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February 8-12 model discussion


Rankin5150

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What do us folks in central/eastern NC want to happen? Do we simply just want the Canadian vortex to sag further south and be further east?

The guidance has been fairly consistent with the placement of the PV in Canada, somewhere around Coral Harbor, which is at the mouth of the Hudson Bay. Seeing a sig shift with such a strong and established feature at this range is highly unlikely, especially such a shift that would have major implications down here. I do not like where this vort is coming into CONUS, WA state. Normally around here we like to see it enter in ID or MT, and granted that is in the general sense as it is a function of many other elements to get a favorable end result. We want a weaker system at this point, one that does not wrap up as quick and gets shunted OTS before turning north. The fact a general agreement exists on this impacting the MA and NE is not favorable for central and eastern NC from a climo perspective. Not saying it can't impact us and those areas as well, but most times our SN storms skip the MA and sometimes come back to clip N NE. More separation between this vort and the energy coming in on the backside would also be a favorable trend, as the interaction lifts the first piece up instead of out, and bombs the storm. We are still a little less than 7 days out, and having a 95 track at this range means a small shift one way or another will have big implications, since we are not talking an Apps runner, at-least not atm.

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Here is a portion of the AFD from NWS-GSP from Thursday afternoon:

THE ROCKIES SYSTEM WILL LIKELY CARVE OUT INTO AN INCREASINGLY

NEUTRAL TILT SRN STREAM WAVE OVER THE PLAINS ON WED. THE GFS IS

FASTEST TO BRING THIS ENERGY INTO THE FORECAST AREA ON WED

NIGHT...WHILE THE ECM HAS THE BEST SUPPORT ON THU. THE CANADIAN GEM

APPEARS TO BE AN OUTLIER WITH A SW FOUR CORNERS CUTOFF LOW THROUGH

MID WEEK. THE GEFS MEAN IS A GOOD COMPROMISE ON TIMING AND AMPLITUDE

AND THIS CONSENSUS SOLUTION WILL PLACE THE BEST POPS IN THE WED

NIGHT/EARLY THU TIMEFRAME. THICKNESSES APPEAR TO BE COLD ENOUGH FOR

MAINLY SNOW THROUGHOUT...BUT WILL KEEP POPS LIMITED TO THE LOW END

CHANCE RANGE GIVEN THE HIGH UNCERTAINTY ON THE TIMING AND NATURE OF

THE SRN STREAM WAVE.

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GFS is showing a triple phaser. Pretty extreme solution. It happens as a result of the huge ridge and displaced PV.

I don't really see much a sub-tropical jet energy with the 00z gfs... just looks like a very amplified phase of the polar and arctic jet. Either way though its a pretty extreme solution and hard to believe at this time range. It has made me more interested in what the Euro will show though.

Honestly, the only reason why this low stays suppressed is thanks to the first system amplifying so much at around 96 hours. The second system so quickly follows this first feature that the heights don't recover fast enough for the system to become a lakes cutter... will be interesting to see if the Euro shows something similar since it was much weaker with this first impulse.

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Hey bro, do you have time to throw one out there for KCLT? TIA if you can. If not, totally understandable.

KCLT gets nothing verbatim.

http://www.meteor.iastate.edu/~ckarsten/bufkit/data/cobb_gfs/gfs3_kclt.dat

KGSO gets 6.1".

http://www.meteor.iastate.edu/~ckarsten/bufkit/data/cobb_gfs/gfs3_kgso.dat

And KRDU gets 0.7".

http://www.meteor.iastate.edu/~ckarsten/bufkit/data/cobb_gfs/gfs3_krdu.dat

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Well "if" we can get a decent snowpack, the airmass the GFS wants to bring down is every bit as strong, if not stronger, than the one this past week that ravaged the midwest. Basically even though we have a +AO currently, all the cold air is suck in Canada. In fact, the 500mb heights have been the coldest right over the Canadian provinces. This stuff was suck over Siberia most of December and January, but now we have a chance to play with it in North American in February. All we need is a super strong +PNA (check if you believe the 00z GFS) and a powerful shortwave (also check) and it can easily bring down the Polar Vortex far enough south so we get sent to the icebox.

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The positive to a more western track is that it maybe can hit the Asheville area hard. I'm going up to Asheville this weekend and going skiing on Saturday, so I'd love some fresh powder!!! weight_lift.gif

I'm pretty sure the track the 00z run depicts would also mean that Asheville ends up with rain too :(

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Apps runner.

