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Feb 20-21 Upstate NY / North Country Winter Storm


CNYWxGuy

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Apparently the 0z NAM was good enough for Buffalo...

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BUFFALO NY

955 PM EST SAT FEB 19 2011

WYOMING-LIVINGSTON-ONTARIO-CHAUTAUQUA-CATTARAUGUS-ALLEGANY-SOUTHERN ERIE-

INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...WARSAW...GENESEO...CANANDAIGUA...JAMESTOWN...OLEAN...WELLSVILLE...ORCHARD PARK...SPRINGVILLE

...WINTER STORM WATCH IN EFFECT FROM SUNDAY EVENING THROUGH MONDAY MORNING...

* LOCATIONS...SOUTHERN ERIE...WYOMING...LIVINGSTON...ONTARIO...CHAUTAUQUA...CATTARAUGUS AND ALLEGANY COUNTIES.

* TIMING...SUNDAY NIGHT INTO MONDAY MORNING.

* HAZARDS...MODERATE TO HEAVY SNOW. CHANCE FOR SOME SLEET NEAR THE PENNSYLVANIA BORDER.

* ACCUMULATIONS...6 INCHES OR MORE OF SNOW POSSIBLE.

* WINDS...EAST TO SOUTHEAST AT 10 TO 20 MPH.

* VISIBILITIES...UNDER A HALF MILE DURING HEAVIER SNOWFALL.

* TEMPERATURES...GENERALLY IN THE MID TO UPPER 20S.

* IMPACTS...VERY DIFFICULT DRIVING CONDITIONS.

* FORECASTER CONFIDENCE...MEDIUM TO HIGH.

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Newly issued BGM HWO...

HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BINGHAMTON NY

1037 PM EST SAT FEB 19 2011

STEUBEN-CHEMUNG-TIOGA-BROOME-DELAWARE-SULLIVAN-

THIS HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK IS FOR CENTRAL NEW YORK...SOUTHEASTERN NEW YORK AND NORTHEAST PENNSYLVANIA.

...SIGNIFICANT SNOWFALL POSSIBLE SUNDAY NIGHT AND MONDAY...

ANOTHER WINTER STORM WILL IMPACT SOUTH CENTRAL NEW YORK AND THE NORTHERN TIER OF EASTERN PENNSYLVANIA FROM LATE SUNDAY TO MONDAY MORNING. THE POTENTIAL EXISTS FOR 3 TO 6 INCHES OF SNOW. THERE IS ALSO A CHANCE FOR SLEET. IF ENOUGH SLEET FALLS...SNOWFALL AMOUNTS WILL BE MUCH LESS. THERE IS STILL UNCERTAINTY AS TO THE PRECIPITATION TYPE.

NORTHERN ONEIDA-YATES-SENECA-SOUTHERN CAYUGA-ONONDAGA-SCHUYLER- TOMPKINS-MADISON-SOUTHERN ONEIDA-CORTLAND-CHENANGO-OTSEGO-

DAYS TWO THROUGH SEVEN...SUNDAY THROUGH FRIDAY.

...SIGNIFICANT SNOWFALL POSSIBLE SUNDAY NIGHT AND MONDAY...

ANOTHER WINTER STORM WILL IMPACT SOUTH CENTRAL NEW YORK AND THE NORTHERN TIER OF EASTERN PENNSYLVANIA FROM LATE SUNDAY TO MONDAY MORNING. THE POTENTIAL EXISTS FOR 4 TO 8 INCHES OF SNOW. THERE IS STILL UNCERTAINTY AS TO HOW MUCH SNOW FALLS.

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...WINTER WEATHER ADVISORY IN EFFECT FROM MIDNIGHT TONIGHT TO

3 PM EST MONDAY...

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN ALBANY HAS ISSUED A WINTER

WEATHER ADVISORY FOR MODERATE SNOW...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM

MIDNIGHT TONIGHT TO 3 PM EST MONDAY.

* LOCATIONS: GREATER CAPITAL DISTRICT...MOHAWK VALLEY...SCHOHARIE

VALLEY...SARATOGA REGION...SOUTHERN GREEN MOUNTAINS OF

VERMONT...EASTERN CATSKILLS...MID HUDSON VALLEY...TACONICS...

BERKSHIRES AND LITCHFIELD HILLS.

* HAZARDS: SNOW OF VARYING INTENSITY.

* ACCUMULATIONS: 3 TO 6 INCHES...EXCEPT 4 TO 8 INCHES POSSIBLE

ACROSS THE EASTERN CATSKILLS...SCHOHARIE COUNTY...AND THE

SOUTHWEST MOHAWK VALLEY.

