Who gets more snow?

[Diego]

Its natural for most people on a board dominated by snow lovers to "defend" their local climo to a position of as much snow as possible. I am prone to it as well.

However, barring any major elevation swings (>500 feet), obvious proximity to water, and no orographic effects to the east (potential downslope), latitude almost always ends up winning I've found.

Consistent therewith, Lyndhurst averaging more snowfall than Holmdel is a slam dunk, which in all likelihood should be at least 5" more of snowfall per year than at Holmdel, if not more, despite limited portions of Holmdel having elevations as high as 150 to 200.' Holmdel's location is only in central, and not even northern Monmouth County, and is only about 8 miles ne of Freehold. The amount of ocean or bay (Raritan Bay) enhancement of snowfalls, which sometimes does occur, is still nevertheless de minimus when looking at the long term averages, relative to the greater and much more reliable increases in snowfall at Lyndhurst due not only to it's higher latitude (which is about the same as Central Park), but also as a result of the colder origins of low level air reaching it from the northeast during winter precipitation events, originating from more inland locales as a result of its location being about 10 miles west of the Hudson River and also because of its higher latitude.

[uncle W]

who would have thought Ocean county would get more snow than NYC last year...It's happened a few times...The storm track is critical for snow amounts but there are places that don't do as well due to geography...I live in one...I remember a storm on February 26th 1974 when NYC got 2" while Freehold got 12"...

[rgwp96]

Its natural for most people on a board dominated by snow lovers to "defend" their local climo to a position of as much snow as possible. I am prone to it as well.

However, barring any major elevation swings (>500 feet), obvious proximity to water, and no orographic effects to the east (potential downslope), latitude almost always ends up winning I've found.

i cant quote wiliams 83 year old comment since its gone but i certainly was on his side on this

[Isotherm]

[/b]Consistent therewith, Lyndhurst averaging more snowfall than Holmdel is a slam dunk, which in all likelihood should be at least 5" more of snowfall per year than at Holmdel, if not more, despite limited portions of Holmdel having elevations as high as 150 to 200.' Holmdel's location is only in central, and not even northern Monmouth County, and is only about 8 miles ne of Freehold. The amount of ocean or bay (Raritan Bay) enhancement of snowfalls, which sometimes does occur, is still nevertheless de minimus when looking at the long term averages, relative to the greater and much more reliable increases in snowfall at Lyndhurst due not only to it's higher latitude (which is about the same as Central Park), but also as a result of the colder origins of low level air reaching it from the northeast during winter precipitation events, originating from more inland locales as a result its location being about 10 miles west of the Hudson River and also because of its higher latitude.

FYI, the highest point in Holmdel is nearly 400', at Crawford Hill (380ft to be exact). Holmdel is a fairly big town, with the NW corner only a few miles from Middlesex county, the NE corner only 10 minutes from Sandy Hook Bay, etc. Also, I think the UHI plays a role as well. Land cover in Holmdel is polar opposite from Lyndhurst, the latter is much more densely populated and paved.

I'm willing to concede that Lyndhurst could have a couple inches on this area, maybe 28" here versus 30" there. But I don't think it's a big difference. Once you get NW of Lyndhurst by 10-15 miles you can probably tack on a few more inches.

http://www.westjerseyhistory.org/maps/countymaps/MonmouthCounty_1889.jpg

[gkrangers]

I'd take Holmdel over ugly Lyndhurst (IMO) any day.

If I were raising a family and had the money I would too. However, Lyndhurst is safe, affordable, and is a cheap/quick train ride to NYC and Hoboken. Those are my priorities at the moment.

[rgwp96]

Agree Tim. I'd argue Holmdel is the best town in the county for snow - you've got 200-400ft hills, good positioning NW in the county and close enough to the Bay for some enhancement. I know this discussion isn't about lifestyle but I also agree it's one of the best towns in the nation for a number of aspects. I'd take Holmdel over ugly Lyndhurst (IMO) any day.

wow you monmouth guys are sensitive, so now you resort to saying the town is a dump? wow not all areas can be snobish like monmouth folks i guess.  Lyndhurst while developed is certainly not that bad at all.  