That's what I want for East TN to do well. :)

By the way, KTYS's buffkit is remarkable:

http://www.meteor.iastate.edu/~ckarsten/bufkit/data/cobb_gfs/gfs3_ktys.dat

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

110208/1500Z 111 27003KT 26.8F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

110208/1800Z 114 26003KT 33.3F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

110208/2100Z 117 VRB02KT 34.5F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

110209/0000Z 120 01004KT 28.2F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

110209/0300Z 123 03005KT 27.3F SNOW 14:1| 0.1|| 0.1 0.008|| 0.01 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110209/0600Z 126 04005KT 27.3F SNOW 15:1| 0.3|| 0.4 0.020|| 0.03 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110209/0900Z 129 04005KT 27.5F SNOW 14:1| 0.3|| 0.7 0.024|| 0.05 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110209/1200Z 132 04006KT 27.5F SNOW 11:1| 0.5|| 1.2 0.043|| 0.09 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

110209/1500Z 135 07003KT 30.0F SNOW 18:1| 2.5|| 3.7 0.142|| 0.24 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110209/1800Z 138 VRB02KT 32.9F RASN 0:1| 0.0|| 3.7 0.205|| 0.44 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 81| 0| 19

110209/2100Z 141 10003KT 34.0F RASN 0:1| 0.0|| 3.7 0.134|| 0.57 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 50| 0| 50

110210/0000Z 144 01004KT 32.4F RASN 0:1| 0.0|| 3.7 0.240|| 0.81 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 86| 0| 14

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

110210/0300Z 147 03004KT 31.6F SNOW 13:1| 4.4|| 8.1 0.327|| 1.14 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110210/0600Z 150 32006KT 28.8F SNOW 17:1| 3.7||11.8 0.224|| 1.37 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110210/0900Z 153 31008KT 20.8F SNOW 23:1| 1.9||13.7 0.083|| 1.45 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110210/1200Z 156 29006KT 14.7F SNOW 33:1| 1.0||14.8 0.031|| 1.48 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

110210/1500Z 159 27007KT 7.7F 0:1| 0.0||14.8 0.000|| 1.48 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

110210/1800Z 162 26009KT 8.8F 0:1| 0.0||14.8 0.000|| 1.48 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

110210/2100Z 165 27010KT 7.2F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

110211/0000Z 168 23007KT 2.5F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

110211/0300Z 171 24007KT -0.4F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

110211/0600Z 174 24007KT -2.9F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

110211/0900Z 177 24006KT -7.2F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

110211/1200Z 180 24005KT -12.3F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

======================================================================================================================

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I'm pretty sure the track the 00z run depicts would also mean that Asheville ends up with rain too :(

On the GFS you get snow and a lot of it:

http://www.meteor.iastate.edu/~ckarsten/bufkit/data/cobb_gfs/gfs3_kavl.dat

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

110209/0300Z 123 34005KT 26.1F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

110209/0600Z 126 34003KT 28.2F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

110209/0900Z 129 12003KT 28.9F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

110209/1200Z 132 13005KT 28.4F SNOW 13:1| 0.1|| 0.1 0.008|| 0.01 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

110209/1500Z 135 13006KT 28.4F SNOW 16:1| 0.3|| 0.4 0.020|| 0.03 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110209/1800Z 138 13006KT 29.1F SNOW 16:1| 0.5|| 0.9 0.031|| 0.06 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110209/2100Z 141 14006KT 27.1F SNOW 19:1| 1.9|| 2.8 0.098|| 0.16 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110210/0000Z 144 14005KT 25.7F SNOW 13:1| 2.7|| 5.5 0.209|| 0.37 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

110210/0300Z 147 06003KT 25.7F SNOW 6:1| 1.6|| 7.1 0.256|| 0.62 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110210/0600Z 150 31005KT 27.3F SNOW 19:1| 5.5||12.6 0.287|| 0.91 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110210/0900Z 153 32009KT 27.3F SNOW 18:1| 1.8||14.4 0.098|| 1.01 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110210/1200Z 156 32014KT 16.5F 0:1| 0.0||14.4 0.000|| 1.01 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

Your winning ticket is the cold air and high ratios.

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On the GFS you get snow and a lot of it:

http://www.meteor.ia...s/gfs3_kavl.dat

Your winning ticket is the cold air and high ratios.

Too bad the gfs is likely full of crap... the track of the low is just not optimal for the amount of cold air it depicts. If the surface low were to track that track, verbatim there would be a lot more WAA than it shows.

I think we've got a better shot at the extreme cold shot than the snow event itself. There's not going to be much bare ground for that air to pass over.

Agreed... The euro gives us prob the coldest readings of the season, although its nowhere near as intense as the GFS. It seems pretty transient too and no -NAO forms. In fact by 240 hours, the southeast ridge is really starting to flex again. Overall, not a good run if you are a snow lover.

2d6lh6r.gif

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