tombo82685 Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Ok, thanks for the advice! I'll just overseed once the aeration is done and see how that goes. Some areas have been completely torched by the drought and are going to require a bit of work. do you bag your clippings or mulch your leaves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombo82685 Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Tom, have you ever used a dethatching blade? I was planning on having the lawn aerated and/or dethatched at the end of this season. Would it be worth the ~$20 to do the dethatching part myself? I came across it in Lowe's the other day and had honestly never seen one before... no i have not...give it a go, see how it works. For 20 bucks its worth it cause you are going to pay a lot more if you get a company in to do it. What type of grass do you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 do you bag your clippings or mulch your leaves? I don't have many leaves yet since I live in a new construction house and the tree's are young. I have a mulching mower, so I use that for everything right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombo82685 Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 I don't have many leaves yet since I live in a new construction house and the tree's are young. I have a mulching mower, so I use that for everything right now. I see well simple way to add omatt to your soil is to not bag anything clipping or leaves or what not. The microbes will break that down and turn it into omatt. Make sure when you mow to not let the grass to high..like i mow my yard in spring everyother day cause how fast its growing. Follow the 1/3 rule of mowing. Also take a soil test jusy because you have clay doesnt mean its bad soil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I see well simple way to add omatt to your soil is to not bag anything clipping or leaves or what not. The microbes will break that down and turn it into omatt. Make sure when you mow to not let the grass to high..like i mow my yard in spring everyother day cause how fast its growing. Follow the 1/3 rule of mowing. Also take a soil test jusy because you have clay doesnt mean its bad soil. Taking a soil test is something that I have been meaning to do. Most of the problem is that since it is new construction, they stripped away all the nice topsoil and just left the clay. It used to be a farm, so presumably, it is descent soil. I think what I will do now is have the guys come in to dethatch and aerate, then I'll put overseed and put down some starter fertilizer to help it along. Gotta remember this year to put down the winterizer, big mistake not using that last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGorse Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Well after mowing my lawn yesterday, I would have never guessed it was nearlly all brown about a month ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazwoper Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Taking a soil test is something that I have been meaning to do. Most of the problem is that since it is new construction, they stripped away all the nice topsoil and just left the clay. It used to be a farm, so presumably, it is descent soil. I think what I will do now is have the guys come in to dethatch and aerate, then I'll put overseed and put down some starter fertilizer to help it along. Gotta remember this year to put down the winterizer, big mistake not using that last year. I have a new construction home and it has taken a good three years to get the grass in good shape (last years hot termps and red thread didn't help). Since we have had such a wet August the lawn looks the best ever. It will take time, but your new construction lawn will come in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I have a new construction home and it has taken a good three years to get the grass in good shape (last years hot termps and red thread didn't help). Since we have had such a wet August the lawn looks the best ever. It will take time, but your new construction lawn will come in. Good to know that it can be done I think I get too discouraged at the end of each summer when it looks awful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombo82685 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Taking a soil test is something that I have been meaning to do. Most of the problem is that since it is new construction, they stripped away all the nice topsoil and just left the clay. It used to be a farm, so presumably, it is descent soil. I think what I will do now is have the guys come in to dethatch and aerate, then I'll put overseed and put down some starter fertilizer to help it along. Gotta remember this year to put down the winterizer, big mistake not using that last year. what type of grass do you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombo82685 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Well after mowing my lawn yesterday, I would have never guessed it was nearlly all brown about a month ago. yea it may look dead, but its just dormant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 what type of grass do you have? Whatever the developer hydro-sprayed last year. I would imagine some time of fescue/rye mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombo82685 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Whatever the developer hydro-sprayed last year. I would imagine some time of fescue/rye mix. This is what i would