[Allsnow]

wow you monmouth guys are sensitive, so now you resort to saying the town is a dump? wow not all areas can be snobish like monmouth folks i guess. Lyndhurst while developed is certainly not that bad at all.

woah hold the bus gus......i live in edison now, in no way are we the pilliar of society. I was just answering the question with snow in mind and a place i would want to raise a family in.

[ORH_wxman]

wow you monmouth guys are sensitive, so now you resort to saying the town is a dump? wow not all areas can be snobish like monmouth folks i guess. Lyndhurst while developed is certainly not that bad at all.

I've often found this is one of the derailing comments that soon comes after the arguing point has been exhausted and the area in question is shown to average more snow than them...its pretty dumb.

I don't understand why people need to get so sensitive about snowfall averages. No matter what we all think in our heads, its not going to change the actual sensible weather one iota. I will stress after doing a ton of snow climo myself, that saying "when I lived here during X decade" really holds very little weight. First off, a decade is not much time. Second, anecdotal evidence can only be used so much, as a lot of it is based on selective memory. I found myself guilty many times of the same offense until I realized that I would sub-consciously "block out" storms that really didn't hit me much but gave Gardner (like 15-20 mi north of me) 4" of paste....they weren't very memorable because I didn't get much at all....yet when I got hammered and some area near me didn't, it was a lot more memorable. Classic selective memory using anecdotal evidence.

But those events where you don't get much but north picks up a modest 2-4" amount....you don't keep them very clear in memory because they sucked for YBY, but by God, they do add up and they matter.

[Absolute Humidity]

No one said it was a dump. But compared to the old growth forests and rolling hills with a spectacular view of NYC over the raritan bay, I'd say yea It could be compared as ugly. But snobbish from holmdel, no, Rumson yes, but not holmdel.

[Isotherm]

No one said it was a dump. But compared to the old growth forests and rolling hills with a spectacular view of NYC over the raritan bay, I'd say yea It could be compared as ugly. But snobbish from holmdel, no, Rumson yes, but not holmdel.

Agree. The only reason I brought it up was to respond to someone else's lifestyle comment about the area; it had nothing to do with bolstering any snowfall argument. I couldn't care less if they average more snow, I was only defending the climo of my local area.

Also, there's a big difference between calling somewhere a "dump", and calling it not as aesthetically pleasing. The former was never said. Don't blow it out of proportion.

[BlueSkiesFading]

Agree. The only reason I brought it up was to respond to someone else's lifestyle comment about the area; it had nothing to do with bolstering any snowfall argument. I couldn't care less if they average more snow, I was only defending the climo of my local area.

Also, there's a big difference between calling somewhere a "dump", and calling it not as aesthetically pleasing. The former was never said. Don't blow it out of proportion.

Calling my town "ugly" is a little harsh . It looks like most other suburban towns in NYC metro, aside from the really rich neighborhoods. The area is a little congested, but I'd love to hear why it's so "ugly".

[gkrangers]

Calling my town "ugly" is a little harsh . It looks like most other suburban towns in NYC metro, aside from the really rich neighborhoods. The area is a little congested, but I'd love to hear why it's so "ugly".

I drove around earlier and thought it was quite nice. Lots of nice looking homes, and the hills are a nice touch. I bet it looks quite nice in the summer.

[Allsnow]

I moved from Holmdel to edison in 05....here is a small sample size of when one area has done better then the other.....Used help from rays site also. Thankyou

Dec 5-6 2005

http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/2006/06-Dec-05.html

Edison had about a inch.

Holmdel 3-4 inches

Kphl got 6

Dec 9th 2005 http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/2006/09-Dec-05.html

Pretty much a bust in monmouth county. WSW ended up with about a inch of slop in holmdel, Remeber talking to my father while i was ripping parchutes, he had sleet and rain in holmdel

Edison 6

Holmdel 1-2

Just north of me really cashed in, very graident tight storm.

Jan 14-15 2006http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/2006/14-Jan-06.html

Rain to snow event

Pretty much got screwed in edison from dry air punch.