...SNOWFALL

RATES WILL LIKELY NOT BE EXTREME AND SNOW-WATER RATIOS SHOULD BE

CLOSE TO CLIMATOLOGY AND HAVE USED MAINLY 13:1 OR 12:1 RATIOS FOR

THE EVENT. GUIDANCE SUGGESTING THERE WILL NOT BE ENOUGH QPF TO

WARRANT ADVISORIES FOR THE NORTHERN STRIPE OF ZONES...BUT A WINTER

WEATHER ADVISORY WILL BE ISSUED SOUTH OF THERE WITH GENERALLY 3-6"

AND POSSIBLE HIGHER 4-8" AMOUNTS FOR THE EASTERN CATSKILLS AND

SCHOHARIE COUNTY...AS WELL AS SOUTHERN HERKIMER.

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12z NAM looked like it should be mostly/all snow here. 850-700mb temps are close, but cold enough. Should it stay snow, it would be 6-9" in the Southern Tier and a bit less in Buffalo. Then the 2nd storm comes through and just brushes the Southern Tier with 3-4" and less than an inch for Buffalo. If we can get it to move north, though, there's 0.5-0.75"+ amounts sitting not far to the south.

Backup RUC looks fantastic:

post-312-0-80610500-1298214103.png

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well after looking at the 12z suite we may be getting screwed from the thruway north. It figures the one time we need a north trend or no trend at all, it goes south. at least its nothing too impressive.

Agree along and north of an approx I-90-Brattleboro line 1-3 inches; south the line 3-5 maybe a lollipop or two of 6 inches across the Catskills. Still think the system will end sooner than model as most PIVA/WAA SWFE type systems do.

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the PV is in a horrendous position, and we are seeing the result for those in the N and E.

but it should be a nice event for the SW parts of the region, and they defintely deserve it. :snowman:

the euro was just marvelous with this system. from a week out it showed the PV dominating the pattern as it dove S and E squishing the storm S and E even though it was well N into the upper plains initially.... it looked ODD.....but it nailed it from a week out (save for 1 hiccup run).....well done.

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12z NAM looked like it should be mostly/all snow here. 850-700mb temps are close, but cold enough. Should it stay snow, it would be 6-9" in the Southern Tier and a bit less in Buffalo. Then the 2nd storm comes through and just brushes the Southern Tier with 3-4" and less than an inch for Buffalo. If we can get it to move north, though, there's 0.5-0.75"+ amounts sitting not far to the south.

Just for kicks and giggles, using the various snow ratios from the 12z GFS BUFKIT for KJHW by Monday afternoon:

Max temp: 17.4"

Zone Omega: 23.9"

Surface temp: 17.6"

All on 1.17" of precip and comfortably below zero at all levels. It's rough on Buffalo. All of them are around 6" on 0.35" of QPF.

New 12z ECM hammers the Western S Tier, specifically along / south of I-86. QPF in excess of .80 and all-snow. BUF is going to need to consider a warning-upgrade out there.

Edit: Just looked at the 12z NAM and GFS. Quite amazing that all 3 operational models have zero'd in on the exact same location for warning-level snows (Meso-banding pot'l?). I should think a warning-upgrade would be in store this afternoon for Chaut-Catt counties, maybe Srn Erie and Allegany as well.

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New 12z ECM hammers the Western S Tier, specifically along / south of I-86. QPF in excess of .80 and all-snow. BUF might need to consider a warning-upgrade out there.

Yeah its been consistently doing that the last several runs, looks like a nice event out there maybe the biggest synoptic snow of the year?

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New 12z ECM hammers the Western S Tier, specifically along / south of I-86. QPF in excess of .80 and all-snow. BUF is going to need to consider a warning-upgrade out there.

Edit: Just looked at the 12z NAM and GFS. Quite amazing that all 3 operational models have zero'd in on the exact same location for warning-level snows (Meso-banding pot'l?). I should think a warning-upgrade would be in store this afternoon for Chaut-Catt counties, maybe Srn Erie and Allegany as well.

CTP's gone with 7-11" tonight just to my south in Warren County, so they should be putting up warnings in the next hour.

This could be the first time in over 2 years that we wake up to over 5" of snow, too (last time was January 9, 2009). It's almost amazing the consistency of daytime storms that we've had over the past 4 winters, so it will be nice to finally have one overnight. Most models seem to have the bulk of the snow over by 7 or 8am.

13" is the number to beat from January 28, 2009 (the last major synoptic snow).

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If anyone is interested, here is a replica of the 12z Euro output for the most active hours of 12-24 (7PM Sunday - 7AM Monday). Pretty sure we aren't allowed to post the actual images, so I quickly threw together a hand-drawn replica of the data.

The 850 0°C and Surface 32°F lines remain south of the region for the duration, so I only drew in the Critical thicknesses and QPF lines starting at .10". Hour 30 just has some very light precip (<.10) from the southern shores of LO to Washington Cnty on the VT border and points south...

post-538-0-54291800-1298228681.png

post-538-0-34943600-1298228719.png

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Anyone think this one will go further north like past storms with this track? Check this out...