do. If you have 50 percent grass or more go with the core aeration and what not. If you have less than 50 percent grass than i would round up everything that is established. Once dead, probably within 2 weeks get your mower and set it to the lowest setting possible and bag it. Then get your guys who are doing the aerations to come in and core aerate everything. Seed wise i would go with a seed mixture that heavily favors bluegrass and tall fescue, with the least amount of ryegrass possible. Once you see some germination put down your starter fert. When they dethatch are they dropping seed down also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossi Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Tombo, I left my lawn to hghi in the summer and went on a 2 week vacation -before I got back we had real heavy rains; it seemed ok but now the grass is layin flat and has turned real brown. Dop I rake out and reseed or will it come back on its own? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombo82685 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Tombo, I left my lawn to hghi in the summer and went on a 2 week vacation -before I got back we had real heavy rains; it seemed ok but now the grass is layin flat and has turned real brown. Dop I rake out and reseed or will it come back on its own? Thanks give it a week or two and see how it responds, give it a shot of fert and see if any green up occurs. It could be wet wilt or disease. If thats the case you will hjave to seed after you wait the two weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossi Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 give it a week or two and see how it responds, give it a shot of fert and see if any green up occurs. It could be wet wilt or disease. If thats the case you will hjave to seed after you wait the two weeks Thanks - should i rake it out or cut real low? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 This is what i would do. If you have 50 percent grass or more go with the core aeration and what not. If you have less than 50 percent grass than i would round up everything that is established. Once dead, probably within 2 weeks get your mower and set it to the lowest setting possible and bag it. Then get your guys who are doing the aerations to come in and core aerate everything. Seed wise i would go with a seed mixture that heavily favors bluegrass and tall fescue, with the least amount of ryegrass possible. Once you see some germination put down your starter fert. When they dethatch are they dropping seed down also? I think I do have about 50% of more grass still in the yard. I really don't want to go through reseeding the whole thing, so I'll try to stick with aeration and overseeding. There are some significant bare spots (where the construction happened), so I am gonna try to regrow it there using some burlap to protect the seeds. I believe they are just going to dethatch and aerate and I will go in afterwords and put the seed down. I'm not actually the one hiring them though. The guy who built our deck this spring is building one down the street as well. He offered to have the guys do my yard while they are out doing another one anyway, so I took him up on the offer. Not knowing for sure what type of grass I have now, should I overseed with the bluegrass and fescue mix or should I go with a starter mix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombo82685 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 I think I do have about 50% of more grass still in the yard. I really don't want to go through reseeding the whole thing, so I'll try to stick with aeration and overseeding. There are some significant bare spots (where the construction happened), so I am gonna try to regrow it there using some burlap to protect the seeds. I believe they are just going to dethatch and aerate and I will go in afterwords and put the seed down. I'm not actually the one hiring them though. The guy who built our deck this spring is building one down the street as well. He offered to have the guys do my yard while they are out doing another one anyway, so I took him up on the offer. Not knowing for sure what type of grass I have now, should I overseed with the bluegrass and fescue mix or should I go with a starter mix? Well if you have 50 percent or more grass you will be fine. is your yard predominately in sun? So you are getting those services for free? or do you have to pay? Honestly, you dont really need to dethatch. The only type of grass that needs it is bluegrass if you have a monostand of that. The other cool season grass types are bunch type grasses, they have no lignon like structures that would aid in thatch. Thats one misconception bout homeowners and landscapers they believe everything aids to thatch Thatch only is obtained from rhizomes and stolons or lignon like objects. Clippings on the soil surface is not thatch.... ill take a picture tomorrow of the thatch and show what it is. But you don't need to do a dethatcher, now if it has a seed hopper with it then i would say go ahead. If you are paying for it tell them to double core aerate ths will help you better because it will help in getting OMATT down into those holes that can decomposes and help modify your soil structure. then just broadcast the seed over your yard and it will fall into the holes and have a nice seed bed. Dethatchers are best for golf greens where true thatch exist. Do you know your sq footage of your yard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Well