Edison had a inch

holmdel 3-4

Jan 28-29 2007 http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/2007/28-Jan-07.html

After a horrible december, a clipper type system effected the area and the pattern changed to colder. With enhancment of the water Holmdel really cashed in. What hurt us was warm temps in the beging of the event which limited accumlation. By the time it started to get below 32 in edison the snow was about to end.

Edison 1-2

Holmdel 4 which stuck to everything with higher elevation

Feb 25 2007

http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/2007/25-Feb-07.html

Ended up being a bust, had 4-8 forcast got about 2 of sloppy snow before it went to rain.

Dc did really well with this in the morning.

Plowed snow in edison, while holmdel got nada

Edison 2

holmdel less then a inch

Dec 15 2007

Had a heavy dome of artic air, while a storm cut to our west. Sne really cashed in on this event.

Plowed snow in edison, nada in holmdel

Edison 2 of slop

Holmdel nada.

Feb 12-13 2008

Another storm cut to our west edison ended up getting 2 inches before the change to heavy rain.

Pushed 2 inches of slop. Holmdel was mainly sleet/ice

Edison 2

Holmdel slop

Feb 22nd 2008 pretty much good in both towns.

http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/2008/22-Feb-08.html

Further north got better accumlations.

December 19th 2008

Had about 2-4 in edison before a change to sleet/rain, Low went very close to phl had them a 33 and rain the whole event

Holmdel ended up with i think a inch of slush.

Furth north got 4-6 amounts

Febuary 2-4 2009

http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/2009/03-Feb-09.html

Clipper which gave holmdel enhancement.

Did limited plowing in edison, none north of that. Had about 4 on my driveway, in north edison they had about 1-2 ont he pavement. Holmdel cashed in real good with enhancement, picking up 5-6

This was the storm Phl had 8 fromt hat random band of snow later in the evening

Edison 3-4

Holmdel 5-6

2009-2010 we pretty much know the story this whole winter...further south bigger amounts except for the 2-26-2010 event

http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/2010/19-Dec-09.html

http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/2010/06-Feb-10.html

http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/2010/06-Feb-10.html everyone did pretty well in this storm

http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/2010/25-Feb-10.html North jersey really cashed in

[rgwp96]

Agree. The only reason I brought it up was to respond to someone else's lifestyle comment about the area; it had nothing to do with bolstering any snowfall argument. I couldn't care less if they average more snow, I was only defending the climo of my local area.

Also, there's a big difference between calling somewhere a "dump", and calling it not as aesthetically pleasing. The former was never said. Don't blow it out of proportion.

please we knew where you were going here, you are young we will forgive you lol

[rgwp96]

I moved from Holmdel to edison in 05....here is a small sample size of when one area has done better then the other.....Used help from rays site also. Thankyou

Dec 5-6 2005

http://www.njfreeway.../06-Dec-05.html

Edison had about a inch.

Holmdel 3-4 inches

Kphl got 6

Dec 9th 2005 http://www.njfreeway.../09-Dec-05.html

Pretty much a bust in monmouth county. WSW ended up with about a inch of slop in holmdel, Remeber talking to my father while i was ripping parchutes, he had sleet and rain in holmdel

Edison 6

Holmdel 1-2

Just north of me really cashed in, very graident tight storm.

Jan 14-15 2006http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/2006/14-Jan-06.html

Rain to snow event

Pretty much got screwed in edison from dry air punch.

Edison had a inch

holmdel 3-4

Jan 28-29 2007 http://www.njfreeway.../28-Jan-07.html

After a horrible december, a clipper type system effected the area and the pattern changed to colder. With enhancment of the water Holmdel really cashed in. What hurt us was warm temps in the beging of the event which limited accumlation. By the time it started to get below 32 in edison the snow was about to end.

Edison 1-2

Holmdel 4 which stuck to everything with higher elevation

Feb 25 2007

http://www.njfreeway.../25-Feb-07.html

Ended up being a bust, had 4-8 forcast got about 2 of sloppy snow before it went to rain.

Dc did really well with this in the morning.