THE NAM ANALYSIS IS ABOUT 3 MB WEAKER THAN OBSERVED WITH THE SFC

LOW INITIALLY OVER THE CNTRL PLAINS. THE PMSL ANALYSIS ALSO

PLACES THE SFC LOW ABOUT 60-80 MI FARTHER E/ESE THAN OBSERVED BUT

THE NAM BNDRY LAYER WINDS COMPARE BETTER TO SFC DATA. THE GFS

PMSL ANALYSIS IS ONLY SLIGHTLY BETTER THAN THE NAM IN DEPTH BUT

CONSIDERABLY BETTER IN POSN. OTHER 12Z MODELS INCLUDING THE

ECMWF... AND SOME RUC RUNS... ALSO APPEAR TO BE WEAKER THAN

SUGGESTED BY SFC DATA. EARLY IN THE FCST MOST MDLS STILL APPEAR

TO BE A LITTLE WEAK WITH THE PLAINS SFC LOW BASED ON SFC DATA THRU

18Z. THUS EARLY PREFERENCES THRU SUN WOULD BE FOR A SOLN SLIGHTLY

DEEPER THAN MOST 12Z MDLS... MOST CLOSELY APPROXIMATED BY THE

UKMET/09Z SREF MEAN.

Looks like the model are under-forecasting the strength a bit again...

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Anyone think this one will go further north like past storms with this track? Check this out...

Looks like the model are under-forecasting the strength a bit again...

Just no such thing as a cut-and-dry forecast when it comes to these winter storms it seems...

If the 0z NAM is correct, a lot of the current forecasts / headlines are in some serious trouble...

post-538-0-78819600-1298253738.gif

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AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BINGHAMTON NY

929 PM EST SUN FEB 20 2011

NEAR TERM /THROUGH MONDAY/...

-- Changed Discussion --UPDATED AT 9 PM... REGIONAL RADAR LOOPS/SFC OBS SHOW THE LEADING EDGE OF PCPN APPROACHING OUR WRN ZONES AS OF THIS WRITING...ABOUT ON SCHEDULE. SNOW SHOULD OVERSPREAD THE FCST AREA...FROM W TO E...THROUGH 05Z.

18Z GFS/NAM RUNS ARE VERY MUCH IN SYNC WITH THE 12Z RUNS...SO LITTLE CHANGE IN THE FORECAST PHILOSOPHY FROM EARLIER (REFER TO PREVIOUS DISCUSSION BELOW). SOME INTERESTING THINGS TO NOTE UPSTREAM EARLY THIS EVENING...FIRSTLY...THE CHARACTER OF THE RADAR ECHOES OVER LWR MI/LK MI (QUITE CELLULAR/CONVECTIVE LOOKING)...AND ALSO THE REPORTS OF THUNDER-SNOW NEAR DETROIT. THE 00Z DETROIT SOUNDING SHOWED WHAT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE AN ABSOLUTE MOIST UNSTABLE LAYER (MAUL) FROM 600-500 MB. AS THIS ENVIRONMENT TRANSLATES EWD LATER TONIGHT...THE PROSPECTS FOR SOME LOCALIZED +SN BANDS WITHIN THE LARGER PCPN SHIELD WOULD SEEM LIKE A DISTINCT POSSIBILITY.

MODEL CROSS-SXNS FROM 06-12Z ACROSS NE PA/CNTRL NY SHOW A NICE BURST OF NEG EPV...JUST PRIOR TO THE BEST FGEN FORCING/SLOPED ASCENT (A NICE RECIPE FOR BANDED HEAVY SNOWFALL). IT WOULD APPEAR THE COMBINATION OF THIS GOOD FRONTAL-SCALE FORCING/STG ISEN LIFT...IS PEGGED TO CROSS THE TWIN TIERS FROM ABOUT 08-12Z...PERHAPS SLIGHTLY DROPPING ESEWD INTO THE WYO/LACK VALLEYS. THE LATEST HRRR SIMULATED REFLECTIVITY IMAGES DURING THIS TIME FRAME ALSO SEEM TO SUPPORT SUCH A SCENARIO.

BOTTOM LINE...OUR WARNINGS FROM KELM ESEWD INTO THE NRN TIER OF PA LOOK JUST FINE. THE MAIN LIMITING FACTOR WOULD APPEAR TO BE SPEED OF MOVEMENT OF THIS SYSTEM...WITH THE HRRR ALSO SHOWING A RAPID EXIT OF PCPN FROM 12-15Z. HOWEVER...THE LIKELIHOOD OF INTENSE SNOWFALL RATES PRIOR TO THIS...MAY OVERCOME RELATIVELY SHORT DURATIONS (3-6 HR).

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