if you have 50 percent or more grass you will be fine. is your yard predominately in sun? So you are getting those services for free? or do you have to pay? Honestly, you dont really need to dethatch. The only type of grass that needs it is bluegrass if you have a monostand of that. The other cool season grass types are bunch type grasses, they have no lignon like structures that would aid in thatch. Thats one misconception bout homeowners and landscapers they believe everything aids to thatch Thatch only is obtained from rhizomes and stolons or lignon like objects. Clippings on the soil surface is not thatch.... ill take a picture tomorrow of the thatch and show what it is. But you don't need to do a dethatcher, now if it has a seed hopper with it then i would say go ahead. If you are paying for it tell them to double core aerate ths will help you better because it will help in getting OMATT down into those holes that can decomposes and help modify your soil structure. then just broadcast the seed over your yard and it will fall into the holes and have a nice seed bed. Dethatchers are best for golf greens where true thatch exist. Do you know your sq footage of your yard? Interesting information there, thanks! The only reason I thought about dethatching is to remove the rest of the hay/straw that was put down last September and never decomposed. I suppose that it would be taken care of with a double core aeration like you said. I could clean up the rest with a dirt rake if needed. The front yard faces south and with few tree's it gets baked by the sun. The backyard faces north, but it gets direct sun from sun-up until about noon and then some weak sun again in the late afternoon. The backyard seems to fare much better in terms of growth than the front. The total lot is just over 9,000 sq ft, but the house, garden, and driveway take up about 3500 sq ft of it. When I fertilized this spring I used a 5000 sq ft bag and it made it all around with some to spare. I don't think that I am getting the service for free, but I think it will be pretty discounted since the guys are out doing another yard nearby and were asked to do ours as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombo82685 Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 Interesting information there, thanks! The only reason I thought about dethatching is to remove the rest of the hay/straw that was put down last September and never decomposed. I suppose that it would be taken care of with a double core aeration like you said. I could clean up the rest with a dirt rake if needed. The front yard faces south and with few tree's it gets baked by the sun. The backyard faces north, but it gets direct sun from sun-up until about noon and then some weak sun again in the late afternoon. The backyard seems to fare much better in terms of growth than the front. The total lot is just over 9,000 sq ft, but the house, garden, and driveway take up about 3500 sq ft of it. When I fertilized this spring I used a 5000 sq ft bag and it made it all around with some to spare. I don't think that I am getting the service for free, but I think it will be pretty discounted since the guys are out doing another yard nearby and were asked to do ours as well. when you do the front go with bluegrass and tall fescue mix with a tiny bit of rye. For the front make sure that the percent of tall fescue is the most since it bakes. Tall fescue has the deepest root structure of all cool season grasses and is best adapted to drought like conditions. You deff want bluegrass in their also because that will heal the quickest coming out of a drought with its rhizome structure. I would say like a percentage of 50-55% tall fescue 35-40% bluegrass and 5% rye mix... you dont want to much ryegrass because, first off it will take over because it comes up within a week while the others take 2 weeks. So while you may have a quick establishment, in the end its not the best turf for the area. Also, ryegrass gets hammered with turf diseases. s that falls in it will get broken down you can also just seed to over it like i mentioned above. Is the hay laying on the surface that can be raked? ess if it doesnt decompose. This may be pricey but it works great its called penn mulch. Its an organic like mulch that looks like rat posion lol. But the purpose of it is to keep the seeds wet it retains water and expands. It also has like a 2-6-2 or 1-3-1 analysis to help. It decomposes easily while hay doesn't Only niche may be the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 when you do the front go with bluegrass and tall fescue mix with a tiny bit of rye. For the front make sure that the percent of tall fescue is the most since it bakes. Tall fescue has the deepest root structure of all cool season grasses and is best adapted to drought like conditions. You deff want bluegrass in their also because that will heal the quickest coming out of a drought with its rhizome structure. I would say like a percentage of 50-55% tall fescue 35-40% bluegrass and 5% rye mix... you dont want to much ryegrass because, first off it will take over because it comes up within a week while the others take 2 weeks. So while you may have a quick establishment, in the end its not the best turf for the area. Also, ryegrass gets hammered with turf diseases. s that falls in it will get broken down you can also just seed to over it like i mentioned above. Is the hay laying on the surface that can be raked? ess if it doesnt decompose. This may be pricey