Plowed snow in edison, while holmdel got nada

Edison 2

holmdel less then a inch

Dec 15 2007

Had a heavy dome of artic air, while a storm cut to our west. Sne really cashed in on this event.

Plowed snow in edison, nada in holmdel

Edison 2 of slop

Holmdel nada.

Feb 12-13 2008

Another storm cut to our west edison ended up getting 2 inches before the change to heavy rain.

Pushed 2 inches of slop. Holmdel was mainly sleet/ice

Edison 2

Holmdel slop

Feb 22nd 2008 pretty much good in both towns.

http://www.njfreeway.../22-Feb-08.html

Further north got better accumlations.

December 19th 2008

Had about 2-4 in edison before a change to sleet/rain, Low went very close to phl had them a 33 and rain the whole event

Holmdel ended up with i think a inch of slush.

Furth north got 4-6 amounts

Febuary 2-4 2009

http://www.njfreeway.../03-Feb-09.html

Clipper which gave holmdel enhancement.

Did limited plowing in edison, none north of that. Had about 4 on my driveway, in north edison they had about 1-2 ont he pavement. Holmdel cashed in real good with enhancement, picking up 5-6

This was the storm Phl had 8 fromt hat random band of snow later in the evening

Edison 3-4

Holmdel 5-6

2009-2010 we pretty much know the story this whole winter...further south bigger amounts except for the 2-26-2010 event

http://www.njfreeway.../19-Dec-09.html

http://www.njfreeway.../06-Feb-10.html

http://www.njfreeway.../06-Feb-10.html everyone did pretty well in  this storm

http://www.njfreeway.../25-Feb-10.html North jersey really cashed in

rays site is great and all but he leaves out storms if trenton doesnt get any. so im sure there were a few others that nothern areas got that trenton and holmdel did not

[Isotherm]

Calling my town "ugly" is a little harsh . It looks like most other suburban towns in NYC metro, aside from the really rich neighborhoods. The area is a little congested, but I'd love to hear why it's so "ugly".

I apologize for the comment if it came across that way. What I meant was I prefer a more rural look to a town, It wasn't a shot at your town specifically. Some people love cities and think the more country look is ugly. I don't really care, everyone's entitled to their opinion.

[Allsnow]

rays site is great and all but he leaves out storms if trenton doesnt get any. so im sure there were a few others that nothern areas got that trenton and holmdel did not

Dec 19th 2008 was not on there......And from 2005 thats every event i have plowed in edison where holmdel has not.......There was a storm last december 15-16(i think) which gave you a few inches....but i dont think lyndhurst got much....There is not many other since 2005 i can recall...and i like to think i have a great memory......Since 2005 i would have to say its been a push.....2009-2010 having the biggest gradient.....

Edit also dec 15th 2007 was not on rays site......so i will def bet i only missed one at at most 2

[Isotherm]

Dec 19th 2008 was not on there......And from 2005 thats every event i have plowed in edison where holmdel has not.......There was a storm last december 15-16(i think) which gave you a few inches....but i dont think lyndhurst got much....There is not many other since 2005 i can recall...and i like to think i have a great memory......Since 2005 i would have to say its been a push.....2009-2010 having the biggest gradient.....

Yeah Tim, if I remember correctly Dec 19th 2008 produced about 1.5-2.0" in our area, with folks just to the north getting a 3-6" event.

[Absolute Humidity]

Dec 19th 2008 was not on there......And from 2005 thats every event i have plowed in edison where holmdel has not.......There was a storm last december 15-16(i think) which gave you a few inches....but i dont think lyndhurst got much....There is not many other since 2005 i can recall...and i like to think i have a great memory......Since 2005 i would have to say its been a push.....2009-2010 having the biggest gradient.....

Edit also dec 15th 2007 was not on rays site......so i will def bet i only missed one at at most 2

How about March 3 2009? Trenton and Edison and north and east were 3 - 5" Holmdel on south and east were 12" +. That was a true Jersey coast special.

[Allsnow]

How about March 3 2009? Trenton and Edison and north and east were 3 - 5" Holmdel on south and east were 12" +. That was a true Jersey coast special.

