% of their proposed cuts will be enacted. Assuming that there isn't a mass uprising by the Tea Party as some reports suggest is beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baroclinic_instability Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The original Republican request was -$454.3 for Operations/Research/Facilities, so only 26% of their proposed cuts will be enacted. Assuming that there isn't a mass uprising by the Tea Party as some reports suggest is beginning. Still unpleasant. I have a feeling hiring freezes will be coming quickly, cutting of programs, outreach stuff may be cut, traveling, etc. That is still a lot of cash (yeah it is NOAA overall--but the NWS will have to absorb some of it as well of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainshadow Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Still unpleasant. I have a feeling hiring freezes will be coming quickly, cutting of programs, outreach stuff may be cut, traveling, etc. That is still a lot of cash (yeah it is NOAA overall--but the NWS will have to absorb some of it as well of course). Just IMO I could see that. Bigger question is FY2012 and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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