but it works great its called penn mulch. Its an organic like mulch that looks like rat posion lol. But the purpose of it is to keep the seeds wet it retains water and expands. It also has like a 2-6-2 or 1-3-1 analysis to help. It decomposes easily while hay doesn't Only niche may be the price. Some of the hay that is still on the ground is in clumps, so it should be raked away easily, I just haven't put in the effort yet to do most of it. So out of the different Scott's mixes, which do you think would be the best to use to get the combintation of tall fescue, bluegrass, and rye? http://tinyurl.com/3evhr2l Probably the Tall Fescue Mix or the Heat Tolerant Blue Mix? I'll definitely check out the penn mulch if I can find it around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombo82685 Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 Some of the hay that is still on the ground is in clumps, so it should be raked away easily, I just haven't put in the effort yet to do most of it. So out of the different Scott's mixes, which do you think would be the best to use to get the combintation of tall fescue, bluegrass, and rye? http://tinyurl.com/3evhr2l Probably the Tall Fescue Mix or the Heat Tolerant Blue Mix? I'll definitely check out the penn mulch if I can find it around here. this is what i would do, i would just buy a bag of the fescue mix and and a bag of the bluegrass mix and mix the two yourself. Make your own homemade brew. Thats what i did last weekend at my house. If you have a lot of traffic in your area then get something with a little rye. When you make your brew if you decide to, put the same amount of bluegrass in, solely because bluegrass takes longer to germinate than tall fescue. So while you may put ting in the same, you will lose some of that seed because by the time the bluegrass germinates the fescue will have a good head start on it. Its the survival of the fitest. When are they aerating your yard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 this is what i would do, i would just buy a bag of the fescue mix and and a bag of the bluegrass mix and mix the two yourself. Make your own homemade brew. Thats what i did last weekend at my house. If you have a lot of traffic in your area then get something with a little rye. When you make your brew if you decide to, put the same amount of bluegrass in, solely because bluegrass takes longer to germinate than tall fescue. So while you may put ting in the same, you will lose some of that seed because by the time the bluegrass germinates the fescue will have a good head start on it. Its the survival of the fitest. When are they aerating your yard? That sounds like a good plan. I'm not sure when exactly they will be coming to aerate, but I just got off the phone with the guy and he is going to call me back with some numbers on cost. He said they will be overseeding the other yard they are doing and offered to do ours too, but I declined since I want to try the new mix you recommended and I don't want to put down anymore hay I'm thinking they'll be doing the work in about 2 weeks, if I had to make a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombo82685 Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 That sounds like a good plan. I'm not sure when exactly they will be coming to aerate, but I just got off the phone with the guy and he is going to call me back with some numbers on cost. He said they will be overseeding the other yard they are doing and offered to do ours too, but I declined since I want to try the new mix you recommended and I don't want to put down anymore hay I'm thinking they'll be doing the work in about 2 weeks, if I had to make a guess. make sure when you get the seed down you water atleast twice a day, you have to keep seed wet. Once germination has begun apply your starter...then in early october hit it with a good shot of fert...then around thanksgiving, when growth has stopped put your winter fert down..Now i saw you said you had crabgrass, did you put down a pre emerge? If so what and when? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 make sure when you get the seed down you water atleast twice a day, you have to keep seed wet. Once germination has begun apply your starter...then in early october hit it with a good shot of fert...then around thanksgiving, when growth has stopped put your winter fert down..Now i saw you said you had crabgrass, did you put down a pre emerge? If so what and when? Ok, that was actually going to be my next question...the fertilizer. I'm assuming that I use starter fertilizer at germination and again in October, right? I don't even know what a pre emerge is In May I put down the Scotts Turf Builder with Weed Control. That killed most of the broad leaf stuff, but the crab crass came in towards the middle of the summer. I was thinking that I just had to deal with it for the rest of this year and then put down the crab grass preventor next spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombo82685 Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 Ok, that was actually going to be my next question...the fertilizer. I'm assuming that I use starter fertilizer at germination and again in October, right? I don't even know what a pre emerge is In May I put down the Scotts Turf Builder with Weed Control. That killed most of the broad leaf stuff, but the crab crass came in towards the middle of the summer. I was thinking that I just had to deal with it for the rest of this year and then put down the