Yes...i believe PHL got 8.......i dont think that storm was nessary location, more to the point of where the better banding set-up.......Holmdel had 12 and edison had 5.......I choose to leave it out, because i thought it was more due to banding

[Sundog]

Yes...i believe PHL got 8.......i dont think that storm was nessary location, more to the point of where the better banding set-up.......Holmdel had 12 and edison had 5.......I choose to leave it out, because i thought it was more due to banding

It was in fact banding; the NYC area which is even more north and east received around 10 inches or a little more. There was a weak strip in the shield in and around northeast New Jersey. I remember Earthlight being pissed lol.

[Allsnow]

It was in fact banding; the NYC area which is even more north and east received around 10 inches or a little more. There was a weak strip in the shield in and around northeast New Jersey. I remember Earthlight being pissed lol.

Lol...yes sur. I just wanted to be unbias as i could have been from my memory and off rays site. If someone held a gun to my head i would say there is not enough of a diff in lynhurst and holmdel for snowfall that would make a diff for a snowlover. I feel like it comparing kttn and kphl .

[Isotherm]

Lol...yes sur. I just wanted to be unbias as i could have been from my memory and off rays site. If someone held a gun to my head i would say there is not enough of a diff in lynhurst and holmdel for snowfall that would make a diff for a snowlover. I feel like it comparing kttn and kphl .

I would think Lyndhurst averages the same as Newark, since the towns are within a 10 minute drive from each other. And I know the difference between here and Newark is virtually nil.

[BlueSkiesFading]

I would think Lyndhurst averages the same as Newark, since the towns are within a 10 minute drive from each other. And I know the difference between here and Newark is virtually nil.

We do slightly better that KEWR; specifically in borderline events, but the difference is minimal over the long haul. I'd say we average about 30" of snow per year.

[CooL]

We do slightly better that KEWR; specifically in borderline events, but the difference is minimal over the long haul. I'd say we average about 30" of snow per year.

Yes we do, Newark is always 1-2 degrees warmer and that could mean the world during a snowstorm...The difference tho is very minimal.. However Newark usually does better than nyc.

[Absolute Humidity]

Yes...i believe PHL got 8.......i dont think that storm was nessary location, more to the point of where the better banding set-up.......Holmdel had 12 and edison had 5.......I choose to leave it out, because i thought it was more due to banding

True, also there was a wicked gravity wave during that event with Monmouth and N Ocean on the receiving side of it's enhanced lift.

[masomenos]

I have family that lives in Colts Neck and I'll say my area averages a good 10" more every season. Snow totals from the big nor'easters are usually very similar, but northern NJ tends to get more nickel and dime events and squeezes out a bit more snow in the borderline temperature situations...especially in nina years when we get a lot of s/w flow events.

[Isotherm]

We do slightly better that KEWR; specifically in borderline events, but the difference is minimal over the long haul. I'd say we average about 30" of snow per year.

Yeah that sounds reasonable. As I said I expect that natives of a town know their local climo better than anyone else. So I think we've come to a consensus that Lyndhurst is probably slightly better than this area on average, a difference of 2-3" is about right.

[Isotherm]

I have family that lives in Colts Neck and I'll say my area averages a good 10" more every season. Snow totals from the big nor'easters are usually very similar, but northern NJ tends to get more nickel and dime events and squeezes out a bit more snow in the borderline temperature situations...especially in nina years when we get a lot of s/w flow events.

Well you live up in northern Bergen County, quite a bit NW of both NYC and Lyndhurst. So I'd imagine your average is closer to 35-36".

[masomenos]

Well you live up in northern Bergen County, quite a bit NW of both NYC and Lyndhurst. So I'd imagine your average is closer to 35-36".

35 is about right.

I'm in eastern Bergen Country, so there tends to be little difference from what I get and southern Bergen County gets. From what I've observed over the years, there's definitely a snowfall increase when you get north of I-78 and another increase when you get to I-80. The gradient is much greater from east to west than it is south to north, though. Points around and just west of 287 do much better than my area.