crab grass preventor next spring. One thing on the seeding of your yard. You want to put down the bluegrass by itself on one application, then go back and put down the tall fescue. You will see why when you open the bag of the bluegrass. The seed is very tiny, while tall fescue seed is very large. So if you have the spreader setting set for tall fescue the bluegrass seed will just theoretically fall out. you want to do starter fert as soon as you see the grass sprouting. Then come back in october or after your second mowing of the yard and hit it with a standard fertilizer not starter. Difference between starter and standard fertilizer is that starter has phosphorous as the most abundent particle in the bag. Phosphorous helps in root establishment. The other fertilizer has nitrogen as the most. On the bag is will give an analysis like 14-24-8. The 14 is the nitrogen, 24 phosphorous, 8 potassium. Then in winter time come back with a winter fert that has atleast 50 percent slow release and a good amount of potassium in the analysis. Potassium helps with plant metabolic processes and cold and heat tolerance. Scotts product i believe is Hatz, not sure if you have ever heard of that. Should say crabgrass preventer on it. Sounds like what you put down was broadleaf control. You can buy the scotts program or you can just by dimension or barricade. Though if you want to do a fall seeding dimension would be better, it has a shorter residual of like 4-6 months. the scotts prodcut looks like this for pre emerge. http://www.scotts.co...itemId=cat50044 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 One thing on the seeding of your yard. You want to put down the bluegrass by itself on one application, then go back and put down the tall fescue. You will see why when you open the bag of the bluegrass. The seed is very tiny, while tall fescue seed is very large. So if you have the spreader setting set for tall fescue the bluegrass seed will just theoretically fall out. Scotts product i believe is Hatz, not sure if you have ever heard of that. Should say crabgrass preventer on it. Sounds like what you put down was broadleaf control. You can buy the scotts program or you can just by dimension or barricade. Though if you want to do a fall seeding dimension would be better, it has a shorter residual of like 4-6 months. the scotts prodcut looks like this for pre emerge. http://www.scotts.co...itemId=cat50044 Thanks for the tip about not mixing the bluegrass and the tall fescue, which I probably would have done. Also, thanks again for all of your help and suggestions. I don't know where you acquired this massive amount of grass knowledge, but I'm grateful that you are willing to share it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombo82685 Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 Thanks for the tip about not mixing the bluegrass and the tall fescue, which I probably would have done. Also, thanks again for all of your help and suggestions. I don't know where you acquired this massive amount of grass knowledge, but I'm grateful that you are willing to share it! i added in your question about the fertilizer i forgot to answer that. No problem, its always good to help others out just like you meteorologists do. You share your information to. I have a bach degree in turf management which landed me the job at a golf course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 i added in your question about the fertilizer i forgot to answer that. No problem, its always good to help others out just like you meteorologists do. You share your information to. I have a bach degree in turf management which landed me the job at a golf course. Thanks, that definitely answers my fertilizer questions. One other question. Is it a bad idea to put down the seed before the aeration? It looks like we could get some good long rains starting on monday, which would seem like a good opportunity to put down the seed and allow it to stay moist. However, since I've never had aeration done I don't know how detrimental this would be to the new grass. Still not positive about when the aeration will get done, but it would likely be 1-2 weeks from Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombo82685 Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 Thanks, that definitely answers my fertilizer questions. One other question. Is it a bad idea to put down the seed before the aeration? It looks like we could get some good long rains starting on monday, which would seem like a good opportunity to put down the seed and allow it to stay moist. However, since I've never had aeration done I don't know how detrimental this would be to the new grass. Still not positive about when the aeration will get done, but it would likely be 1-2 weeks from Monday. no i would wait till after the aeration. Plus if you get some hvy rain it will just wash the seed away. All the foot track and machine traffic could also damage the seed thus causing it not to grow. All of september is primetime for seeding. so 2 weeks from now you will still be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 no i would wait till after the aeration. Plus if you get some hvy rain it will just wash the seed away. All the foot track and machine traffic could also damage the seed thus causing it not to grow. All of september is primetime for seeding. so 2 weeks from now you will still be good. awesome thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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